- Pronouns
- They
You're gonna fuck up royally, Victor. You don't understand the Equivalent Exchange law...
Mad cackling
Mad cackling
Brockton's Celestial Forge (Worm/Jumpchain)
- Thread starter LordRoustabout
- Start date
- Location
- That place where I live?
I'm really looking forward to Victor's attempt at resurrection, if only to see his response to a being who legitimately introduces themself with "I am God" asking if Victor considered the value of the human soul.
Because there are implications, in that sort of statement and context.
Because there are implications, in that sort of statement and context.
ExploerTM
Ruin has found you at last!
- Location
- Russia, Perm
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Now we need Omake "Victor obtains ultimate unlimited power by stealing Common Sense"
WildCardFool
A Reaction Pic for nearly every occasion
- Location
- Earth
Honestly my big concern here isn't Victor. He's pretty much confirmed dead. My concern is all of the precogs and Thinkers, interested parties including perhaps the Simurgh, or Contesta for "whatever it takes" Cauldron suddenly getting a bead on Alchemy thanks to Victor not being protected from them like the rest of the CF.
Ignoring even the potential pushback to this all being traced back to the CF and the immensely increased pubic scrutiny and probable push to share those teachings on a mass level (Alchemy and 'all else that's shareable'), there may be a great insinuation formed as to the similarities between Teacher and Joe.
Ignoring even those, and you still have tons of people now knowing that Alchemy exists, and is something anyone can learn, and boy howdy wouldn't you know it but I'd be damned if Victor doesn't keep notes or something somewhere.
Ignoring even the potential pushback to this all being traced back to the CF and the immensely increased pubic scrutiny and probable push to share those teachings on a mass level (Alchemy and 'all else that's shareable'), there may be a great insinuation formed as to the similarities between Teacher and Joe.
Ignoring even those, and you still have tons of people now knowing that Alchemy exists, and is something anyone can learn, and boy howdy wouldn't you know it but I'd be damned if Victor doesn't keep notes or something somewhere.
I'm seeing a lot of stuff on how Victor will be a fool, get Truth'd, etc...but...did you guys not read the chapter? Where he specifically and repeatedly emphasized his skills in self-control, analysis, and reflection? This is not a character to take stupid risks, and while he doesn't know about Truth... there's no guarantee Truth exists in this world, and there's no reason for him to be sending out blind feelers when he already knows identity information is stored somewhere.
As for the lack of development... isn't that part of why he's so obsessed with Alchemy now? With most other skills (barring the apparently rare marital ones) it's quite inefficient to try to train rather then steal. But Alchemy doesn't just offer super-natural power of the very physical sort he's been envious of... it's tied into and can grow with a lot of the other knowledge and skills he has. Which is probably driving both him and his Shard wild to improve and train it himself...which also just further demonstrates his self control considering he can and has put it off to focus on his job, spouse and healthy living.
As for the lack of development... isn't that part of why he's so obsessed with Alchemy now? With most other skills (barring the apparently rare marital ones) it's quite inefficient to try to train rather then steal. But Alchemy doesn't just offer super-natural power of the very physical sort he's been envious of... it's tied into and can grow with a lot of the other knowledge and skills he has. Which is probably driving both him and his Shard wild to improve and train it himself...which also just further demonstrates his self control considering he can and has put it off to focus on his job, spouse and healthy living.
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- Location
- Beyond Beyond the Speed of Light
Pretty sure nobody outside the Celestial Forge should know Tybalt as Tybalt. Great chapter, and I look forward to seeing exactly how bad it gets for Victor when his reach exceeds his grasp.
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- Location
- Philippines
I dunno, the speech about overcoming equivalent exchange when he doesn't even know that it is a law reeks of foreshadowing and that the aforementioned skills is merely a reflection of Uber's errors in overrelying on his power leading to disastrous consequences?
FMA Alchemy is plenty scary. It favors the intelligent but has no arcane requirements. Hypothetically, any living being with a soul and a mind to comprehend can perform alchemy. And though we never really see it done, I have to wonder if you can set up circles for other people. If the alchemist who lays the circle knows what the fuck he's doing, can he then get a layman who doesn't to activate the circle?
