Paths of Civilization

Tetsurou · Dec 4, 2017

Given the social values of the religion, would a boost to RA help discourage the patricians?

BungieONI · Dec 4, 2017

Entropy Engineer said:
So if we're so against the patricians in power why don't we support the urban poor till they grow in power enough to be the dominant power?

Can't do it fast enough in a single turn even with a quadruple main support urban poor.

ctulhuslp · Dec 4, 2017

BungieONI said:
Block housing. I need to double check it though. (Also does aqueducts and baths apparently)

I don't see why Guilds cannot do it with their two actions and power to burn.

Astra Stargazer · Dec 4, 2017

Tetsurou said:
Given the social values of the religion, would a boost to RA help discourage the patricians?

We're already at yellow, we would need academies to boost it further.

BungieONI · Dec 4, 2017

Tetsurou said:
Given the social values of the religion, would a boost to RA help discourage the patricians?

Not really. Or, maybe yes but it would come with whatever is going on in red RA.

sidestory · Dec 4, 2017

So I thought about this, how we might ab able the oppose the patricians anyway at least indirectly,

Since the priests are set against 'disturb land' action we could actively drive our RA into red by doing their quest early & supportting them politically, thus making them a political counterweight that revents us from disturbing land forcing the partricians to suppress them, allowing us to suppress the partricians the following main turn and then build acadmies in order to deal with the priests

@veekie what do you think? viable as an option ?

Kiba · Dec 4, 2017

Entropy Engineer said:
So if we're so against the patricians in power why don't we support the urban poor till they grow in power enough to be the dominant power?

The Urban Poor can never be the dominant faction. They will just split off a faction.

BungieONI · Dec 4, 2017

ctulhuslp said:
I don't see why Guilds cannot do it with their two actions and power to burn.

True. Any alternatives? Spiritual?

Sivantic · Dec 4, 2017

mc2rpg said:
If the mercenaries are somewhere else at least there is no need to worry about the patricians hiring them.

With what, our money? During Civil War?

Entropy Engineer said:
So if we're so against the patricians in power why don't we support the urban poor till they grow in power enough to be the dominant power?

Even if we could, Patricians can just double their power anyway. Only way is to remove the trait.

Falsehaven · Dec 4, 2017

Why did we increase the Life of Arete trait it is our main stratification trait. It is almost pure negative for us at this point we cant afford or need to make more elites, or take cultural, tech, and mysticism actions. The only good bit is the better crits and that is unreliable.

If we distribute land now they will ask for it again in a couple turns and they will have even more power then.

Thomasfoolery · Dec 4, 2017

Sivantic said:
With what, our money? During Civil War?

It's civil war, they'll have seized some state treasuries and other assets.

Ghostdevil · Dec 4, 2017

Sivantic said:
Only way is to remove the trait.

There is noway were losing the trait, even if there was an easy quick way, who would support you in losing one of our most powerful traits?

Wiadi · Dec 4, 2017

[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers x2
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X] [Secondary] Support Urban Poor
[X] [Secondary] More Warships
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Stallion Pen
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City - Blackmouth
[X] [Secondary] Launch Intrigue Mission (Patricians)
[X] [Secondary] Launch Intrigue Mission (Patricians) x2
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City - Sacred Shore
[X] [Secondary] No Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] No Distribute Land x2
[X] [Secondary] Proclaim Glory

Right-o, time to approval vote everything that isn't DL.

mc2rpg · Dec 4, 2017

Sivantic said:
With what, our money? During Civil War?

If they are able to pull together the resources to cause a civil war I would not want to assume they can't hire mercenaries, or convince any if them that they are in the right.

George · Dec 4, 2017

[] [Secondary] Distribute Land
[] [Secondary] Distribute Land x2
[] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers x2
[] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[] [Secondary] Found Free City Blackmouth
[] [Secondary] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[] [Secondary] More Warships
[] [Guild Secondary] More Warships
[] [King's Agenda] Connection
[] [Merc] Yes

E: PrimalShadow makes a good point about needing EE
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Blackmouth
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X] [Secondary] More Warships
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Proclaim Glory
[X] Integrate Colony - Txolla
[X] [Guild Secondary] More Warships
[X] [King's Agenda] Connection
[X] [Merc] Yes

Raichu1972 · Dec 4, 2017

sidestory said:
So I thought about this, how we might ab able the oppose the patricians anyway at least indirectly,

Since the priests are set against 'disturb land' action we could actively drive our RA into red by doing their quest early & supportting them politically, thus making them a political counterweight that revents us from disturbing land forcing the partricians to suppress them, allowing us to suppress the partricians the following main turn and then build acadmies in order to deal with the priests

@veekie what do you think? viable as an option ?

