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Paths of Civilization

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You know now is a good time to Integrate Western Wall. It got as many actions as us so it's big. with the Admin genius and the low Martial it should go well.
 
NewAgeOfPower said:
Obviously voluntary trade is nearly always beneficial - problems arise when your dependency on it becomes a vulnerability.
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I feel dependency is too vague. Trading and related manufacturing of trade goods increases the maximum population an area can support before unemployment becomes a problem. Since there is only so much human you can staff on a plot before it becomes neutral in food production.

Trade is very much an integral part of our civilization due to the amount of wealth and stable goods it brings. Not to mention innovation and language development.
 
Susano said:
Considering in how many trading goods we're leading or dominant, I do think we would feel it if trade were interrupted. And not just in stat-wise wealth; I'm sure the loss of that income would have narrative knock-on effects. There would certainly be stab loss and social unrest. Still, yes, we're not the Trelli.

However, while being able to survive a trade disruption is obviously a good thing, I am a bit concerned with general anti-trade/anti-commerce attitudes in this thread. While of course the volume of trade in that era would only be a fraction of a fraction of... what it is today, the general principle of comparative advantages still hold. That's a general economical principle that always holds, which is a reason why trade is always economically beneficial.
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True enough.

We could gain a lot if the Trelli sold us pitch for our ships or different types of wood we could utilize.

There's also various ores with different impurities that would be interesting to our smiths.

And buying food from the Khemri, while expensive, can also allow us to get more done by investing into a safety margin.

As long as we keep investing that wealth into further wealth generation, there is absolutely no problem with getting as much trade as possible.

(On a side note, I'd love for the Salterns to be upgraded so we can maintain more Companies to cover all our territory.)
 
Manget said:
You know now is a good time to Integrate Western Wall. It got as many actions as us so it's big. with the Admin genius and the low Martial it should go well.
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Western Wall is so far one of the most loyal colonies. If you want to grab one, do Gulvalley so we get an open subordinate slot.

Even then I'd prefer to let Gulvalley to cook for a while. It can invest into building tall first.

The Txcolla are much more pressing given their sheer size. Take some of that away and the rump colony won't be able to rebell.
 
DakkaMania said:
Though, even with a super drought, our irrigation systems should continue to work along the rivers, where most our stuff is going to be anyway. Worst case, we need more Norias to pump the water upwards.
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the lowlands probably rely overly much on flooding and shallow channels for irrigation, and thus are heavily impacted when the water level drops. Our norias and maybe if we make multiple shallow (probably earthen) dams would help w/ that.
 
Susano said:
trade is always economically beneficial
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Ehhhhh, I think the Roman Empire suffered pretty hard for the trade it engaged in with China, as it sucked a huge amount of their silver out of the economy.

Most of the time, sure. But there are some societies where trade can be actively detrimental. The problem is that it's hard for those same societies to really be able to tell, due to lacking the appropriate tools and institutions to get a good read on it.

There's also the problem that if we become reliant on trade, it could cause a social collapse if a key trading partner collapses.

I mean, I agree with you completely on principle, trade is good, just that always is a bit strong of a term to use.
 
I'd rather we delay integration for a turn or two.

Somthing like this should be perfect for next turn.
Main : art Patronage
Secondary : great Hall annex
Secondary : garden annex

This will definitely create a trend or movement towards cultural development, as well as greatly boosting the cultural influence and impact of the Royal court.
The more people who visit the court the more we can ingraine its culture into them, and the more the arts spread and develop.

The synergy should also help us with our vassals and provincial elites, as more courtiers means they are too busy trying to impress and curry favour to plot or cause dissent in their territory.
 
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Umi-san said:
the lowlands probably rely overly much on flooding and shallow channels for irrigation, and thus are heavily impacted when the water level drops. Our norias and maybe if we make multiple shallow (probably earthen) dams would help w/ that.
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Well we know the txolla took an action called "Rework irrigation" so that's probably not an issue as much anymore
 
DakkaMania said:
Western Wall is so far one of the most loyal colonies. If you want to grab one, do Gulvalley so we get an open subordinate slot.

Even then I'd prefer to let Gulvalley to cook for a while. It can invest into building tall first.

The Txcolla are much more pressing given their sheer size. Take some of that away and the rump colony won't be able to rebell.
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Good points. So a Integrate of Txcolla is a good idea.
 