Anyways, it's a power that normals can pick up, which might essentially as much as 'double' the 'capes' in 5 years or so if it somehow gets blown wide open. But it won't be that, and not for a long time. It'll be high level Thinkers, Tinkers, and maybe certain Trumps. Alchemy allows for an extreme Shaker ability. True, for the real bullshit Alchemy you gotta pay more than just tectonic movement energy, so people won't go full-on Father and Hohenheim or be making any of the Homunculi... except if their Shards step in, because they could pay that sort of cost, and might be interested enough to come to invest in their Parahuman enough to explore the new data.
And aside from the Shaker / Blaster ratings, there's medical Alchemy, which is real enough that you can make Chimera in FMA without crossing into Truth's territory. Gold toothed doctor made a dozen or so if not low hundreds of human animal chimera. And if he can do that, what stopping a high powered Thinker from making super soldiers? That was what Shou Tucker was being taken in alive for, so they could read him in and get him started on adding another Chimera maker to Gold Tooth and probably others.
And Alchemy isn't just Shaker / Blaster / Changer / Trump powers either, Xerxies Alchemy gives you a fairly potent Thinker power of itself, which even Joe makes plentiful use of, Dragon Vein reading, which gives him something like Lisa-lite ability to read people and Taylor-lite ability to know the environment around himself. True, he's got default super-master tier, but adding that sort of assistance, even when weakened, to an already strong cape?
Imagine Lisa, but if she was actually a super-precise alchemist who had bootleg Taylor localized prescience even harder than she already does. And if she could use Dragon Vein for emotion reading it basically cuts a huge chunk of her power allotment free for everything else. There's a WOG floating around from Wildbow somewhere about how Lisa's power could have also expressed itself as a hyper precise sniper blaster power as an example of alternative power configurations. Lisa would be able to wield something like that with just alchemy.
And the you start getting into Thinkers like Accord. Imagine if he could remake you into someone who fit his aesthetic demands. Or Bonesaw, but without needing tools to do her work. Contessa with Alchemy would of course be the most ludicrously bullshit possible outcome, which if not for Joe's privacy protections would probably have already begun. With Doormaker and Clairvoyant problems to the path would disappear with her stepping through and drawing a card from her rolodex of alchemy circles on cardstock.
Andimmortality longevity isn't beyond FMA alchemy either, assuming you don't touch your soul and just work to de-age your body, hypothetically you should be able to pull it off. There's the possibility of 'Soul Rot' that showed up in the 2006 anime FMA to Dante, who was body snatching people by putting her own soul into their bodies. If Soul Rot is real, then even still you can get up to like 400 years to live (extra) with Dante's bodysnatching (note I don't think this actually WOULD work outside the 2006 anime because it's Truth's territory to try) but the 'refresh your own body' method wouldn't touch Truth's domain and if soul rot isn't real then you could keep going until your brain just started having too many errors too keep it up.
And beyond the Thinkers, there's the Masters. Now, most Masters wouldn't get a load of use out of alchemy at its base, because their powers are about not getting into fights personally at all. But if Heartbreak catches an Alchemist he can force them to make Chimera for him, boom, sudden army better than just taking a load of people under his thrall. But rather than new Masters expanding their threat arsenal, there's the possibility of Alchemy Masters, Thinkers, psychologists, and brain surgeons pulling off Panacea's feared 'love me touch' that she did to Glory Girl through some purely biological means. The extreme precision alchemy grants could be used to mentally fuck somebody up big time with that sort of background, which might in time lead to an outbreak of very difficult to detect alchemy mastering. I'm hesitant to say you could get too precise as a mundane than just fucking with chemical balances and hormones, but the right Thinker or Tinker could absolutely wield that sort of control over biological targets.
