Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)

Did you miss Victors whole cheat equivalent exchange at the end of the chapter? Victor is losing whats most important to him if he tries to bring back Lena, which it looks like he is.
No. I in no way missed it, and I'll thank you to not quote me over asinine 'how did you not see' waffling that putting words in my mouth. Victor is some particular sociopath blend who would willingly give up his current marriage for the return of the woman he actually loved.

People want Victor to get killed by Truth so that he won't be able to spread any more Alchemy around, even though he comments he'll sit back and wait for other people to act up with Alchemy first so Aiperion goes after them first so there's not any point to trying to hope he'll die quickly to Truth because by then it will be too late anyways to put the genie back in the bottle. Which I commented on. It's already too late to do so.
 
Holy shit Victor is going to lose his mind when he realizes the TRUTH.
Hopefully literally.
Also this was a fairly good chapter, the idea of alchemy spreading is frightening but not unreasonable, I can't wait for when Alexandria tries to clap Aperion with it.

Does this go by the first anime where homunculi are failed human transmutation, or the second where homunculi are philosopher stones given life and sin?
God I was already trying to figure out what Victors Second Trigger would result in, and I was seeing elements of Master, Breaker, Trump, and Tinker, specifically Liberation Tinker, Trigger elements (from the lack of recognition, inability to leverage his skills into enough tasks, inferiority compared to other Capes, and inability to right his reputation due to his damaged reputation respectively), possibly to the effect of something like Teacher or Bastard Son, with extra flavor in the form of Pinging off of Othala, being around her in a Cape lifestyle for long periods of time, and The Butcher since if anyone could safely host the previous Butchers it would be him, but losing all of his built up stolen skills could just send him over the edge in a very extreme way.
Did OP ever mention which FMA the skill was from? Cause if it came from Brotherhood, then we'll at most see an already dying body, and probably not even that. It took a whole body plus a leg to reach that result, and I doubt Truth takes the size of the body into consideration so Victor's older body wont help him any.
Even if Othala can't help reverse a sacrifice she can probably help a malformed Homunculus pull itself back together.
Considering the mentions of Othala's sister and Victor's first fiance, possibly but very unlikely. And that outcome might just mean that the Empire self destructs before Joe can even do anything to deal with them.

After all, Victor is basically the Empire's lynchpin. He's the only one holding up the organization with all of its friction and conflicting members, especially at such a trying time. If he ever attempts Human Transmutation and even just gets crippled in the process? That all collapses.

And the worst of it? Homunculi, when they are born by human transmutation, are painfully fragile. They are existences that could end at any moment until they are provided Philosopher's Stones or souls to maintain their existence. And with Victor likely in no position to fix that problem when he realizes that mistake - if he even survives said mistake to figure it out - the exchange would be the Empire's lynchpin traded for a failed biotinker's experiment.
I don't know about that; there are a lot of gang members going around that Victor could render down into Stones.
Do you think Joe will develop something to block alchemy when he finds out other people are using it?
He should be able to put Matrix on the task of messing with tectonic plates.
I mean, shouldn't it work? In worm as long as you create an accurate enough body for the shard to connect to it should work.
Alchemy, FMA Alchemy, can't make life without also making a soul so even if it leaves making the mind up to her Shard it should still take a chunk out of Victor metaphysics-wise.
I give him 12 seconds to live once he's found out. 11.9 of them are joe debating ethics with the clones.
I'd give him about -1^2 seconds to live if Joe works on some temporal stuff before finding out.
Well he is dead. Full stop
He doesn't need to be; in making a whole other body he would presumably learn a decent amount of medical Alchemy and he is in a close personal relationship with a Parahuman healer; it wouldn't be that unusual if he was able to keep himself alive for at least a while.
You know what would be even funnier than victor making a homunculus? If that homonculus got eaten by echinda and we got evil clones of a homonculus. This has such amazing trainwreck potential.
...If a Homunculus is a blank slate upon being first born then would Echidna be able to invert their values to make them "evil" compared to their original? Like they wouldn't have anything to invert.
Ya know I'm betting Truth will see Victors connection to his shard and decide that the mountain sized crystal monster thing is a tasty snack. So if in the unlikely event that Victor Survives his encounter with Truth he might come out the other end powerless and with a now useless brain tumor. Or it could be even worse for him and Othala get's caught up in the transmutation.
It's not like Truth is immune to the Law Of Equivalent Exchange itself though; it can't just take whatever it wants and however much of it that it wants so a Shard, being as large as it is, should be safe enough.
 
