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Paths of Civilization

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@Academia Nut What does our king think about a potential civil war with the patricians? How well could it go? Also, what does his son think of the cultural ramifications of the potential civil war?
 
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Sacred Forest
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Blackmouth
[X] [Secondary] More Warships
[X] [Secondary] More Warships x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Harbour Redshore
[X] [King's Agenda] Connection
[X] [Merc] Yes
 
Citino said:
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Sacred Forest
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Blackmouth
[X] [Secondary] More Warships
[X] [Secondary] More Warships x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Harbour Redshore
[X] [King's Agenda] Connection
[X] [Merc] Yes
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Apparently Stallionpen is better than Blackmouth for city threshold math in some unspecified way. Talk to @8bitBob.
 
Citino said:
Yes, giving the priesthood power to fight our ruling class can't possiblt go wrong. I mean, it worked out fine for the last HK King, didn't it?
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Last HK king we know of got elected by the priests.

Anyway we 100% need the priests to beef up at this point. Because the patricians will soon no longer simply be the ruling class of the Ymaryn state, but instead be wanting to be singular heads of their own private domains, and since they'll all be wanting to do it we can't rely on them to check eachother.
 
Glassware said:
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Sacred Forest
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Blackmouth
[X] [Secondary] More Warships
[X] [Secondary] More Warships x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Harbour Redshore
[X] [King's Agenda] Connection
[X] [Merc] Yes

Founding Free Cities in places that make sense, not taking an Intrigue Mission because we have no idea what it'd do and I don't think it's going to be helpful. Instead, ensuring we finish the Trader quest.
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BungieONI said:
Apparently Stallionpen is better than Blackmouth for city threshold math in some unspecified way. Talk to @8bitBob.
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tl;dr: we want at least one Block Housing city that isn't Free. Drags everyone else's EE threshold up.
 
Civil war with genius martial at our side. Then we reform the patricians to make sure their power is non-inheritable while they are too weak and beaten down to argue. Problems solved.
 
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers x2
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X] [Secondary] Support Urban Poor
[X] [Secondary] More Warships
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Stallion Pen
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City - Blackmouth
[X] [Secondary] Launch Intrigue Mission (Patricians)
[X] [Secondary] Launch Intrigue Mission (Patricians) x2
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City - Sacred Shore
[X] [Secondary] No Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] No Distribute Land x2
[X] [Secondary] Proclaim Glory

Alyx junior is actually rather absurdly good at warfare - when he wins the civil war, he can paint the losers as absolute arseholes.

Yeah, we done fucked up and now we need to fight a civil war. There are kingdoms that do that shit all the time. Get over it. The trick now is to win the war, which means placating the non-patricians.
 
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[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Sacred Forest
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Blackmouth
[X] [Secondary] More Warships
[X] [Secondary] More Warships x2
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Harbour Redshore
[X] [King's Agenda] Connection
[X] [Merc] Yes

do remember the Philosopher Kings, Life of Arete combo is why we have iron.
 
Ghostdevil said:
I never argued 1...
2... we would have to do pretty detrimental stuff to offset a trait in which we want everyone to be the best that they can be.
3. I meant what I said in that those that would want to burn the trait is the minority
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I inferred "There is noway were losing the trait" to mean that you viewed it as extremely improbable that we'd even have the ability to do it. If I was mistaken then fair enough, that objection's withdrawn. However, I am willing to do "pretty detrimental stuff" if necessary. As to the third point, your initial question ("who would support you in losing one of our most powerful traits?") had a strong implication of near-unanimity in your perspective; the obvious counterpoint to that is to declare myself a counterexample, as I cannot speak for the collective opinion of the thread like you seem to think you can.
 
Kiba said:
Land ownership is inevitably going to happen sooner or later, but there is a solution, and this thread is not one to bat an eye for painful social reform.
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It's not, not if we actively work to prevent it, which we can, you know, as we see with the concept of martial wealth, which was replaced with personal connections, we can do the same here
And that is not a 'painful social reform', as you try to woefully paint it
It's our ruling class throwing a tantrum and wanting more power then they already have and thus we should respond like a good parent and show them that shit like that is a no go, they want their land and threat with a civil war, well they get their civil war and a threat of death right along with it

ETA50M said:
It is a waste of time since the issue will keep on popping up until a admin hero does it for us. You can kill the entire set of Patricians (lose some of our values) and the next set will want it as well. Even the preists want it if it involved temples as well. In universe the action has widespread support. We will lose some of our values over this hence why AN called it a social break rather than just a civil war.
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Well I suppose then we have to kill them as long until we get a set that actually doesn't want them

Raichu1972 said:
Priests are actually okay with it, so long as it's for religious institutions.