Now, it won't be that, because to be that, it'd basically require Aperior uploading everything he knows about Alchemy to the internet, or taking in students en masse like he did to Aisha. Especially with his anti-Thinker stuff. But the Shards are interested. I expect Alchemy WILL get beyond Victor somehow, and I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop with Chen and Aura. Putting the reproducible, transmissible 'natural' powers out there means that eventually other people will try for it. If Victor's Thinker contacts are real, then there's already a small but growing club of aby alchemists out there. And this isn't Amestris, people will be able to pick up Alchemy basics even as normals with enough time. The Thinkers and Tinkers are going to be the real non-Forge Trailblazers but even yet it's still not going to be something that'll show up quickly. Victor himself understands he's a novice and is working slow and steady to prevent preventable foreseen fuckup possibilities.
Anyways, it's a power that normals can pick up, which might essentially as much as 'double' the 'capes' in 5 years or so if it somehow gets blown wide open. But it won't be that, and not for a long time. It'll be high level Thinkers, Tinkers, and maybe certain Trumps. Alchemy allows for an extreme Shaker ability. True, for the real bullshit Alchemy you gotta pay more than just tectonic movement energy, so people won't go full-on Father and Hohenheim or be making any of the Homunculi... except if their Shards step in, because they could pay that sort of cost, and might be interested enough to come to invest in their Parahuman enough to explore the new data.
And aside from the Shaker / Blaster ratings, there's medical Alchemy, which is real enough that you can make Chimera in FMA without crossing into Truth's territory. Gold toothed doctor made a dozen or so if not low hundreds of human animal chimera. And if he can do that, what stopping a high powered Thinker from making super soldiers? That was what Shou Tucker was being taken in alive for, so they could read him in and get him started on adding another Chimera maker to Gold Tooth and probably others.
And Alchemy isn't just Shaker / Blaster / Changer / Trump powers either, Xerxies Alchemy gives you a fairly potent Thinker power of itself, which even Joe makes plentiful use of, Dragon Vein reading, which gives him something like Lisa-lite ability to read people and Taylor-lite ability to know the environment around himself. True, he's got default super-master tier, but adding that sort of assistance, even when weakened, to an already strong cape?
Imagine Lisa, but if she was actually a super-precise alchemist who had bootleg Taylor localized prescience even harder than she already does. And if she could use Dragon Vein for emotion reading it basically cuts a huge chunk of her power allotment free for everything else. There's a WOG floating around from Wildbow somewhere about how Lisa's power could have also expressed itself as a hyper precise sniper blaster power as an example of alternative power configurations. Lisa would be able to wield something like that with just alchemy.
And the you start getting into Thinkers like Accord. Imagine if he could remake you into someone who fit his aesthetic demands. Or Bonesaw, but without needing tools to do her work. Contessa with Alchemy would of course be the most ludicrously bullshit possible outcome, which if not for Joe's privacy protections would probably have already begun. With Doormaker and Clairvoyant problems to the path would disappear with her stepping through and drawing a card from her rolodex of alchemy circles on cardstock.
And
And beyond the Thinkers, there's the Masters. Now, most Masters wouldn't get a load of use out of alchemy at its base, because their powers are about not getting into fights personally at all. But if Heartbreak catches an Alchemist he can force them to make Chimera for him, boom, sudden army better than just taking a load of people under his thrall. But rather than new Masters expanding their threat arsenal, there's the possibility of Alchemy Masters, Thinkers, psychologists, and brain surgeons pulling off Panacea's feared 'love me touch' that she did to Glory Girl through some purely biological means. The extreme precision alchemy grants could be used to mentally fuck somebody up big time with that sort of background, which might in time lead to an outbreak of very difficult to detect alchemy mastering. I'm hesitant to say you could get too precise as a mundane than just fucking with chemical balances and hormones, but the right Thinker or Tinker could absolutely wield that sort of control over biological targets.
