Also, if Rei slips and calls Kaworu a baka, Asuka's gonna have a field day with that. #TsundeRei
She already did. When Kaworu wanted to premanturely opened the "emergency box" Rei shouted: "Are you stupid?" - i.e. "Anta baka?" Which of course kinda is Asuka's phrase.

/the fact that the extinction event mentioned is the permian-triassic
//makes it doubly funny to me
>>>Largest extinction ever by ridiculous margin
>>>96% of all maritime species and >70% of all terrestial species extinct
>>>The Great Dying
>>>"Funny"
 
@Matt R

Well, if we believe the NGE2 game, PWM entities can get tanged as well. That the EVAs and Rei clones are made out of PWM would be a nice explanation how they can even retain shape before the Contact Experiments / before Rei's/Lilith's soul gets implanted, but there may be more to that all. Which would put the idea in doubt that there is a difference between normal matter and PWM bodies in that regard.

If it were that simple, though, it wouldn't seem to make much sense to stockpile clones in order to resurrect Rei (unless they are, in fact, physical components of dummy plugs, and the ability to resurrect Rei via the clones is a side benefit), rather than simply salvaging her soul and reconstituting her directly from LCL. Although I can see two possible explanations: one is that, since canon Rei doesn't want to be resurrected, her soul wouldn't form a body on its own, and needs to be involuntarily stuffed back into a premade body. The other possibility I see is that, given that poor Rei's a bit of a metaphysical kitbash, the results of trying to reconstitute her body directly from her soul in LCL could be... unpredictable. As in, the body could come out as Rei as we know her (on account of her having come to identify that form with herself), could come out as a mini-Lilith (her most recent "natural" form), could come out as an original-form FAR (believed to be the source of Lilith's soul)...

Still, your theory is kinda nice and consistent. Memories are retained by the soul, because the soul's AT Field (re)shapes the body in such a way that the brain has those memories...

My question is, when you put a soul into an already-existing body that's foreign to it, do the memories come along (possibly with some delay as it takes time for the soul to reshape the brain to include the memories), or do memories have to be provided separately? Maybe both -- uploading memories into the body makes them immediately available, but the AT-field may also cause the soul's memories to be manifested into the brain over time or with prompting?

However, @WC-83 clearly was speaking about canon, not A&T. And in canon, well, the only time Rei's memory was uploaded in canon was in fact specifically for the dummy plug system. What's more, WC-83 tried to claim with certainty that this means Rei III doesn't have the emotions of Rei II... when there is nothing speaking for that, and much (namely Rei choosing Shinji over Gendo) speaking against that.

Good point on Rei's memory uploads. While the series mentions Rei's frequent absences from school, the idea that some of those times are to have her memory uploaded does appear to be fanon. We only explicitly see her in the upload tank once.

Also, if Rei slips and calls Kaworu a baka, Asuka's gonna have a field day with that. #TsundeRei

She practically quoted Asuka's "Anta BAKA?" at Kaworu when he tried to open the Emergency Box right in front of her back in 10.5...

EDIT: :ninja:

Rei flushed and almost slapped it out of his hands. "What are you, stupid?! Not right now! Later!"

(If, as we suspect, the box contains glamour shots of Rei as taken by Kensuke, I think if Kaworu opened it in her presence, she'd probably go into an Incandescent Blush hot enough to set off the apartment fire sprinklers...)
 
>>>Largest extinction ever by ridiculous margin
>>>96% of all maritime species and >70% of all terrestial species extinct
>>>The Great Dying
>>>"Funny"

'Funny', because 19 months ago (real time) in my own story Mobile Fighter Evangelion, I out and out stated in-story that ADAM's arrival on Earth resulted in the Permian-Triassic extinction event.

It was like making a reference before it could even be a reference, which is why I found it so amusing.

/not the extinction itself
//silly
 
If it were that simple, though, it wouldn't seem to make much sense to stockpile clones in order to resurrect Rei (unless they are, in fact, physical components of dummy plugs, and the ability to resurrect Rei via the clones is a side benefit),
Hm, good point. And the dummy plug system is a later invention that came way after the Reiquarium, i.e. during the series. Then again... this apparently also doesn't work with humans? That is, once Kaji is shot, you couldn't LCL-ify his body (the only ways we know this even works are super-synch and anti-AT fields, but a corpse has neither synch capabilities nor an AT-Field to begin with) and reconstitute him. Even salvaging his soul and throwing it into LCL, to see what'll happen, seems doubtful to me. In fact, this didn't work with Yui: Yui couldn't be reconstituted from LCL, and Shinji nearly not. In both cases they were unwilling or at least kinda unwilling, of course, so your "Rei wouldn't want to form a body" seems true...

My question is, when you put a soul into an already-existing body that's foreign to it, do the memories come along (possibly with some delay as it takes time for the soul to reshape the brain to include the memories), or do memories have to be provided separately?
Once again, Yui and Kyoko. We often talk about their souls being "in" the EVAs, but it's probably truer to say they ARE EVA-01 and EVA-02, respectively. They got transferred into new bodies, those bodies being EVAs, and yet still retain memories of at the very least their children.