No. I in no way missed it, and I'll thank you to not quote me over asinine 'how did you not see' waffling that putting words in my mouth. Victor is some particular sociopath blend who would willingly give up his current marriage for the return of the woman he actually loved.

People want Victor to get killed by Truth so that he won't be able to spread any more Alchemy around, even though he comments he'll sit back and wait for other people to act up with Alchemy first so Aiperion goes after them first so there's not any point to trying to hope he'll die quickly to Truth because by then it will be too late anyways to put the genie back in the bottle. Which I commented on. It's already too late to do so.
Hm, I dunno, that sounds more like you putting words in other people's mouths there, because I don't see anyone actually claiming that Alchemy best be "sealed away", only that such an outcome could be potentially (and very likely) disastrous.
I don't know about that; there are a lot of gang members going around that Victor could render down into Stones.
Oh, I don't doubt that he would if he knew to do so. But the fact that he is casually planning to attempt human transmutation already says quite a lot of his awareness on that cost.
 
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No. I in no way missed it, and I'll thank you to not quote me over asinine 'how did you not see' waffling that putting words in my mouth. Victor is some particular sociopath blend who would willingly give up his current marriage for the return of the woman he actually loved.

People want Victor to get killed by Truth so that he won't be able to spread any more Alchemy around, even though he comments he'll sit back and wait for other people to act up with Alchemy first so Aiperion goes after them first so there's not any point to trying to hope he'll die quickly to Truth because by then it will be too late anyways to put the genie back in the bottle. Which I commented on. It's already too late to do so.
Not everybody is claiming that, some of us are claiming that Victor is an idiot for playing with forces he doesnt understand, which he is. Dont put words in our mouth, its asinine.
 
Kaiser is a symbol. This interlude shows that despite being backbone of the Empire no one would actually listen to Victor. Given that when Kaiser died in canon and command was split between Purity and Hookwolf ultimately causing a fracture, I'd say Kaiser is pretty damn important for E88. Nazis would function even without Victor albeit at significantly reduced efficiency however without Kaiser E88 will fall apart.

The E88 can't survive without Victor, otherwise Kaiser would have thrown Victor under the bus.

there's no guarantee Truth exists in this world

This is FMA Alchemy per fiat (as it come from a perk), metaphysical ruleset include. That means Truth exist, souls exist, the rule of equivalent exchange exist, and so on.
 
This is FMA Alchemy per fiat (as it come from a perk), metaphysical ruleset include. That means Truth exist, souls exist, the rule of equivalent exchange exist, and so on.
Also, it's been confirmed by WoG that Truth exists, and Joe's lifesaving operation after the Ungodly Hour was basically a brush with the Truth with how it so closely edged into human transmutation.
 
Still the effect on the shards themselves will be amazing. The same if the endbringers decide to use FMA powers. And the effect on society.

Still very angry iron (adamantium) king Kong for when Apeiron decide that to stop someone from making stones. Double so for his clones.

This will be 'do this and discover that this is a button to never press'.

Still so many crazy shit. Chimeras. Material science. 'Easy' destruction, people trying clone useful capes. And so on. This certainly has the potential of making a lot of shit until the age of Apeiron truly start.
 
The E88 can't survive without Victor, otherwise Kaiser would have thrown Victor under the bus.
He is not throwing him under the bus because there is no reason to do so. This is not some impending catastrophe in making, and you can easily deal with Hookwolf's complaints by just keeping him and Victor separate. Why would Kaiser do something to Victor when there's no benefit whatsoever. Hell, he DOES throws him under the bus in lite way where he shifts blame on him but also keeps important - but not crucial - asset in hand.

Empire will lose a lot of with Victor's death/exile but it will not collaps. Victor CAN be replaced, its just you need a lot of people and they will cost a lot as well. Let me put it like this: You totally can cross Russia/Australia/USA/Canada/Africa cost to cost in a car. But it would be infinitely more convenient to use a fucking plane.
 
I'm just giggling at how stupid Nemean would have been with Alchemy. Its kinda real funny.

There is a non zero chance that Victor will seek out a biotinker to 'brush up' on his knowledge base. Been waiting for any extra knowledge of the forge to get out and alchemy is a good one.
 
