Remove ads

Paths of Civilization

Reader mode
PrimalShadow said:
That said - I wouldn't be opposed to swapping two of our Forest Policies to City Support; that should take the edge off of things, at least.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yeah, I'm hoping that we can choose our new policies as the cities reform but if not, we definitely don't need 3 Forest policies right now.
Rakuhn said:
I think that we are going to need to convert most of our cities to free cities if we want to be able to deal with their upkeep cost.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
We're doing a Reformation of the subordinate system anyway, but ignoring that we only have 2 slots left. (13/15, -1 from -10 prestige, likely +1 from 3x free city legacy)


On a side note, I really hope we find a way to make a Miller's Guild. Getting Build Mills onto the [Guild] action list would be so incredibly useful.
 
Random Member said:
Question: Does Expand Economy's +3 Econ include Iron Blooded's bonus or not?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yes.

Steel blooded should move our Expand Economy to at least +4.

Shard said:
Next turn, I advocate this vote:

[][Main] Enforce Justice
[][Secondary] Enforce Justice
[][Secondary] Enforce Justice x2
[][Secondary] Suppress Faction (Traders)
[][Secondary] Expand Economy
[][Guild] Efficient Charcoal Kilns
[][Guild] Efficient Charcoal Kilns x2

+3~4 Stability, -1 Stability (Triggerring -4 Econ from Western Ymaryn, I understand), -5 Culture +3 Econ, -4 Econ, -4 Wealth, -2 Tech, -6 Sustainable Forests used.
Total: +2~3 Stability, +4~9 Centralization, -5 Econ, -5 Culture, -4 Wealth, -2 Tech

Guild Mercantile is kind of a really bad economic system to be having now, what with all the [Guild] eating up Econ points in some manner or another.

There is quite a nice narrative here with these actions, in my opinion, of enforcing the law (3 Enforce Justice and Suppress Faction), and using that authority to force the traders and guilds into making the economy not implode (Expand Economy, Efficienct Charcoal Kilns x2).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I rather switch out EJ with another expand econ or passive policy switch to reduce the burn.
 
[X] [Reform] Begin Myranyn Reforms Event Chain
[X] [GA] Subordinate reform (-10 Prestige)
[X] [Iron] Upgrade Iron Blooded to Steel Blooded
 
Tally
Adhoc vote count started by LuciDreamer on Oct 7, 2017 at 11:28 AM, finished with 112718 posts and 91 votes.
Click to expand...
 
Kiba said:
I rather switch out EJ with another expand econ or passive policy switch to reduce the burn.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I'd rather do the opposite, swap the Expand Econ with another EJ. EJ+[PSN] Expand Econ is strictly better than Expand Econ, and we want to get our Centralization up ASAP. Considering we always get the minimum Centralization from EJ, we can safely state that each EJ is equivalent to an Expand Econ of the same strength but with bonus Stability on the side.
 
If we had the resources to actually do it, I'd turn all our cities into Free Cities, and toss them all into [Infrastructure]. I have the nagging thought of 'Fragmented City-States', though.
 
What we need to be able to do is to turn off the dole policy, but I have a feeling that is going to cost us at least a stability point just to be able to do it.
 
Shard said:
If we had the resources to actually do it, I'd turn all our cities into Free Cities, and toss them all into [Infrastructure]. I have the nagging thought of 'Fragmented City-States', though.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
With Religious Independence, Stallionpen and Sacred Forest really are off limits for that now. That sort of thing goes out of control fast.
 
Kiba said:
We will also need to take into account reform costs. I am not sure that we're going to make it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ninjaed thoughts I was just having.


I think something really important has been ignored is that while everyone is so set on trying to find Harmysyn Reforms all bad, they have tried to make Myranyn Reforms all good.

Like, suddenly arming all your Urban Poor? That is super expensive.

Those advanced crossbows are not going to appear out of thin air and we are going to need to build a huge amount of them to arm our conscript recruits, never mind the costs in training them.

Sure the Myranyn Reforms also has teaching reforms, but that is still a big cost.

Consider that feeding our Urban Poor costs us 6 Economy every turn, how much you want to bet that arming them cost the same amount of Wealth?

Arming the Urban Poor is not a cost we going to be able cover.
 
Kiba said:
We will also need to take into account reform costs. I am not sure that we're going to make it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Pssh.

NO don't you dare Murphy! Go away!

*ahem*

What I was trying to say was that I think we are going to make it. Under Shard's plan we lose 2 Econ(@Shard it's only 1 stab hit and those are worth 2 Econ) to our kid. Plus Trelli refugees in the mid turn.

Personally I like their plan as it doesn't makes us shit out bloodsoaked Econ to badly. Still a net loss but could be worse.
Lemee just check the math.

