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Paths of Civilization

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Raichu1972 said:
They have enough warriors to fortify the city, and they have farmland around somewhere that they are able to get food from.
From the looks of things they already consolidated to the point that they can protect the city from all comers, but not to the point that they can really proactively engage against aggressors.

They can turtle up and do pretty well, but can't really project any force outside of the city and the nearby sea.
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You know what'd be funny, though very unlikely? They turtle up as hard as the HK and don't poke their noses into anything else for a couple centuries.
 
Raichu1972 said:
They have enough warriors to fortify the city, and they have farmland around somewhere that they are able to get food from.
From the looks of things they already consolidated to the point that they can protect the city from all comers, but not to the point that they can really proactively engage against aggressors.

They can turtle up and do pretty well, but can't really project any force outside of the city and the nearby sea.
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It sounds like we wouldn't be able to take the city anyway, and I am glad we did not.
 
BungieONI said:
You know what'd be funny, though very unlikely? They turtle up as hard as the HK and don't poke their noses into anything else for a couple centuries.
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They could, but it would require them to completely restructure their government from classical mercantile to something else, and would require them basically giving up on the value of the straits entirely.

They could do that, but without the straits boosted trade they wouldn't be able to snowball into the Great Power they once were.
 
Raichu1972 said:
Can you just let it go man?
The votes over, we're not attacking Trelli, it's for the best to start discussion what will come in the future instead of trying to be smug about a past option.
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With the vote going the way I like without any additional effort of my own and my own vote last turn having lost?

Nah, I am going to take my small victories.
Shard said:
Siege Euqipment do not allow you to walk through walls like they don't exist.

We'd have been attacking a city with coastal defences, an elite core of military units, and supplying our forces over the sea. Oh, and the city has food and whatnot.

Taking it would not have been easy or trivial.
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Read what was being said
Academia Nut said:
To be fair, had you gone for Trelli, you would have brought your warships and gone from two directions at once, and could have used your ships to transport your troops to within range to march on and besiege Trelli from the north-west. Hiring out cut out those routes.
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What do you think Siege Weaponry is??? It is specifically to walk through walls.
Look back at the sack of Xohyr
Academia Nut said:
Phygrif watched with grim satisfaction as the lowlanders went to work on the gates to the outer wall. Someone among the clever builders brought down to maintain the weapons of the Red Banner had decided that just sitting around waiting for the Xohyssiri to starve was no fun and had called for an exorbitant amount of iron and bronze to be paired with wood imported at considerable effort from the core territories to craft what amounted to an enormous hammer to smash open the gates. Well, okay, technically the team of men who were swinging it did it back and forth rather than a hammer's arc, but a hammer was how it had been generally explained to him, so that's what it was. They had also built a sort of portable shed covered in thick wood and leather to shield the team swinging the iron shod log from being pelted with objects from above. The archers of the Red Banner also kept the defenders down with a light but steady rain of arrows and slingstones.

Each swing of the infernal device created a great boom that echoed across the fields in front of the wall, the sound progressively growing more splintered as the gates gave way. As the gates began to actively break the spearmen of the Red Banner began to move forward, shields up to defend against missile attacks, forming a line behind the ram, the lowlander warriors more loosely behind them, an odd gleam in their eyes from the possibility of taking revenge for generations of submission, sacrifice, and humiliation to the Priests of Xohyr.

Finally, with a massive crack like a bone breaking, the bar holding the gates in place snapped from a blow by the ram. All across the length of the wall a great cry went up as the defenders realized that their walls had been breached. Perhaps if they had fought at the breach they might have saved themselves, but they knew how well the iron scaled scorpions of the Red Banner fought in close quarters and their morale failed them. Never before had an enemy so much as scratched their walls, and now they had been shattered. Warriors dropped their weapons and ran, either for the safety of the inner wall or to the opposite side of the city where they hoped the cordon would be thinner.
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We would have circumvented defenses with our ships, we have three elite cores of military units. On top of that, having your supposedly unbreakable defense break is killer for morale.

