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Paths of Civilization

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Susano said:
That is why trade and specialized production is always more efficient than generalized autarky economies. Because with trade, everyone can play to their strengths.
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okay, but a) that whole theory ignores quality differences and politics and b) no one is hardcore competing for the pottery title so we might as well move in on this empty market.

Also, vineyards give us more technology eventually.

DocMatoi said:
Back in one of the hertythn turns
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good on them. ptsd-chan playing w/ dirt. so cute.
 
Susano said:
...British Empire I think you meant.

And yes, "always" is wrong. There is also the case that the principle of comparative advantages tells agricultural economies to stay agricultural, because hey, that's what they're best in. But in truth, you need industrialization in order to develop, and most industrialization in Europe was done, on the economical level, by heavy protectionism. Which in that case, as a "strategical" rather than a general use of protectionism, was okay. I did oversell that principle a bit maybe, but I wanted to get it across.
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Comparative advantage is definitely important, but of all things, China, serves as an example where Autarky can kinda render it moot. When you have a large enough internal economy where you can afford to divide the labor in such a way where it's favorable to trade internally, you can generally pull off autarchy.

And while I wouldn't say the Ymaryn are quite there, but it's telling that China's- the autarky economy to end all autarky- major import was silver, hard currency. And that's very much the case for the Ymaryn where their economy is so much larger and more complex than their neighbors that in a very real sense- there's only one major import that a lot of our neighbors can convince us to buy. It doesn't help that the Ymaryn is increasingly better positioned at the crossroads between eastern and western trade.

I mean, think about it- bronze, tin and copper? We have zero need. Dyes? We have local dyes we favor. Wines? Local. Slaves? Yeah no.

Barring a few specific luxury goods the Ymaryn are uniquely positioned to choose different sources for, the real foreign demand Ymar has is cold hard currency, that's used to pay for all the exports they have to offer. I feel any potential trade collapse would less be the Ymaryn losing critical imports and more everyone else running out of the cash to buy Ymaryn goods, leading to domestic overproduction crashing local prices and forcing a dramatic shift in trade as the Ymaryn juggernaut shifts their foreign policy to find a different way of meeting their insatiable demand for silver.
 
Umi-san said:
okay, but a) that whole theory ignores quality differences and politics and b) no one is hardcore competing for the pottery title so we might as well move in on this empty market.

Also, vineyards give us more technology eventually.


good on them. ptsd-chan playing w/ dirt. so cute.
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Funnily enough, some of the great innovations in indexing, cataloguing and accounting of the late medieval era occurred thanks to monastic vineyards.
 
I wanted to present some numbers on our current stats.

Current Status
Primary Stat Reserve: 18 (Diplo) + 18 (Econ) + 14 (Wealth) + 18 (Culture) + 16 (Mysticism) + 18 (Tech) = 102/108
Income: 6 (Diplo) - 4 (Econ) + 10 (Wealth) + 2 (Culture) + 2 (Mysticism) + 0 (Tech) = +15

Current Actions / Changes
Purchase Genius Admin: -18 Culture
Convert 2 True Cities to Free Cities: -4 Econ, +2 Culture/Turn, +2 Econ/Turn
Main New Trails: -2 Econ, +2 Diplomacy
Main and Kick Place to the Stars Megaproject: -4 Econ, -4 Mysticism (refunded)
Refunds: +4 Econ, +7 Mysticism

Total: -15 Stats, +4 Income.

End of Turn Status
Primary Stat Reserve: 87/108
Income: +20

Projected Turn Actions (WARNING: Speculative)
King Actions
{GM} Build Glassworks: -2 Econ, -2 Tech, +2 Wealth, +4 Culture
{M} Build Theatre: -1 Econ, -2 Wealth, -1 Culture, +4 Culture end of turn, +2 Culture next turn
{S} Integrate Colony: -6 Diplo, +6 Primary Stat Reserve Cap, lots of stats at end of turn.
{S} New Trails: -1 Econ, +1 Diplo

Province Actions
{S} -> {M} Expand Econ (doubled by The Law): +6 Econ
{S} Support Ruined Thunder Horse: -2 Econ
{M} Expand Forest: -3 Econ, +4 Econ next turn

Other
[Guild Quest Payout]: +1 Tech, +1 Culture

Total immediate effect on Stats: -5

Projected Results Going into Next Midturn (WARNING: Speculative)
87 (previous reserve) + 20 (income) - 5 (net action cost) = 102/114
 
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DocMatoi said:
Yeah but that will cause a scream of rage to echo out of the apartment of our Favorite Danish Lawyer as he melts down.
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Poor Favorite Danish Lawyer, he's affected by the Ymarin Clerk Curse
"If you ain't having a headache, you aren't working enough"
And the thread loves making him have a headache
 
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Manget said:
You know now is a good time to Integrate Western Wall. It got as many actions as us so it's big. with the Admin genius and the low Martial it should go well.
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Western Wall is a lot smaller than you'd think. It used to be the biggest thing ever... but nowdays? Not so much.

Now, WW does have 4 Secondaries, which is nothing to scoff at - but it has had 4 secondaries ever since we actually built the Palace and new secondaries were a thing.

Note that Greenshore ALSO has two secondaries, despite being converted from a Trading post only relatively recently.
 
veekie said:
Remember Gwygotha was credited with being the mother of horses. They're one of the earlier, most important animals since prehistory, and religious osmosis from Nomads and Thunder Speaker says that whatever horses are, they're spiritually important.
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You mean Bytah you uncultured heretical scum! She is the great mother of horses, and it is from Gygowyn that humans can trace their descent!
 
i'm kinda suprised we didn't get a legacy for riding the pop explosio as long as we did.
 
DakkaMania said:
A dam would still be highly useful
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Yes, it would. Amen brother. Even so, come Lord Dam and lead us into thy light.

Forgive us our procrastination, as we forgive those who procrastinate against us.
For thine is the arches, and the spillway and the reservoir forever. Amen.
 
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Susano said:
The basic principle is this: It is always good to spend as much effort as you can on the thing you're best in, to get the optimal amount of return. If you're subpar at craftmanship but excellent at farm work, then 40 workhours put into farm work will give you a much better return than 40 work hours put into craftmanship.

Of course, you still do need tools only craftmen can provide. That is why you concentrate on farm work, and then trade with those excel at craftmanship. As you see, this principle even holds within a society, within an economy, even at the level of companies or even individuals. It's basically also the base for the division of labour.

Now the funny thing is that this even holds true if you're better than anybody else in both farm work and craftmanship. Even then the optimized path is doing what you're best in, and trade in everything else. Because even then it holds true that you quite logically get your best returns per efforts in doing the thing you're absolutely best in - even IF your second-best thing is still better than that of others.

Now, look at goods in which the Ymarrin have traditionally sucked in: Pottery (our pottery has always been described as very basic) and textiles (zero trade in that, our textiles are uninteresting). We could spend efforts to better our quality in those areas, but those efforts will have a much greater return if we focus on what we're actually good in - playing to our strengths, not our weaknesses. In fact, in theory (though this is likely not really mirrored in the game mechanics), it would probably even be slightly inefficient to focus on wines - we're leading there, but what we excel in is regular farming, iron products and mercury products (which nobody else has).

That is why trade and specialized production is always more efficient than generalized autarky economies. Because with trade, everyone can play to their strengths.
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Poppies probably fall into something we're very good at. We should spend a guild action on that soon.
 
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