Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

My hope is either that his attempt horrifically backfires in such a fashion that people give up on trying to copy Apeiron, or that he succeeds in such a way that Joe decides that all bets are off and just decides to unleash the beast so to speak. Otherwise, it's kinda like Bakuda/March to me, interesting idea but something I've relatively quickly gotten ready to see dealt with in a permanent way.
 
This is the best twist in this fic up until now. And really, I'd honestly wish Victor to succeed, if his goal wasn't so unrealistic from his supposed point of view. I mean someone as educated as him thinks that he can replicate a brain that he never even looked at, much less scanned? Yeah, that's unlikely. He shouldn't be crazy enough to be one of those types.
Everyone here seems to forget that parahumans, especially parahumans around aperion and especially thinkers, aren't stellar examples of good decision making. Victor is a thinker and blitzed on that dank ass data, expecting him to be rational in his viability assessments is foolhardy
 
Everyone here seems to forget that parahumans, especially parahumans around aperion and especially thinkers, aren't stellar examples of good decision making. Victor is a thinker and blitzed on that dank ass data, expecting him to be rational in his viability assessments is foolhardy
There is stupidity, and then there is looking at a shiny new hammer and deciding it's all you need to recreate a Mona Lisa painting, one that you heard about, but never seen before it got burned in fire. It requires actual madness.
 
Last edited:
Oh man, victor. What is truth gonna take from you?
His Parahuman power and an arm would be ironic

Why is lethe presumed to be the only person on the team with alchemy powers? It seems like the chain of thought to assuming aperion also has the powers would be very easy to find, and would go a little something like this: aperion gives powers->lethe has teachable alchemy powers-> aperion might have taught lethe alchemy
Because they are going at it from a Parahuman perspective. They think the CF is a Cluster Trigger, so the powers are separated, yet some are shared to a minor degree......so Victor is flat out wrong, but it has more to do with The Forge being an out of context power.
You know, this reminds me of the myth of Icarus... Or perhaps Prometheus.

Both didn't end well for the poor protagonist.
Icarus, Prometheus sacrificed his hide for our betterment. Victor is more hubris than helping anyone that isn't him or, to a lesser degree, the Empire.

On how fucked Victor is and how much he's actually missing despite his hubris, I'd like to present this particular FMA oneshot.

Does Victor know what's the atomic structure of a myelin sheath?
He is so fucked it wouldn't be funny......if he wasn't a cocky Nazi that has destroyed countless of lives.

Why are people afraid of Alchemy spreading? The strongest alchemist swallowed "God" or whatever but was still beaten by someone small enough to ride an ant.
Have you seen what people with Alchemy can do? Especially those with a loose moral compass? Let me just say 1 name and everyone who knows will understand my point; ejem, "Shou Tucker".
 
Even if they manage to "patch" alchemy into this cycle, instead of taking at least one cycle to set up shards specialized in alchemy (doubtful they could even do it in 1 cycle if I'm being honest) it's probably going to just be copy and pasting a single alchemical "operation" instead of some kind of unique application of it.
They manage to add new technologies to their tinkertech library every cycle. As long as a shard can provide the necessary COMPREHENSION like it does with tinkertech, it can treat alchemy techniques as a tinker power.
 
They manage to add new technologies to their tinkertech library every cycle. As long as a shard can provide the necessary COMPREHENSION like it does with tinkertech, it can treat alchemy techniques as a tinker power.

Dosnt matter either way. The point of the cycle when it encounters an outside conetxt problem is that the shards communicates with the entity running the cycle and does the job of adding in the arsenal but the cycle is fucked cause eden is dead and scion is depressed so other than copy thinkers/tinkers alchemy and other knowledge aint going to the entities themselves.
 
You have some strange view on life... an average teenage girl is what she is: teenage. Their brain is not fully developed, and teenagers, men and women alike, are known to be sociopathic to a certain level. Some has it worse, some has it better.