I am not saying it would be easy, but unlike Free Hills we would have had an actual chance of grabbing it.
 
Hmm...

General musings from the ONI:

FUCKING FACTIONS!

*ahem*

Can we please work on getting them all to 2 once the current crisis is over? I don't even mean work on solely this, but I feel like its a good idea to start devoting some effort to cutting them down a little. Especially Guilds, after we take the current quest.
 
BungieONI said:
-1 Actually.
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Oh, that's good. Doesn't change the best choice, but still good.

Raichu1972 said:
We actually only have -1 stab, but I still sorta agree with the argument. I'm voting to both send the mercs home and to let them fight so long as it's not Khem, but I can see the arguments for either one.

I'm against sending mercs to WY on principle, because they're slaving shits and traitors all.
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Yes, they're fairly terrible, but as much as I'd like to watch them burn while sipping my drink, they're much more useful alive than dead right now.

They make a useful buffer, and I want our enemies divided and weak. Preferably, we play all our enemies off against each other, using our mercenary companies to even the scales whenever we can. That applies to the Trelli: if we can negotiate a peace treaty, I'll happily lend them mercs. I want them to clear the strait ASAP, and I definitely don't want the Khemetri to get any ideas.

We'll have to see how next turn pans out, though.
 
BungieONI said:
Hmm...

General musings from the ONI:

FUCKING FACTIONS!

*ahem*

Can we please work on getting them all to 2 once the current crisis is over? I don't even mean work on solely this, but I feel like its a good idea to start devoting some effort to cutting them down a little. Especially Guilds, after we take the current quest.
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How?

We lose two Stability with every repress now and they sometimes have killer penalties for not completing them. :/
 
BungieONI said:
Hmm...

General musings from the ONI:

FUCKING FACTIONS!

*ahem*

Can we please work on getting them all to 2 once the current crisis is over? I don't even mean work on solely this, but I feel like its a good idea to start devoting some effort to cutting them down a little. Especially Guilds, after we take the current quest.
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It costs two stab to suppress factions now, so we would have to purposely fail a shit ton of quests and deal with a ton of temper tantrums in order to bump down our factions at this point.
 
Please, y'all, stop arguing about whether we could have conquered Troy or not.
Focus on the vote at hand.
 
Sivantic said:
How?

We lose two Stability with every repress now and they sometimes have killer penalties for not completing them. :/
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Well for the penalties we have two ways not to care.

Suppress itself and Division of Powers.

Most of the first idea that comes to mind is that after we are out from under the LC and Second Sons, to fail quests which have penalties we can afford and build up so we can fail the quests which have stuff we can't afford.

Also a note Suppress + Main PG handles the stab cost, though its a dick narrative move of pushing the king up by pushing others down, though on the flip side we do need more kingly authority.

Its an honest desire which I'll think about more, since the first suggestion above is bad.


Cause I can tell ya not doing anything because it is too expensive is going to hurt worse. Especially when AN compresses all the actions again, and it is feasible for our Factions to hijack the entire turn.
 
BungieONI said:
Hmm...

General musings from the ONI:

FUCKING FACTIONS!

*ahem*

Can we please work on getting them all to 2 once the current crisis is over? I don't even mean work on solely this, but I feel like its a good idea to start devoting some effort to cutting them down a little. Especially Guilds, after we take the current quest.
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We are pretty terrible at cutting down factions, what with the new Division of Power trait.
Also, doing that may very well cost us the faction goodwill, making them harming us a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Instead, what we need to do is fill up our stats, especially Cent/Stab/Econ/Wealth. Those give us a cushion in case our factions try something.
 
BungieONI said:
Hmm...

General musings from the ONI:

FUCKING FACTIONS!