Now, it won't be that, because to be that, it'd basically require Aperior uploading everything he knows about Alchemy to the internet, or taking in students en masse like he did to Aisha. Especially with his anti-Thinker stuff. But the Shards are interested. I expect Alchemy WILL get beyond Victor somehow, and I'm still waiting for the other shoe to drop with Chen and Aura. Putting the reproducible, transmissible 'natural' powers out there means that eventually other people will try for it. If Victor's Thinker contacts are real, then there's already a small but growing club of aby alchemists out there. And this isn't Amestris, people will be able to pick up Alchemy basics even as normals with enough time. The Thinkers and Tinkers are going to be the real non-Forge Trailblazers but even yet it's still not going to be something that'll show up quickly. Victor himself understands he's a novice and is working slow and steady to prevent preventable foreseen fuckup possibilities.
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- Pronouns
- He
Did you miss the last sentence?
"Finally, thanks to the art he had gained from Lethe, that he would make his own, he could gain something without losing something of equal value. When the time finally came, the exchange was going to be firmly in his favor."
The first most important rule of alchemy EQUIVALENT EXCHANGE and here he is saying hes gonna do it without giving anything and hes thinking of doing it in reviving someone. Its clear as day dude is gonna fuck up immensely no matter how much heavy lifting does the shard.
- Location
- Philippines
Hm, I just added up the requisite masses of Victor's future homunculus, and though the "liters of ammonia" are rather vague, we are looking at around 60-65 kg of matter here at most. That's certainly too small for a grown adult man at peak fitness, so it all points to Victor intending to revive a healthy adult woman instead.
Yep, I think that is as good as confirmation that he's trying to revive his previous fiance as opposed to making a body for himself at this current stage.
Yep, I think that is as good as confirmation that he's trying to revive his previous fiance as opposed to making a body for himself at this current stage.
ExploerTM
Ruin has found you at last!
- Location
- Russia, Perm
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
It's... really vague in how you interpret it. I see three possible outcomes in implications of him screwing somehow:
1) Rolling nat1 resulits into getting fucked over by The Truth
2) Rolling nat10 produces dead body, empty shell of a human, and results in 2nd trigger
3) Rolling nat20 results in succeeding but paying price, most likely in power resulting in Victor being punished somehow by Kaiser which can range from broke and homeless to Death Would Be Mercy.
Honestly, Lord can do pretty much anything. Shards presents also kinda throws additional layer of chaos into equation
- Location
- Philippines
And all of those are disastrous outcomes for Victor in the end, hence why people are calling him a fool of hubris. The thing is, Victor has pretty much signed his own death warrant by declaring his goals in this interlude, and it's in such a classically parahuman way that it can even be called funny.
Hahahahahaha
I was thinking Shou 'stitch-em-together' Tucker, but this is even better. I will be delighted to see how badly Victor can screw himself over while attempting human transmutation. Especially since he's trying to bring back the dead - which is the aspect that goes spectacularly wrong.
If he'd got a few more scraps of knowledge, maybe he'd realise WHY Lethe has left this well alone...
ExploerTM
Ruin has found you at last!
- Location
- Russia, Perm
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
I mean yeah, I just seeing people pushing for The Truth killing him as the only option.
- Location
- Lynn, MA
- Pronouns
- He/Him/His
Ya know I'm betting Truth will see Victors connection to his shard and decide that the mountain sized crystal monster thing is a tasty snack. So if in the unlikely event that Victor Survives his encounter with Truth he might come out the other end powerless and with a now useless brain tumor. Or it could be even worse for him and Othala get's caught up in the transmutation.
People are pushing for it because they believe that the Thinkers Victor is in internet contact with are all actually Survey bait accounts... which is kind of foolish, to me, because she's not that old. If they were guys he already knew, accounts he already knew of, then Survey is too young to be most of them.
Killing him makes it look like Alchemy itself did it, The Empirer's people won't understand what went wrong, so they'll just think Tictor got himself memetic landmine'd by peering into Aperion's head. Killing Victor, assuming his Thinker club buddies are all Survey, puts the Alchemy genie back in the bottle. Supposedly.
Zakara
Semi-Found Cat
- Location
- Chaldea, Bleached Airspace
Hoo boy. Truth is going to work this dumb motherfucker over even worse than how he dunked on Father. Equivalent Exchange is Truth's law and creed, and he takes a very dim view on cheaters.