[][Main] Enforce Justice
[][Secondary] Enforce Justice
[][Secondary] Enforce Justice x2
[][Secondary] Suppress Faction (Traders)
[][Secondary] Expand Economy
[][Guild] Efficient Charcoal Kilns
[][Guild] Efficient Charcoal Kilns x2

+2-4 Stability, 4-6 Cent, -1 Stability & -5 Culture & -2 Econ from West Ymar, -4 Econ & Wealth, -2 Tech, -6 Sustainable Forest used, +4 Econ -4 Expand.

Net: +1-3 Stability, 4-6 Cent(which I consider a tad dangerous due to how close I think we are to our cap), -5 Culture, -2 Econ +2 Expansion, -4 Wealth, -2 Tech, -6 Used forests. Panem costs another 6 for a total of 8.

E: Of course Sivantic raises a good point that we will have event chain stuff we need to do, which is going to be expensive and under cut doing the above stuff. I personally think we are going to have to finish the Urban poor quest to nail the plague to the wall so we have enough peeps, build another gym for more training grounds and raise army, or maybe double main raise army to finish it off.

E2: Just in general I think it will be a good idea to have 8+ Econ going into the Main turns for now since we need so much.
 
Last edited:
[X] [Reform] Begin Myranyn Reforms Event Chain
[X] [Iron] Upgrade Iron Blooded to Steel Blooded
[X] [PiA] Harmurri (Something trade related maybe [Not Center of Trade related])
[X] [GA] Subordinate reform (-10 Prestige)
 
Enforce Justice is somewhat less efficient if the secondaries combine into a Main. Certainly enough for me to look at a double'd Expand Economy instead.
 
Shard said:
Enforce Justice is somewhat less efficient if the secondaries combine into a Main. Certainly enough for me to look at a double'd Expand Economy instead.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
They would combine into a Main, its how AN runs the system currently as a means of balancing. Double'd Expand Econ is better usually 8 or 9 times out of 10.
 
Shard said:
Enforce Justice is somewhat less efficient if the secondaries combine into a Main. Certainly enough for me to look at a double'd Expand Economy instead.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
BungieONI said:
They would combine into a Main, its how AN runs the system currently as a means of balancing. Double'd Expand Econ is better usually 8 or 9 times out of 10.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's still more efficient than Expand Economy.
[Sec] EJ = +1 Cent, +1 Stab
[Main] EJ = +2 Cent, +1.5 Stab
1 Cent = 1 [PSN] Sec Expand Econ
So, using all the Centralization gain on PSN: (assuming Steel Blooded ups it to 4)
[Main] Expand Econ = +8 econ
[Sec] EJ + [Sec] Expand Econ + [PSN] Sec Expand Econ = +8 econ, +1 Stab
[Main] EJ + [PSN] Main Expand Econ = +8 econ, +1.5 Stab
I know which of those three I'd prefer to have.
 
Another issue we might face: Each City consumes one wealth for it's doubled innovation roll. That can get very troublesome with Guild Mercantile throwing shitfits for low Wealth and us needing Wealth for other things as well.

Midterm we may want to make more salterns to finance our exploding costs.
 
notgreat said:
It's still more efficient than Expand Economy.
[Sec] EJ = +1 Cent, +1 Stab
[Main] EJ = +2 Cent, +1.5 Stab
1 Cent = 1 [PSN] Sec Expand Econ
So, using all the Centralization gain on PSN: (assuming Steel Blooded ups it to 4)
[Main] Expand Econ = +8 econ
[Sec] EJ + [Sec] Expand Econ + [PSN] Sec Expand Econ = +8 econ, +1 Stab
[Main] EJ + [PSN] Main Expand Econ = +8 econ, +1.5 Stab
I know which of those three I'd prefer to have.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is true. On the other hand we have zero idea where the Cent cap is, and I in particular don't want to cross it so the value I hold EJ in is rapidly dropping as we raise Cent. There is also the fact that this takes more time to actually achieve, as I can't recall the last time we were able to do an Enforce, Expand Econ, and PSN all in the same update so it'd have to be one or the other of the EJ or Expand and then the other on the next turn which changes how things get figured out.

Now the last of the three is pretty nice and I'd go with that, but that's mid turn stuff and Shard and I are discussing main turn stuff when we can't have PSN.
 
Last edited:
Sec EJ is actually +2 Cent and Main EJ is +2.5 Cent, on average; The difference is +.5 Stab/Cent.

1 Cent = 4 Econ per PSN, I understand, so 0.5 Cent/Stab = 1 Expand Economy. So the options are.. equal, provided 1 Stab = 2 Econ?
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top