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Godwinson said:
Ehhhhh, I think the Roman Empire suffered pretty hard for the trade it engaged in with China, as it sucked a huge amount of their silver out of the economy.
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...British Empire I think you meant.

And yes, "always" is wrong. There is also the case that the principle of comparative advantages tells agricultural economies to stay agricultural, because hey, that's what they're best in. But in truth, you need industrialization in order to develop, and most industrialization in Europe was done, on the economical level, by heavy protectionism. Which in that case, as a "strategical" rather than a general use of protectionism, was okay. I did oversell that principle a bit maybe, but I wanted to get it across.
 
maximillian said:
I'd rather we delay integration for a turn or two.

Somthing like this should be perfect for next turn.
Main : art Patronage
Secondary : great Hall annex
Secondary : garden annex

This will definitely create a trend or movement towards cultural development, as well as greatly boosting the cultural influence and impact of the Royal court.
The more people who visit the court the more we can ingraine it culture into them, and the more the arts spread and develop.

The synergy should also help us with our vassals and provincial elites, as more courtiers means they are too busy trying to impress and curry favour to plot or cause dissent in their territory.
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How about garden and shrine annex? Proper myth support and royal graden would help the clerks relax. Not really keen on great hall.
 
Susano said:
...British Empire I think you meant.

And yes, "always" is wrong. There is also the case that the principle of comparative advantages tells agricultural economies to stay agricultural, because hey, that's what they're best in. But in truth, you need industrialization in order to develop, and most industrialization in Europe was done, on the economical level, by heavy protectionism. Which in that case, as a "strategical" rather than a general use of protectionism, was okay. I did oversell that principle a bit maybe, but I wanted to get it across.
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Nope, the Roman Empire got fucked about by the loss of silver too! It's something that's been discussed in this thread before, in fact.

But yes, the point is to make it so other nations become reliant on Ymar, not the reverse. :p
 
[X] [GA] Gain random genius (-15 Culture)
-[X] [GA] Specify: Admin genius (Additional -3 Culture)
[X] [FC] Redhills
[X] [FC] Redshore
[X] [Diplo] Tie everything together internally (Main Build Roads)
[X] [React] Continue work on the Place to the Stars (5/7-8 actions completed)
-[X] [React] Kick project (ISoO already triggered this turn)

Just realized that I forgot to vote.
 
Somebodynobody10 said:
OK; I must call bullshit on that. Patricians are still rich like *quack*!
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Whilst relatively wealthy, they aren't the richest, the traders are. And the patricians main income is from clerical or military services, which isn't exactly a gold mine. And large scale art Patronage requires wealth that no one but the king has. As it implies providing for and rewarding a large number of artists so that they will be doing nothing but art.
 
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DocMatoi said:
Well we know the txolla took an action called "Rework irrigation" so that's probably not an issue as much anymore
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????!!!!

SpeckofStardust said:
The Trell are to depended on us to cause major problems.
The highlanders are still the next target unless if something else comes up.
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I just want the Trell's land so that we're closer to finishing the circle and can proceed to not give a shit about that area in any sense other than the defensive. The HK will let us stop caring about war from that side but the lowlands are still going to be irritating regardless.

Godwinson said:
But yes, the point is to make it so other nations become reliant on Ymar, not the reverse. :p
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evil but yeah. drug dealers got more power.
 
VoidZero said:
How about garden and shrine annex? Proper myth support and royal graden would help the clerks relax. Not really keen on great hall.
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The great Hall is the ultimate political and cultural tool, it's more important now than ever, as for the shrine.
Its important, very much so, but at this exact moment the hall an garden have priority, the shrine should come immediately after thought.


Edit: just realised Somthing, our Pottery and textiles are probably sub standard duo to our zero investment in the arts.
 
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Godwinson said:
But yes, the point is to make it so other nations become reliant on Ymar, not the reverse. :p
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Can't really avoid that becoming two-way. We can't (and shouldn't) just ignore all the wealth that pours in, we have to use it, so at some level we become dependent on it to maintain our usual activities.

There are, of course, ways to mitigate the risks of that dependency, so losing trade would just slow us down rather than break us.
 
pbluekan said:
That said, I don't think the Trelli would ever disrupt trade with us. We dominate a majority of the import and export markets on this side of the Straight of Trell. They need our trade more than we need theirs.
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The Trelli would almost never willingly cut off trade with us. However, if they faced the same scenario as described by the videos, then they won't be able to continue significant trade with us.
 
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