A fully grown man supporting nacism is not more stable nor symphatetic. Wehrmacht and SS were judged at Norimbergs trial and when tried to defend themselves that they only followed orders... Well, watch some documentaries or read some books about how it went...
You know I'm talking about Emma from the last chapter, right? And no matter what you say, Victor comes here as less of a sociopath than Emma does.
 
Nope. Big fat NOPE. Why authors of long standing works have tendency to nerf MCs and buff the enemies instead of creating something original?
Huh? Wha'chu talking 'bout Willis? How was anyone nerfed?

Contessa has access to a multiverse and nigh-infinite resources like, let's say alive beings. She could setup a world-spanning alchemy circle in some undeveloped world with a few dozens million people and do her thing without anyone wiser. And most of Cauldron would do it. They have proven themselves to be capable of incredible monstrosities. She can easily make the philosopher stones, work around the equivalent exchange law. Cauldron could create Homunculi with powers FAR beyond The Father...

She could create beings that would make 99% of paras and other human obsolete with ease.

That is why I think Apeiron was just nerfed. He is fighting against unscrupulous assholes, but unknowingly, who will do anything, ANYTHING to get more power.

Oh.

Damn.

Yeah, I worried about the Slaughterhouse 9 using the knowledge and deciding to do evil for evil's sake and imagining the vile things that would come from that. That's just a rounding error next to what the end-justifies-the-means fools at Cauldron could do. And (to my mind) the big problem with alchemy is that it's "science," pure knowledge, previously unknown but now unleashed on the world.

"I'm working with other thinkers who are investigating the effect."

"What?" She barked. "Why would you-"

"It's a safety measure. It is." He repeated, seeing her face. "The effect, it can be discerned, analyzed. People were close, and getting closer every day. Someone was going to solve this. And when they take the credit, they can deal with Apeiron."

Rough translation: "I have released the genie from the bottle, others are already doing early experiments (successfully), and the main price will be Apeiron's wrath. Fortunately, others will take the blame (I hope)."

I don't care as much about Victor as I care about the world. Or perhaps, the chain of 10^(lots) parallel worlds in the parallel dimensional chain that the entities (and Cauldron) have access to.

They are in possession of plenty of Thinkers, they can find geniuses through PtV or like any normal human would, and I mean people with the IQ. Alexandria herself is the best Thinker after Contessa.

They can easily kick off research without much of a problem with nigh-infinite resources and people. They can also easily pool people from other Earths like Aleph. And the Shards will be more than happy to help in the research of something they never met.

Not to say anything what will happen with Tinkers who get access to Transmutation. It's immense power multiplier for them.

Okay, now I understand your original quote. Yeah, that's so much worse than I was thinking of.

I see where you're coming from, but I disagree (on a technicality). Apeiron is still silly levels of overpowered. But this situation is like Superman in a DC world where someone just released internet plans for an antimatter bomb, or a universal solvent, or a magical reality eraser (hmmm, Jack Chalker's Well of Souls?). Apeiron/Superman is still super-powered, but the threat has just ratcheted up by a factor of (brain overload, not-a-number).
 
You know I'm talking about Emma from the last chapter, right? And no matter what you say, Victor comes here as less of a sociopath than Emma does.
Not really. Pretty much the only thing that humanizes Victor here is his relationship with Othala, but that looks so much more problematic under these facts that we know of:

1) To make their relationship work, Victor leaned heavily into his power, making use of multiple relationship skills he stole from other successful couples. Their relationship is literally from the graves of what had been happy relationships.

2) Even if you get past the victimized couples and their circumstances, that still implies a lot about how they would have been otherwise, and there's also this implication that Victor leaning hard to his power could be in a sense, soft-Mastering himself to love her to fulfill his role as a husband. Uber has been shown to have had a similar issue with his own power in trying to understand Zombie March, essentially Mastering himself to be extremely influenced by March in the process, and I imagine this is LR making parallels in regards to the overreliance of Thinkers on their powers.