*ahem*

Can we please work on getting them all to 2 once the current crisis is over? I don't even mean work on solely this, but I feel like its a good idea to start devoting some effort to cutting them down a little. Especially Guilds, after we take the current quest.
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Yeah I agree. While the bonuses for having a high faction strength are really good (Holyshit free Megaproject how why what even), I don't want to have to be on the recieving end of a faction that is both insanely powerful and inanely pissed.

Why 2, though?
 
@Academia Nut

For the Faction Quest failure negation reset, do success for quests from other faction count?

For example:

Fail Trader Quest
Succeed Guild Quest
Succeed Yeoman Quest
-> Failure Negation Reset?
 
Umi-san said:
Please, y'all, stop arguing about whether we could have conquered Troy or not.
Focus on the vote at hand.
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MOAR WOODEN HORSES, COWARDS!

What is there to argue about? All the winning and second winning projects are good.
Shard said:
For the Faction Quest failure negation reset, do success for quests from other faction count?
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I do not see why? Successes in a faction appease them so they are okay if we ignore them. Having another faction succeed does not exactly help that.
 
@Academia Nut

In your opinion, what would be considered 0 CE? Or when do we expect a dating system to show up?

Edit: Trying to figure out a starting point so that we can say which turn are in which century. Of course, it's fairly arbitrary...

Anyway, for faction quests, we should try in general succeed at them, or otherwise they will throw spite quests at us, like what the Urban Poor did to us.
 
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Malevolo said:
Freehills is closer to the colonies than the core man, it's faster to get to the colonies from freehills than from the corelands.
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If they're on contract, they're not exactly free to leave. I don't want our Merc companies to be forced to make the decision between deserting or defending one of our settlements. Off-duty, our Mercs are likely stationed in Redshore, they can likely be immediately loaded onto boats and sent out to wherever they're needed. Our current major threats are the Trelli, Pirate King, and Storm Wolves; all of those threats are based in the west and can be best reached via the Yllithon Mor.

Actually, getting on the boats is probably going to do more for deployment time than anything else we can do. Depending on where Free Hill stations them, it may not be easy to pick up our Merc companies. Waterborne transit is always faster than land-based. In Redshore, the mercs could leave immediately and arrive within a few days since catamaran are stupid fast and the Black Sea isn't terribly large. If the Banners are stationed somewhere inland, it will take days to walk to shore and get on the boats. Even if the journey itself is a shorter distance, it can still be a longer time because walking is so slow by comparison.
 
I think Balance of Power is a fairly nice value to have.

Especially if we could upgrade it so that successes from other factions does count.
 
Academia Nut said:
By making super hard points patrolled by full time elites, the majority of the population can remain off a war footing and only be mobilized when needed, with the walls ensuring there is enough time for that.
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Is there any mention at all for using professional soldiers in peace time to build military infrastructure to keep them busy? Like, say, roads for rapid deployment? ;p


Something else I would like to know is how our government beneath the King functions with the Factions.

As I understand it, the King is basically the ultimate authority in everything and basically has a cabinet around him that handles specific fields.

The Patricians are apparently the ones that appoint people to these positions. But is there anything formalized? Before Order Above All crushed the HKs parliament you said they got the idea from us, but there was never a reference to something like that.

Like, do we have something like a Senate where Patricians officially meet to appoint Chiefs and Governors or petition the King or is that all informal patronage networks?

And are the Factions represented now that they are more formalized (even if only in the form of Patricians that advocate for them in return for political support).


If we don't have a Senate, which level of Great Hall would create it (and why can't the bastards just meet out in the open while the weather is nice, bloody snobs)?
 
[X] [War] Figure out how to offer naval support as well (???)
[X] [Mercs] Stick around unless they intend to go after the Khemetri (Mercs still paid by Freehills barring war dec on Khemetri)
[X] [HS] Increase Iron production to make things cheaper (Redshore Ironworks [-3 Econ, -3 Tech, 2 Sustainable Forest used, Expand Econ additional +1 Econ, -1 EE, -1 Tech] + Sec Survey, Reforms advance)
 
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