'Funny', because 19 months ago (real time) in my own story Mobile Fighter Evangelion, I out and out stated in-story that ADAM's arrival on Earth resulted in the Permian-Triassic extinction event.
Ah. Well, I don't read MFE :p
*flees from Pen²'s Gundams*
 
Hm, good point. And the dummy plug system is a later invention that came way after the Reiquarium, i.e. during the series. Then again... this apparently also doesn't work with humans? That is, once Kaji is shot, you couldn't LCL-ify his body (the only ways we know this even works are super-synch and anti-AT fields, but a corpse has neither synch capabilities nor an AT-Field to begin with) and reconstitute him. Even salvaging his soul and throwing it into LCL, to see what'll happen, seems doubtful to me. In fact, this didn't work with Yui: Yui couldn't be reconstituted from LCL, and Shinji nearly not. In both cases they were unwilling or at least kinda unwilling, of course, so your "Rei wouldn't want to form a body" seems true...

Yui very much didn't want to come out of the EVA; she was there on purpose, after all. They flat-out couldn't get her soul out of the EVA. Shinji apparently self-reconstituted after the attempt to forcibly salvage him failed because he was happy with Mom at the time. I'm not so sure about the inability of, hypothetically, salvaging Kaji's soul and trying to reconstitute it through LCL -- after all, they salvaged Rei's soul (I and II combined?) after Rei's body had been charred to a crisp in the entry plug, although Rei's soul may be a very special case. In canon, there's nobody with the means to try it (resurrecting Kaji) who would want to, anyway. (Let alone anyone who would want to try to reincarnate Kaji by salvaging his soul into a Rei clone...:o)

Once again, Yui and Kyoko. We often talk about their souls being "in" the EVAs, but it's probably truer to say they ARE EVA-01 and EVA-02, respectively. They got transferred into new bodies, those bodies being EVAs, and yet still retain memories of at the very least their children.

Yes, but their souls are apparently in the EVA's core somehow, rather than being organically manifested into an organism. It's a very unnatural existence -- I don't think their memories are housed in the neurons of the EVA's brain, for example. I don't think the mind, body, and soul relate in quite the same way in that state as compared to in a normal, organic human being. Consider how Yui and Shinji interacted during Shinji's incorporeal month. The soul's form inside EVA is probably closer to that of a disembodied soul, even if it technically has a body in the physical world. (Alarmingly, the closest comparison I can think of for the "disembodied, yet has a body" state is a lich, with the EVA's core as the phylactery... or a Magical Girl and Soul Gem from PMMM.)
 
(Let alone anyone who would want to try to reincarnate Kaji by salvaging his soul into a Rei clone...:o)
Hah! Well, the point of the thought exercise was to see if a dead but soul-salvaged Kaji could be reconstituted from LCL. That I'm unsure about. After all, we don't see anything like it in the show. Plus, this effectively means that everyone with access to Metaphical Biology tech can be immortal, which really shoots "SEELE is doing it for their immortality" down good. Of course, that was already true with the Rei clones.

Yes, but their souls are apparently in the EVA's core somehow, rather than being organically manifested into an organism.
I disagree. That organism is the EVA. It is just that EVAs, in keeping with mythology, have an actual "seat of the soul" - but so do angels, so that isn't unnatural at all. But Yui now IS EVA-01, which can best be seen post-Zeruel. The only reason they can be controlled like robots at all is the armour. Basically, EVAs are living beings subjected by force to a foreign will. So add that to the list of Ritsuko's crimes... ehem. Now, Yui's memories may not be expressed in EVA neurons (though - maybe they are? Who knows. Something has to be in the head of the creature, after all...), but she clearly is in posession of them. Seeing how lucidly she talks in EoE, in full possession of them, in fact. So, even if maybe not in the forms of neurons, the memories do "come along".
 
Soylent Green.


Also, man is the end of the proper series close.
Like, literally a week if they're doing this on Christmas Eve/Day.
 
Soylent Green.


Also, man is the end of the proper series close.
Like, literally a week if they're doing this on Christmas Eve/Day.
The canon timeline doesn't hold here. Stryp has declared it to unrealistically cramped/short.

Plus, even purely in-universe it can be extended if Kaworu just doesn't go down to Terminal Dogma, at least not for a good while...
 
How... unfortunate.

Because you see:
....................................................................................................Now that ain't fair at all... (in all honesty, I haven't seen that because I couldn't access 11.5 because .5's link wasn't working).

Also what is in the box? What can be so good as to prevent Kaworu from going rogue should the call come calling?
 
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The canon timeline doesn't hold here. Stryp has declared it to unrealistically cramped/short.

Plus, even purely in-universe it can be extended if Kaworu just doesn't go down to Terminal Dogma, at least not for a good while...
I know. That's why I said proper series. As in the not-fanfic.