3) Even if we assume that their love is true, that still does not stop Victor in signing up his wife into things he knows she will not be happy about, as he would proritize forgiveness over permission if necessary. In addition, he is rather willing to put her in danger as a conspirator than have himself be left behind in the Empire's power struggles.

4) And lastly, there's his implied intentions to revive Lena, his former fiance and his wife's dead sister, all without even informing said wife of his plans to know what she feels about it. Adding to that the mentions of guilt and the romantic complications of him apparently having not let go of Lena yet, then yeah, when you add all of that, their relationship seems sweet but it's is Messed Up.

Emma is a mess, but she is just one girl, and in all honesty she just ruined two people's lives - Taylor's, and her own life in chasing Sophia's ideals. But Victor literally works with the power he obtained from a pile of victims he feels absolutely no remorse for, while his relationship with his wife is a complicated mess due to how he has leaned so much on his power for it in addition to his role in the Empire forcing him to put her in harm's way if it achieves his goals.

At least Emma is still haunted by Taylor. Nothing haunts Victor other than the consequences of his actions and his coming hubris tightening around his neck.
 
Alchemy came from Fullmetal Alchemist, and so LordRoustabout uses the percentages given by the source material.
Yes but the source material is wrong. And it's implied that Victor game up with the percentages himself. Usually alchemy isn't bound by logic but full metal alchemist is different. It relies on physics and equivalent exchange. If the formula for the human body (of worm world not anime world ) is wrong then it will only end in failure.

Also the only time resurrection by alchemy was attempted in the anime using the anime formula then it ended in failure. So the argument that the formula is correct because it was in the source material is either wrong or questionable.
 
Oh this utter dipshit. For all his information and understanding, he's about to commit one of the ultimate taboos. Can't wait to see what Truth takes in exchange.
 
It's ironic that half the chapter is Victor taking Ashley's shit because of the prestige her nuker power grants her when he could effectively recreate that power and render her more liability than asset (given her inability to really control her power without Bonesaw's augments and basic personality) by using Alchemy how Scar did.

And while it never seems to work out right trying to get back someone who died, the new creatures created instead can be pretty freaking awesome! Sexy shape shifters, sassy bodybuilders, big old fat guys who like to eat stuff... Well Resurrection seems to work terribly with The alchemist method, creating new all powerful monsters instead that can also be reasoned with is surprisingly easy!
Cauldron and their misguided "build an army" plan says "hello Mr. Tucker".

In fact I think it's more likely that the thinker network Victor's been dealing with is a Cauldron front rather than a Survey front as others have suggested.
 
1) To make their relationship work, Victor leaned heavily into his power, making use of multiple relationship skills he stole from other successful couples. Their relationship is literally from the graves of what had been happy relationships.

2) Even if you get past the victimized couples and their circumstances, that still implies a lot about how they would have been otherwise, and there's also this implication that Victor leaning hard to his power could be in a sense, soft-Mastering himself to love her to fulfill his role as a husband. Uber has been shown to have had a similar issue with his own power in trying to understand Zombie March, essentially Mastering himself to be extremely influenced by March in the process, and I imagine this is LR making parallels in regards to the overreliance of Thinkers on their powers.
Honestly I'm wondering if him stealing the skills to be a good husband or emotional maturity is even working as he seems to think it is. I personally doubt that it does. I think that him stealing those skills does a couple of things, 1 he picks up some positive skills/traits such as the ability to understand his wife and himself plus basic communication skills. 2 random useless tricks and coping mechanisms that don't really apply to him and his relationships. 3 unhealthy and negative coping skills plus malipulitive social skills from seemingly happy and adjusted people who just weren't. Because really how would his shard even know if he wants that random skill and if that coping mechanism is even good. Even if it could would it even care? Plus we know that he doesn't only drain mentally healthy people he has drained random abb gang bangers who I doubt have the best emotional skills. I think that he has just convinced himself that these skills are good when a lot of them really aren't. Then you have to consider that he didn't have the best base to build on with what we know of him pre trigger, he was already involved in the Herren clan and shady business. Then he triggered which means that he was already the type to trigger then got mentally wrecked from tramma. Then the people that he would of first started draining would not be paragons of mental health. Then he spends almost all his time around e88 members who he is subtlely draining and these guys are people that you don't want to copy but he is... Constantly. I don't think Victor really realizes this but he is probably a wreck held together with tape and hopeful wishes. He has just convinced himself that he is fine because of his power. Just like every other parahuman he looks to his power to solve all his problems and it doesn't.
 