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Empire will lose a lot of with Victor's death/exile but it will not collaps. Victor CAN be replaced, its just you need a lot of people and they will cost a lot as well. Let me put it like this: You totally can cross Russia/Australia/USA/Canada/Africa cost to cost in a car. But it would be infinitely more convenient to use a fucking plane.
That would normally be the case, except considering the circumstances? I imagine the Empire is currently bleeding out in terms of recruits and personnel from all of the events bringing up to this, especially after Apeiron made such a show of power by having people remove gang symbols and the like near the Dead Zone. And the fact that Kaiser is still so reliant on Victor's skills in managing his own people and plugging the holes in his plans after being forced to withdraw him for the most part says quite a lot on the dependency the Empire has on Victor.

It's like losing a kidney. Sure, it's something you could survive from, but certainly it would be fatal if you were already in life-threatening circumstances in the first place. Kaiser cannot lose Victor, that is why he sacrificed so much during the Somer's Rock meeting, because that in itself is saying that all of those costs combined still can't compare to losing Victor, and the sheer amount of liquid cash lost alone is already ridiculous.
 
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Goddamn WOW.
So I start reading the chapter, and am very impressed with the understanding and application of Victor's power, and what this makes him as a person, as well as contextualizing him in the Empire (which very few people do).

And then the bombshell lands.
Ho. Lee. Shieeeeet.
And then the other bombshell lands.
AAAAAaaaaahhhhhh! :D
Why you do this to me T^T

Great job. Looking forward to what comes.



Unleashing his strength and coming up short was an element of any conflict, something that he could accept. It was being deprived of that strength, and in a way that he couldn't fight against that terrified the man.
Ah yes, the classic 'Warriors are afraid of ghosts' - now with a Worm spin.
Makes sense, tbh.


Typos. et al.
PTR response policies
PRT

move with lightning speed or whether titanic blows,
weather

to take on Ashley Stillons case
Stillons'?

It was more than he was happy to
that* he was happy to

Not*

If he'd been on sight
site*

investigated the sight of
site*

not one to be recognized on site
sight* lol ^^

He had the parahuman knowledge, recently acquired, to understand the theories on how resurrection capes functioned, how Bonesaw revival of dead capes, and how Glaistig Uaine summoned her ghosts.
Rephrase.
How Bonesaw revived dead capes?
Bonesaw's revival of dead capes?
Other?

Lethe might control matter and memory. Apeiron might control powers. Lethe information, Fleet speed, and so on
Survey* information
 
Also don't forget that meeting the truth, means that Victor will be able to preform circleless alchemy.

I think he will loss his tong.

I don't know about him losing his parahuman powers, cause I think this will happen after the E88 are disbanded, when Joe stops holding back, but who knows.
 
Also don't forget that meeting the truth, means that Victor will be able to preform circleless alchemy.

I think he will loss his tong.

I don't know about him losing his parahuman powers, cause I think this will happen after the E88 are disbanded, when Joe stops holding back, but who knows.
Honestly, I can only use Doylist logic for it, but to put a timeline on when Victor would be attempting human transmutation, I would give it less than a week. As for why, well if it is something that is foreshadowed, then it would likely occur when it is most dramatic or effective in progressing the plot, and as a member of the Empire, it would make sense that Victor's fall is what precedes that of the Empire. After all, if Victor went and suffered the consequences of meeting Truth after Joe stops holding back and the Empire falls, that would be a rather sad anticlimax of a man already in deep shit, so to speak. And given that we know Joe will stop holding back after dealing with Coil's machinations, and we already have a timeline on how long it will take for Joe to find out about Echidna and Coil's "pet precog". That neatly gives a deadline as to when Victor would attempt it, from a Doylist perspective.

As for why people think he would lose his powers, well it would be Doylist and ironic if the man who steals so many skills of people ended up losing his own power, right? Those who have read Doormaker Dog too would already have an idea of how that outcome would look like too. Knowing Truth's methodology, losing part of his Corona Pollentia would probably do the trick, if Truth doesn't just plain up kill or cripple him. After all, if Victor became a quadraplegic after losing part of his spine, well that too would be rather ironic, now wouldn't it...?
 