It's funny, reading the Eva wiki timeline page and just seeing how much was crammed into one year. Speaking of, how does everyone think the series would have changed if there was a reasonable time in between attacks? Specifically, I feel a lot of the strained emotions weren't helped by the life or death fights every other week, so what would that mean for the cast?
 
I know. That's why I said proper series. As in the not-fanfic.

It's funny, reading the Eva wiki timeline page and just seeing how much was crammed into one year. Speaking of, how does everyone think the series would have changed if there was a reasonable time in between attacks? Specifically, I feel a lot of the strained emotions weren't helped by the life or death fights every other week, so what would that mean for the cast?
More time to breath most glaringly, thus higher possibility they'll talk about their problems and talk about them more in depth, and develop themselves further than otherwise.

As for the box: a note, a picture of her, and the box plays music (Fly Me To The Moon, Rei Ayanami version to be specific).
 
Hah! Well, the point of the thought exercise was to see if a dead but soul-salvaged Kaji could be reconstituted from LCL. That I'm unsure about. After all, we don't see anything like it in the show. Plus, this effectively means that everyone with access to Metaphical Biology tech can be immortal, which really shoots "SEELE is doing it for their immortality" down good. Of course, that was already true with the Rei clones.

The closest I can think of from the show would be Shinji coming out of Unit-01. Shinji and Asuka returning to mortal form after Instrumentality may have been similar. Then again, in both cases, there were extraordinary circumstances involved -- the EVA in the first, and Instrumentality in the second.

It's probably a matter of semantics whether the ability to be resurrected in this fashion properly counts as immortality -- by that standard, most D&D characters are de facto immortal, at least until old age catches up to them. (Which brings up another question: whether this process could be manipulated to reverse aging.) And it's a very conditional and dependent form of immortality at that; at the very least, someone has to want you back enough to salvage your soul. I think even the SEELE committee recognizes that, in their case, that's a distinctly dubious proposition:evil:.

Then again, if the Dark Eldar can make it work (and in a society as rife with backstabbing as theirs, yet!), maybe SEELE can, too.

I disagree. That organism is the EVA. It is just that EVAs, in keeping with mythology, have an actual "seat of the soul" - but so do angels, so that isn't unnatural at all.

It's unnatural to humans, at least.

But Yui now IS EVA-01, which can best be seen post-Zeruel. The only reason they can be controlled like robots at all is the armour.

Ritsuko refers to the EVA armor as the restraint in the aftermath of Zeruel, yes, but there seems to be more to it than that. The pilot controls the EVA by synchronizing with the resident soul, after all, not the machinery; apparently the entry plug also extends into a cavity bored into the core itself. And the Entry Plug is inserted into an artificial segment of the EVA's spine at the base of the neck, suggesting a physical link to the nervous system as well.

Basically, EVAs are living beings subjected by force to a foreign will. So add that to the list of Ritsuko's crimes... ehem. Now, Yui's memories may not be expressed in EVA neurons (though - maybe they are? Who knows. Something has to be in the head of the creature, after all...), but she clearly is in posession of them. Seeing how lucidly she talks in EoE, in full possession of them, in fact. So, even if maybe not in the forms of neurons, the memories do "come along".

I wasn't questioning whether Yui and Kyoko had their full memories, just whether the soul plays by the same rules with regards to memories and mind while it's absorbed into an EVA as when it's incarnated as a human. And the Angels take a number of forms that seem outright incompatible with any sort of biology of memory storage we're familiar with, so who knows how that part works for them.

As someone said, glamour shots.

At the least, it seems much more likely than, say, underwear. If it were that, she wouldn't just be flushed handing it over to Kaworu; she'd be steaming like a cartoon teakettle.
 
That brings me to my next question:
How... unfortunate.

Because you see:
The first person to make a reference to WHAT'S IN THE BOX gets their head stuffed in a box


He told you this would happen.

I'm going to guess that the contents of the box are nothing any of us are expecting. Strypgia will troll every last one of us. And we'll love him for it.
 
I have communed with the overmind of the entity that is called @Strypgia and I can conclude that the contents of the box are is in fact; the design schematics of the Evangelion units.

It is just that these design schematics are SO SEXY that they will completely turn Kaworu's mind off the Call and make him think thoughts like 'wait that still doesn't make any sense' and 'wait I could have sworn Aeon Entelechy wasn't canon' and 'why are there scorpions everywhere?'.

And when I say that I 'communed' I mean that I stared intensely at his avatar for about a minute before drawing this obvious conclusion.
 
I'm going to guess that the contents of the box are nothing any of us are expecting. Strypgia will troll every last one of us. And we'll love him for it.
This is a definite. Any author (including Stryp) that's keeping a secret and likes dangling a carrot in front of us all will troll us hard. It's fun for them because they can [REDACTED] and also [REDACTED]. Just because they can.

Besides, Stryp is probably planning to [REDACTED].
 
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