Yes but the source material is wrong. And it's implied that Victor game up with the percentages himself. Usually alchemy isn't bound by logic but full metal alchemist is different. It relies on physics and equivalent exchange. If the formula for the human body (of worm world not anime world ) is wrong then it will only end in failure.

Also the only time resurrection by alchemy was attempted in the anime using the anime formula then it ended in failure. So the argument that the formula is correct because it was in the source material is either wrong or questionable.
Dude the video you linked also contained a number of errors going by its comment section, and according to the source material what went wrong isn't their formula, its the fact that they tried to bring back a human soul.

The value of a human soul according to FMA is incalculable and therefore cannot be transmuted, which meant any attempt at bringing back the dead is by its nature violating the law of equivalent exchange that FMA alchemy runs on and is pretty much dead on the water on the get go.

Its not a matter of getting the formula correct, so much as being impossible in the first place.

Also this was known to be a forbidden art long before the Elric brothers tried it, meaning that it was already tried by others.

With one other example being Izumi Curtis and her attempt at bringing back her baby.
 
Last edited:
They are in possession of plenty of Thinkers, they can find geniuses through PtV or like any normal human would, and I mean people with the IQ. Alexandria herself is the best Thinker after Contessa.

They can easily kick off research without much of a problem with nigh-infinite resources and people. They can also easily pool people from other Earths like Aleph. And the Shards will be more than happy to help in the research of something they never met.

Not to say anything what will happen with Tinkers who get access to Transmutation. It's immense power multiplier for them.
It's unclear if any amount of research would be able to replicate Philosopher's Stones and soul alchemy. Every instance of it in the original series can be sourced to Father, an entity summoned from beyond the Gate with extensive knowledge of alchemy. Without him behind the scenes pushing things along it's a much bigger leap from "perfect restructuring of matter" to "if I juice a bunch of people into a ball it'll let me break the otherwise ironclad laws of alchemy".

And even with near-infinite resources, research takes time. The Manhattan Project had an enormous amount of resources thrown at it and still took years. And that was for something people were already pretty sure could be done. Cauldron is starting much farther back than that. Worrying about them developing Philosopher's Stones is like looking at a society that's just discovered chemistry and the concept of molecules and worrying about how long it'll be before they have nukes.
 
Not really. Pretty much the only thing that humanizes Victor here is his relationship with Othala, but that looks so much more problematic under these facts that we know of:

1) To make their relationship work, Victor leaned heavily into his power, making use of multiple relationship skills he stole from other successful couples. Their relationship is literally from the graves of what had been happy relationships.

2) Even if you get past the victimized couples and their circumstances, that still implies a lot about how they would have been otherwise, and there's also this implication that Victor leaning hard to his power could be in a sense, soft-Mastering himself to love her to fulfill his role as a husband. Uber has been shown to have had a similar issue with his own power in trying to understand Zombie March, essentially Mastering himself to be extremely influenced by March in the process, and I imagine this is LR making parallels in regards to the overreliance of Thinkers on their powers.

3) Even if we assume that their love is true, that still does not stop Victor in signing up his wife into things he knows she will not be happy about, as he would proritize forgiveness over permission if necessary. In addition, he is rather willing to put her in danger as a conspirator than have himself be left behind in the Empire's power struggles.