No. I in no way missed it, and I'll thank you to not quote me over asinine 'how did you not see' waffling that putting words in my mouth. Victor is some particular sociopath blend who would willingly give up his current marriage for the return of the woman he actually loved.

People want Victor to get killed by Truth so that he won't be able to spread any more Alchemy around, even though he comments he'll sit back and wait for other people to act up with Alchemy first so Aiperion goes after them first so there's not any point to trying to hope he'll die quickly to Truth because by then it will be too late anyways to put the genie back in the bottle. Which I commented on. It's already too late to do so.
With proper manipulation of Aisha shard mass memory removal is possible, the genie can be put back in the bottle.
 
I swear, this is like March all over again.

March/Victor: Behold Apeiron! This power that you have underutilized, ignored and overlooked... I understand it far more than you ever did. Now behold its true power!

Joe: ...No.

March/Victor: No as in?

Joe: No I understood it just fine, you guys are the ones running in blind thinking you know everything. Seriously is this a thinker arrogance thing?

March/Victor: Uh...

Joe: Do you guys just, assume you do everyone's job better than they ever could? That's what it is isn't it? Well, I'm sorry to inform you that the only reason I didn't do what you just did was because it was a terrible, no good, very bad idea.

March/Victor: Uhh...

Joe: See you in 'it's not technically hell'.
 
I swear, this is like March all over again.

Nah. Both are thinkers that got blindsided by Outside Context Problem, but that's the only thing they have in common. March destroyed the call gem because it was her only hope to survive. Victor will attempt human transmutation because he's an idiot drunk on power.

Also Victor is a know-nothing know-it-all that stole everything, while March have legitimate shard/shardspace knowledge she earned the hard way (at the price of her sanity).
 
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Nah. Both are thinkers that got blindsided by Outside Context Problem, but that's the only thing they have in common. March destroyed the call gem because it was her only hope to survive. Victor will attempt human transmutation because he's an idiot drunk on power.

Also Victor is a know-nothing know-it-all that stole everything, while March have legitimate shard/shardspace knowledge she earned the hard way (at the price of her sanity).
To be fair, March was already intending to destroy a call gem - her original threat over Joe's timefrozen duplicate was exactly about that, according to WoG. Joe still did not know it then, but when March was bragging about being able to pop the time bubble, she was essentially stating a claim on the frozen call gem - to which, ironically enough, would have popped the moment she tried doing anything, given that these were cloned from potions that already ran out of time a long time ago.

So in the end, March really was indeed playing with powers that she too did not understand.
 
Nah. Both get blindsided by Outside Context Problem, but that's the only thing they have in common. March destroyed the call gem because it was her only hope to survive. Victor will attempt human transmutation because he's an idiot drunk on power.

Also Victor is a know-nothing know-it-all that stole everything, while March have legitimate shard/shardspace knowledge she earned the hard way. I have a lot more respect for March than for Victor.

I'm more drawing the connection that both had a very basic understanding of what they were trying to pursue, March of shardspace and Victor of transmutation. That understanding was more than anyone else had (baring Apeiron and the Forge), but they still had/have holes in their knowledge that they assumed didn't exist. March's understanding of shardspace was more comprehensive than most, but the gaps in it still would have screwed over her plan even without her near death gamble. For starters even if she'd managed to succeed as planned she didn't know about Scions involvement in shardspace, so he would have come to investigate her success and ruined the whole thing. Similarly Victor doesn't understand the fundamentals of Truths soul exchange program, which is likely what'll come back to bite him.

To use a comparison, it's like Victor and March both got a look at about half a wikipedia article on nuclear powerplant operation. Since this is more than what most people know, combined with thinker arrogance, they are now convinced they are nuclear physics experts. That Apeiron isn't pursing what they are isn't seen as a red flag, but as a sign that they're better than him.

In reality their plan is the equivalent of dumping uranium in heavy water, with the understanding that it will give them 'a lot of power'. The main threat is that there is a major blast radius when their plan 'succeeds'.
 
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Human transmuation? It's not been nice knowing you Victor, but see ya later.
And while it never seems to work out right trying to get back someone who died, the new creatures created instead can be pretty freaking awesome! Sexy shape shifters, sassy bodybuilders, big old fat guys who like to eat stuff... Well Resurrection seems to work terribly with The alchemist method, creating new all powerful monsters instead that can also be reasoned with is surprisingly easy!
 
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