The main problem here, is that no faction actively is against DL.

No one narratively sees any problems with it, so just supplanting the Patricians won't really do anything.
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Here is the thing, I'm aware of this, they however are against the partricians getting the land, so if we actually empower them enough that he partricians can't get their land, then they will have no choice but to suppress the priests politically, which would weaken them enough to make the guild the strongest faction and thus allow us to suppress them
 
Ghostdevil said:
There is noway were losing the trait, even if there was an easy quick way, who would support you in losing one of our most powerful traits?
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I am supporting of downgrading it and not allowing them to blackmail us into fulfilling a Spite Quest. It was fine before. Now it is
BungieONI said:
Its a catch 22 ain't it. Either war now and win and have the war again in a few generations, or do it now and do it again in a few generations.

I personally think destroying the trait is not an option, due to the damage that would happen to our other traits. (Which, to clarify I think would be unrecoverable and make me no longer interested in playing) *shrug*
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Except that is false. We do the war now, so we do not have to do it later. Having all our land under the King stopped us from going into civil war before.
 
Lets just stop being stubborn about this and bite the bullet.

We lasted well over 4000 years without the idea of but we're up against human nature here. It's emotional attachments we're fighting.

Hell, we fucking do it for seats in schools.

Name one classroom without assigned seating that didn't end up with everyone sitting in the same damned seat they always sit in. Because, despite being property of the school in question, it is "Your Spot."

"I live here, I work here, my family has been here for years. This place is mine."


Of course they're fighting us. You'd do the same. You aren't some perfectly rational creature. You're still attached to your childhood home, though someone else lives there.
Some stranger you don't trust with Your yard Your doors Your walls Your windows.
They don't know the days spent here. They don't know the memories made. The sweat and tears you poured into it.

It may be their house. But that's your Home.

I'd fight for my home, I know I would.

If we fight this here, in as little as a hundred years, it'll pop up again.

So yeah, maybe you crush it. For now.

But it'll be back.

Again.

And again.

I'm tired.

I'm just...tired

Aren't you?

[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Support Urban Poor
[X] [Guild Secondary] Build Harbour Redshore
[X] [King's Agenda] Urban Infrastructure
[X] [Merc] Yes
 
We uh, might want to consolidate the free city votes. If the current vote wins, we are going to be making three of them. Unfortunately, the current runner up is support poor.
 
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Blackmouth
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[] [Secondary] More Warships
[X] [Guild Secondary] More Warships

These five are necessary for our quests.

[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Proclaim Glory
These help our Legitimacy/Stability, and make sure the DL goes smoothly.

[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla
Now that we have a higher EE cap, we need the extra stats.

[X] [King's Agenda] Connection
[X] [Merc] Yes
For our agenda, get our Factions working on Harbors, maybe a GP, roads...


EDIT: Subtracted a More Warships; added an EJ. I just realized that we are going to need the Cent, since DL eats Cent.
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
 
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BungieONI said:
Apparently Stallionpen is better than Blackmouth for city threshold math in some unspecified way. Talk to @8bitBob.
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The idea is that we can build a Block Housing in a True City. This would flip it from taking a no Block Housing penalty to getting the Block Housing bonus, and its new high threshold would be inherited by subsequent cities to decide their threshold.
I think someone else was implying that Stallionpen is a religious center though? In which case I agree with the argument that we should only free it if we also free Sacred Forest. So personally I would support either
[] [Secondary] Found Free City Sacred Forest
[] [Secondary] Found Free City Stallion Pen

OR

[] [Secondary] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[] [Secondary] Found Free City Blackmouth

But not a mix. I think we should choose between a lot of cities with freed religious centers or a small number of cities with unfreed religious centers. Though eventually we could do a lot of canal work and build Block Housing in Valleyhome.
 
Please consider holding off on Enforce Justice, guys. We are going to need the Cent room for the roads that our factions inevitably build with the Centralization policy.
 
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