4) And lastly, there's his implied intentions to revive Lena, his former fiance and his wife's dead sister, all without even informing said wife of his plans to know what she feels about it. Adding to that the mentions of guilt and the romantic complications of him apparently having not let go of Lena yet, then yeah, when you add all of that, their relationship seems sweet but it's is Messed Up.

Emma is a mess, but she is just one girl, and in all honesty she just ruined two people's lives - Taylor's, and her own life in chasing Sophia's ideals. But Victor literally works with the power he obtained from a pile of victims he feels absolutely no remorse for, while his relationship with his wife is a complicated mess due to how he has leaned so much on his power for it in addition to his role in the Empire forcing him to put her in harm's way if it achieves his goals.

At least Emma is still haunted by Taylor. Nothing haunts Victor other than the consequences of his actions and his coming hubris tightening around his neck.

There is also that Othala a teenager, let's never forget that :V
 
And the worst of it? Homunculi, when they are born by human transmutation, are painfully fragile. They are existences that could end at any moment until they are provided Philosopher's Stones or souls to maintain their existence. And with Victor likely in no position to fix that problem when he realizes that mistake - if he even survives said mistake to figure it out - the exchange would be the Empire's lynchpin traded for a failed biotinker's experiment.

Would Truth regard the attempted human transmutation as being performed by the human being? Or by the giant bio-crystal supercomputer?

Because FMA lore sometimes has the homunculi being horrible reflections of humanity. I am somewhat terrified about what a monstrous reflection of a Shard might look like.
 
Since the PRT thinks Apeiron is a power tinker, what if they saw the aftermath of an attempted human transmutation and decided that Apeiron had created a trump power as a Trojan Horse, maybe specifically targeting thinkers. The idea that Apeiron would make or have a power to give people enough rope to hang themselves sounds like something the PRT would come up with.
 
Victor and Truth (verycoolname)
I am a huge fan of Full Metal Alchemist Brotherhood, so the latest interlude stuck in my brain. This is what I managed to dislodge.


Victor came to with a gasp. He frantically looked around, but he wasn't in his workshop anymore. He'd attempted to bring back Lena, but something went wrong. That thing hadn't been her. Then, something tore him apart and transported him to this endless white void.

Behind him was a massive set of doors ...no, more like a castle gate. Inscribed on the gate's surface were equations, snippets of poetry, engineering blueprints, anatomical diagrams, and more. It was an eclectic mass, made even worse by the hodgepodge way it covered the gate. It was like someone had cut pieces out of a dozen different textbooks and glued them together at random.

"You chose to steal the skills you have, never working to attain expertise of your own, simply coveting the hard work of others. A child, grasping and demanding things unearned and undeserved."

Victor whipped around to face the mystery speaker. It was a white silhouette, only visible thanks to a black mist that outlined the edges. The proportions were that of an adult male's, but its voice was echoey and oddly genderless. It tilted it's head and smiled. the only visible feature was the widely grinning mouth.

"Did you truly think you'd become superior to your fellow man by stealing their skills? Don't make me laugh!"

Victor glared. The massive grin it sported pissed him off.

"So!? What's wrong with using my powers!? What's wrong with trying to become stronger!? With wanting to be able to stand toe to toe with those monsters!?"

Victor sneered at the ...whatever it was.

"And who are you to judge me!? Do you even have a name, thing?"

Its grin got wider.

"I'm so glad you asked! I am called by many names. One name you might have for me is the world, or you might call me the universe, or perhaps god, or perhaps the truth. I am all, and I am one. So, of course, this also means that I am ...you."

The silhouette pointed at Victor.

"I am the truth of your despair, the inescapable price of your arrogance."

'Truth' seemed to sigh disappointedly.

"And now, it is time to repay the debt you have accrued."

Some hidden instinct made Victor turn around. The towering gate opened up with a creak, revealing the darkness inside. Deep within, a gargantuan grey eye opened up. Victor gasped in horror and tried to flee as dozens of small hands stretched out from the darkness. Then they shot out like lightning and caught hold of Victor's body. He screamed at the silhouette, at Truth.