Partaking of others' knowledge and using it for his own ends without ever truly understanding the underlying philosophy of Alchemy earned Father an eternal sentence back to Truth's library when he finally got dragged back to the Gate. How do you think he's going to deal with someone who outright robs others of their knowledge and talents, leaving them crippled and drained? Someone who basically steals cheat sheets for tests and thinks that makes him smart?
The spread of basic Alchemy knowledge through these mysterious Thinkers he's supposedly consulting is slightly worrying, but I feel like it's going to be a somewhat self-solving problem if Capes are the ones testing it out. Screwing up even basic transmutations is ridiculously fatal, and the named Alchemists from FMA are freaks of nature for how they do so much and never suffer rebounds.
The Shards adjusting Sechen Ranges for that sweet, sweet Aperion data isn't going to help. I'm predicting multiple incidents of these geniuses trying something new for "Science", and then getting themselves killed. And none of them learn from each other's mistakes because secrecy and masks are the name of the game on Earth Bet.
Partaking of others' knowledge and using it for his own ends without ever truly understanding the underlying philosophy of Alchemy earned Father an eternal sentence back to Truth's library when he finally got dragged back to the Gate. How do you think he's going to deal with someone who outright robs others of their knowledge and talents, leaving them crippled and drained? Someone who basically steals cheat sheets for tests and thinks that makes him smart?
The spread of basic Alchemy knowledge through these mysterious Thinkers he's supposedly consulting is slightly worrying, but I feel like it's going to be a somewhat self-solving problem if Capes are the ones testing it out. Screwing up even basic transmutations is ridiculously fatal, and the named Alchemists from FMA are freaks of nature for how they do so much and never suffer rebounds.
The Shards adjusting Sechen Ranges for that sweet, sweet Aperion data isn't going to help. I'm predicting multiple incidents of these geniuses trying something new for "Science", and then getting themselves killed. And none of them learn from each other's mistakes because secrecy and masks are the name of the game on Earth Bet.
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- Pronouns
- He
"What could go wrong ?"
- Victor, before attempting human transmutation of his first waifu
Victor think himself immune to the thinkers pitfall. He is not. His shard is just subtler.
Apeiron publicly demonstrated the ability to heal other people, and Lethe didn't, so he think she's lacking the biology knowledge. It's not a bad hypothesis from what he knows.
- Victor, before attempting human transmutation of his first waifu
Victor think himself immune to the thinkers pitfall. He is not. His shard is just subtler.
Apeiron publicly demonstrated the ability to heal other people, and Lethe didn't, so he think she's lacking the biology knowledge. It's not a bad hypothesis from what he knows.
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Gumiho
Reach heaven through violence!
Did you miss Victors whole cheat equivalent exchange at the end of the chapter? Victor is losing whats most important to him if he tries to bring back Lena, which it looks like he is.
Aurora Raven
(Verified Bird)
- Location
- Surrey, UK
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The body is equivalent to the one leg in that sacrifice.
It takes what you value.
Ed wanted to stand on his own two feet -> Leg taken.
Al wanted to be held by his mother -> Whole body taken (rough deal, if I was Truth I would have just taken all his skin and nerve endings).
Izumi wanted to be a mother -> Womb taken.
Mustang wanted to see the better world he was going to create -> Eyes taken.
- Location
- California
What I find interesting is that the prices also work out mass wise. Their teacher lost organs around the mass of a baby, the Elrics' mother was fairly short probably the mass of a tall child and and a leg, the person who lost their sight was only healing a cut carotid artery - equivalent to some optic nerves probably. Since the Truth totally ignored base elements and went straight for flesh to flesh transaction that unless Victor has another person in the circle in there with him it's possible he will straight up not make it.
Somewhat ominous, considering he has a blood relative of the target on hand and seems to be trying to Ed and Al it.
On the other hand with Worm power metaphysics regardless of what may happen to Victor or Othala he might actually get a person out of it since he's got a source for soul stuff and more medical knowledge than Ed and Al.
Well this is going to get messy. Is victor going to possess a suit of armor then? Or more like power armor?