Priests are actually okay with it, so long as it's for religious institutions.

The main problem here, is that no faction actively is against DL.

No one narratively sees any problems with it, so just supplanting the Patricians won't really do anything.

Thomasfoolery · Dec 4, 2017

Falsehaven said:
If we distribute land now they will ask for it again in a couple turns and they will have even more power then.

When we do it now they won't have to ask, they can do it on their own afterwards. It doesn't matter though, we've already lost, we can fight a civil war and compound that loss and make it even more serious or we can save whatever we can and soften the blow as much as possible.

BungieONI · Dec 4, 2017

Falsehaven said:
Why did we increase the Life of Arete trait it is our main stratification trait. It is almost pure negative for us at this point we cant afford or need to make more elites, or take cultural, tech, and mysticism actions. The only good bit is the better crits and that is unreliable.

If we distribute land now they will ask for it again in a couple turns and they will have even more power then.

Its a catch 22 ain't it. Either war now and win and have the war again in a few generations, or do it now and do it again in a few generations.

I personally think destroying the trait is not an option, due to the damage that would happen to our other traits. (Which, to clarify I think would be unrecoverable and make me no longer interested in playing) *shrug*

Wiadi · Dec 4, 2017

Ghostdevil said:
There is noway were losing the trait, even if there was an easy quick way, who would support you in losing one of our most powerful traits?

1) We can lose traits and have done so before.
2) The solution does not need to be easy - indeed, I expect it will be very difficult.
3) Nevertheless, I for one would support burning the trait out entirely, by whatever means necessary.

Citino · Dec 4, 2017

sidestory said:
So I thought about this, how we might ab able the oppose the patricians anyway at least indirectly,

Since the priests are set against 'disturb land' action we could actively drive our RA into red by doing their quest early & supportting them politically, thus making them a political counterweight that revents us from disturbing land forcing the partricians to suppress them, allowing us to suppress the partricians the following main turn and then build acadmies in order to deal with the priests

@veekie what do you think? viable as an option ?

Yes, giving the priesthood power to fight our ruling class can't possiblt go wrong. I mean, it worked out fine for the last HK King, didn't it?

Glassware · Dec 4, 2017

[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] Distribute Land x2
[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Sacred Forest
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Blackmouth
[X] [Sec] Art Patronage
[X] [Secondary] More Warships
[X] [Secondary] Integrate Colony - Txolla
[X] [Guild Secondary] More Warships
[X] [King's Agenda] Sea Control
[X] [Merc] Yes

Founding Free Cities in places that make sense, not taking an Intrigue Mission because we have no idea what it'd do and I don't think it's going to be helpful. Instead, ensuring we finish the Trader quest.

Shard · Dec 4, 2017

[X] [Secondary] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers
[X] [Secondary] Hunt Troublemakers x2
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Lower Valleyhome
[X] [Secondary] Support Urban Poor
[X] [Secondary] More Warships
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City Stallion Pen
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City - Blackmouth
[X] [Secondary] Launch Intrigue Mission (Patricians)
[X] [Secondary] Launch Intrigue Mission (Patricians) x2
[X] [Secondary] Found Free City - Sacred Shore
[X] [Secondary] No Distribute Land
[X] [Secondary] No Distribute Land x2
[X] [Secondary] Proclaim Glory

Wiadi · Dec 4, 2017

BungieONI said:
Its a catch 22 ain't it. Either war now and win and have the war again in a few generations, or do it now and do it again in a few generations.

I personally think destroying the trait is not an option, due to the damage that would happen to our other traits. *shrug*

Okay, even if you're not in favor of destroying the trait entirely, the Storm Ymaryn prove that traits can degrade to lower forms (Pride in Acceptance -> Cosmopolitan Tolerance). Civil war gives us the chance to evolve/devolve the trait in a direction that means this doesn't keep being necessary in future turns.

Thomasfoolery · Dec 4, 2017

BungieONI said:
Its a catch 22 ain't it. Either war now and win and have the war again in a few generations, or do it now and do it again in a few generations.

I don't think we'd see an unequivocal victory even with two geniuses honestly, the western colonies will probably form a bloc with the SY and SI that we wouldn't have the naval power to contest. They'd have to be content with stomping the uprising in the core and lowlands probably.

Ghostdevil · Dec 4, 2017

Wiadi said:
1) We can lose traits and have done so before.
2) The solution does not need to be easy - indeed, I expect it will be very difficult.
3) Nevertheless, I for one would support burning the trait out entirely, by whatever means necessary.

I never argued 1...
2... we would have to do pretty detrimental stuff to offset a trait in which we want everyone to be the best that they can be.
3. I meant what I said in that those that would want to burn the trait is the minority

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