"I just wanted power! I just wanted to bring her back! What's wrong with that!? What did I do wrong!?"

Truth gazed silently at Victor as he was dragged backwards into the blackness. The Gate of Truth slammed shut behind him with a heavy thud.

"You already knew the answer. You simply rejected it."

~~~~

Max Anders rarely 'sat' when in his identity of Kaiser. He reclined, like a king on his throne. There wasn't much difference aside from posture, but it was an important one. It was a matter of using body language to send a message.

Right now he was slumped in the heavy duty chair. He couldn't bring himself to keep up the act right now.

"...A chunk of his brain is gone. There's no trace of surgery or an exit wound or anything like that, either. It's just missing."

Hookwolf frowned a bit. Kaiser couldn't tell whether he understood what the loss of Victor meant for the Empire. Either way, Hookwolf didn't seem too bothered.

"He gonna live?"

"Othala managed to stabilize him, but she can't regenerate the missing piece. It's a chunk of his cerebellum, so without it..."

"He ain't moving."

Kaiser nodded wordlessly. They stood in silence for a bit. Then Hookwolf reached up to scratch his shoulder and hummed thoughtfully.

"So, he stole knowledge from the Celestial Forge and it broke his brain?"

Kaiser sighed gustily and nodded. From what Othala said, that was a crude but accurate description.

"Probably. We can't let that get out, though."

Hookwolf grunted before turning away.

"Kind of ironic. After all the people whose brains he turned to mush with his power. Now he can't use those skills ever again."

Kaiser glared silently at Hookwolf.

Victor just lay silent and unmoving in the hospital bed.
 
Last edited:
Seeing as this is the jumpdoc linked
View: https://drive.google.com/file/d/12scJZTzS5xdJH4x__vC8CyGWBZAjyvnq

The alchemy being used is the original Manga/Brotherhood version, meaning that to get a homunculus it needs to be made from a philosopher stone, meaning that Human Transmutation would just result in a dying horrible wreck of a body, and not a homunculus in the making.

Basically meaning that unless they figure out how to make a Philosopher stone, only Joe could make a Homunculus.
 
Last edited:
I hope we get to see an interlude from Accord's point of view on this matter.
Because it's self-evident that he's part of that thinker group...
 
Would Joe create a lemon scent thing for Taylor? Because I recently learned that insects like lemon scents and it's more pleasant and humane for the spray (to kill then, like Raid) to be lemon scented. And Taylor uses lots of insects, many of which are just going to die in various ways such as being squashed, burned, crippled etc.

So if Joe knew/thought of this, do you think he'd make a little device that makes an area around Taylor lemon scented (not enough that she could somehow attempt to use it against someone)?
 
There is stupidity, and then there is looking at a shiny new hammer and deciding it's all you need to recreate a Mona Lisa painting, one that you heard about, but never seen before it got burned in fire. It requires actual madness.
My brother in Christ, literally every single cape in the ABB, including Uber and leet was/ is at minimum completely delusional. Being a cape is only something people detached from reality would do. Being a villain even more so. Victor is a nazi, villain and thinker. That he is not actively trying to summon an ancient Aryan spirit into his body is nothing short of amazing, given the triple 7 of "reasons to be completely insane" he has going.
 
Victor picked up a candle and believes he can surpass the sun. What a joke.
Victor: "Of course it works! Received Power is Intensity at the source divided by a factor of Distance. The candle is indeed orders of magnitude weaker than the Sun but that only means I need to hold the Candle really close. Closer. A bit closer still. Maybe a bit more..."
:rofl:

While everyone is focused on Victor and the implications of his involvement with Alchemy (me included), I'm also interested to see that what Blasto was planning to do with fibres in his interlude seems to have worked! A bio-suit capable of changing itself and giving him a boost to power, speed and dexterity. I wonder how this will affect any future creations he will make?
And just in time to test it before Apeiron crashes the shown on "fiber enhancing clothes"...
 
Back
Top