So basically it incentivizes us not to piss off our ruling class.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
So basically it incentivizes us not to piss off our ruling class.
We're doing okay for stability. We may or may not lose vassals, but it is very unlikely we will lose actual territory because we've got a Genius martial hero and most of the military power doesn't actually sit with the patricians.
And really, we fight one civil war now or we're playing Romance of the Three Kingdoms and fighting civil wars periodically all the time after this if we distribute land. That is basically what distribute land is about- who controls the territory. If governors can claim that land belongs to their family, not the king or the people as a whole, that is a major goddamn step toward civil war getting a lot easier becaue it is no longer sacriligeous.
It is ABSOLUTELY likely Redshore will effectively go AWOL if we let them distribute land.
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Nope. We are at 2 Stability; we can't really use Restoration meaningfully.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
We shouldn't be doing that ANYWAYS, or at least decrease their power before doing so, but we were content with not only pissing on their wants, but also increasing their power or at least LETTING it increase
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I don't know, remember the factions have their own agendas and not so many actions right now until we give them infrastructure. I'd do Sea Control and still build the warships to be safe.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Yeah we shouldn't do shit like enforce a wage for social underclass when it cuts into their bottom line.
Oirbse
Stars Will Blossom In The Darkness
- Location
- Australia
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Intrigue Mission (Patrician)
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Stallionpen
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X] [Secondary] More Warships
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Harbour Redshore
[X] [King's Agenda] Urban Infrastructure
[X] [Merc] Yes
Avengers Civil War will destroy us, the good things about our civi are our traits towards harmony, respecting the land, wisdom and questioning things and excellence from those at the top.
A civil war will destroy harmony, the war itself could cause environmental damage (PSN) and our weakness will invite our vassals and enemies to mount an attack.
War is not good, it kills friends, family and ends stories...Instead we should push for a golden age or gilded age and try and buy a genius admin with the focus of peacefully removing and shuffling the land later without destroying us because we can't be a perfect meritocracy in the year 1400BC (Which is impossible anyway.)
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Intrigue Mission (Patrician)
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Stallionpen
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X] [Secondary] More Warships
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Harbour Redshore
[X] [King's Agenda] Urban Infrastructure
[X] [Merc] Yes
Avengers Civil War will destroy us, the good things about our civi are our traits towards harmony, respecting the land, wisdom and questioning things and excellence from those at the top.
A civil war will destroy harmony, the war itself could cause environmental damage (PSN) and our weakness will invite our vassals and enemies to mount an attack.
War is not good, it kills friends, family and ends stories...Instead we should push for a golden age or gilded age and try and buy a genius admin with the focus of peacefully removing and shuffling the land later without destroying us because we can't be a perfect meritocracy in the year 1400BC (Which is impossible anyway.)
Going with civil war over issue that will crop up in our elites with no opposition from others every couple of generations simply does not look sustainable to me. We just can't afford to suppress them every time. The only thing that worries me is speed and the fact that we are almost blackmailed into it, but - the crown wasn't threatened with civil war just now. It probably will be in the future if we do nothing with the quest, but so far only we, the players, saw the threats. The crown just heard offers, nothing more. So, will it really make Patricians more willing to go with it?
You know the patricians do not have to fight Alyx. They can auto fail, but they do not have to, which means they can wait for him to be dead then kick of the civil war.
Best way to deal improve faction relations is the balanced agenda, which allows them to pursue actions that fulfill their quests.
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- Location
- Illinois
Literally every faction either supports DL, or is indifferent to it. The players are the only ones against it.
So who exactly is going against Symphony? The Yeomen, Guilds, Traders and Patricians?
Or just us?
I thought about it, but I'm not sure I trust the factions to actually take the second Warship action, and honestly having them build roads or watchtowers or harbors seems pretty good to me.
Let me put the question differently - if we set our factions to Sea Control, what do you imagine doing with the extra Secondary and Guild action?
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Do we even know if our Genius War Hero Poet is even on our side if a civil war comes?
What if he supports the DL?
What if he supports the DL?
- Location
- Hell
Nice fearmongering
We have Division of Powers to specifically stop this from happening. They cannot just take control of the infrastructure or people that other polities control.
The Patricians...who actually started a civil war over it.
We did not do what they wanted, they attacked.
Who exactly is in the wrong here?
I mean, that is what happens when one of our values makes the ruling class unsupressable. *shrugs*.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
Once again
Our side won't fight for communal land ownership. If the Patricians start the Civil War, they will fight against treacherous rebels. Meanwhile, only the Patricians care enough to rebel about this issue, so they will have nobody else.
Pirates. I am pretty sure the traders will take up the quest. One of their desire is warship.
Urban poor, priests, and yeomen will support the king, which means he'll win the war.
The only faction that wants DL is patricians. That is it. Guild and traders are grumpy but want other stuff and if we get them onside within three turns it's not a problem.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
The players do not represent the administration, they represent the cultural zeitgeist.
Also remember this is the patricians throwing a tantrum we forced them to pay their slaves.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
If we have, it's a result of upgrading Arete. He's The Best, so he can't possibly be bad! He must just be really good at some special things that you mere mortals can barely comprehend! (Seriously, that trait must represent huge social pressure to present yourself in the best possible light.)
Nobody's asked the rural poor what they think about giving fancy-pants city dwellers rights over them
Less flippantly, we as the thread have important outside perspective on how damaging the slide toward fragmentation will be and aren't operating under the same personal incentives as the powerful interests in Ymaryn society. We're in a position of perspective from which we can say that we understand why it seems like a good idea to certain in-universe folks, but that those folks are responding to their local incentives in a way that risks screwing the entire civilization.
- Location
- United States
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Intrigue Mission (Patrician)
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Stallionpen
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X] [Secondary] More Warships
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Harbour Redshore
[X] [King's Agenda] Urban Infrastructure
[X] [Merc] Yes
It'seems not like distribute land distributes all of it at once. Ithe was nice not having any private land but as long as most of it is public so it can be used efficiently and infrastructure can be built as needed, it should be fine.
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Intrigue Mission (Patrician)
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Stallionpen
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X] [Secondary] More Warships
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Harbour Redshore
[X] [King's Agenda] Urban Infrastructure
[X] [Merc] Yes
It'seems not like distribute land distributes all of it at once. Ithe was nice not having any private land but as long as most of it is public so it can be used efficiently and infrastructure can be built as needed, it should be fine.
I mean, even the Genius general, who we're expecting to win the war for us thinks DL is a pretty reasonable idea. Not saying he won't fight since I don't think we have any evidence of a king ever balking a vote like that once we've been in position to cast it (As opposed to them taking over a turn), but I have to imagine that will influence how he feels about the whole thing, and how he would handle the fighting and the aftermath.
Wiadi
Uncompromising Radical Leftist
- Location
- Something Clever
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Civil war will potentially damage our traits, you're not wrong. I consider this an acceptable loss, however. This is exactly the sort of entrenchment on the Patricians' part that I predicted some time ago - the sort that will be almost impossible for us to backtrack without shattering outright, because they will use it to become ever more powerful and difficult to dislodge. The inability to suppress them is one step along this path, it will not be the last.
As for the problem of recurrence, I direct you to your own prediction that the war will impact our traits. One of the likely impacts is the loss or alteration of Divinely Glorious Elites, which means further civil wars become unnecessary, even if Distribute Land is raised again as an issue. I'll also remind you that it's not always raised this aggressively; the Patricians have requested it before on a quest that didn't threaten civil war for failure.
May I suggest that you follow me in approval-voting all the viable options that are not Distribute Land? I assume from your vote that your intention is for the same result that would otherwise win to be the result we get, with the exception of any Distribute Land choices; this goal is achieved by approval-voting every other option, whereas no actual mechanic for voting against an option exists.
That doesn't answer my question at all?
Anyways, Traders would certainly work on Warships, but if Patricians go first and do something like building a Harbor, then Traders are left with an undoubled action and no way to finish the quest themselves.
- Location
- Illinois
The king who, for reasons nobody IC can adequately explain, decides to not DL, despite literally everyone thinking it's either a good idea, or don't care?
how is that fearmongering? The west has nearly been taken by the SY just a turn ago, civil wars are destructive and chaotic by nature, and war has never been an inherently good thing for our traits.
Civil wars suck.