We got 40 Econ for that instead...
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
"Fucking like giant Kaiju rabbits" would be a good one for that
Hyacinthium
Writing about sad cannibals as we speak.
- Location
- Bedroom
- Pronouns
- He/Him
So we build a theatre and glassworks, followed by art patronage. Theoretically this should also help give me an excuse for a really nice mirror/lookingglass with neat mechanisms to mimic the Camera in Fatal Frame.
I'm already making a backstory and characters for it. Wonder if I'll spook myself writing it.
I'm already making a backstory and characters for it. Wonder if I'll spook myself writing it.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Analysis and Diffcheckers --"Golden Bells Toll"
Lots of diffcheckers this time, since AN updated the civ sheet twice, once for midturn calcs, ones for main turn.Total difference (Last Turn -> Main Turn):
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet)
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet BBCode)
Midturn Changes: (Last Turn -> Midturn)
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet)
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet BBCode)
Main Turn Changes (Midturn -> Main Turn)
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet)
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet BBCode)
@veekie @zamin @BungieONI
Diplomacy 9 -> 13 -> 18
Midturn 9 + 4 (3 Trade mission payouts of 1-2 each) = 13This Turn: 13 + 1 (King of the Hill) + 1 (Tinriver) + 4 (Games) - 3 (Found Trade Post) = 16 + 2 (???)
Hmm...Not sure what the 2 is from...Its not from overflow, because neither wealth nor mysticism is maxed. Maybe we got some extra boost from the trade missions after the fact, or from tinriver maturing? Hmm... Also, note that tinriver did in fact mature, so we're getting +1 diplo a turn from them
Econ 18 (+1) -> 13 (+6) -> 18 (+4)
Midturn 18 + (+1) (Delayed Settlement Econ) - 4 (Supporting Ruined Thunder Horse) - 2 (Place to the stars) = 13 + (+6) (Refugees) = 13 (+6)This turn: 13 + (+6) (Refugees) + 8 (Baby Boom) + 6 (Expand Econ) - 2 (Place to the Stars) - 2 (Support Subordinate) - 3 (Found Trading Post) - 2 (Grand Docks) - 1 (Study Metal) = 23 - 4 (???) - 1 (Overflow to Wealth) = 18
Not at all sure what the ??? is... but its what is needed to match the overflow numbers from wealth and EE.
Forests 13/16 -> 13/16 -> 15/16.5
This Turn: 13 + 2 (Grand Docks) = 15. 16 + 0.5 (Forests Policy) = 16.5Note that we also have a partially complete baths that will eat another forest slot this coming turn, so we actually only have 0.5, soon to be 1, forest slots.
EE 11 -> 11 -> 4
Midturn: 11 + [2-3] (Black Soil) + 3 (RTH support refund) + 2 (Place to the Stars Refund) - [6-8] (Refugees) = [10-13] = 11Hmm..We only gained 6 econ from the refugees, so we should have only lost 6 EE to them, but it looks like either we lost more than we gained, or something else happened...
This turn: 11 - 8 (Baby Boom) - 6 (Expand Econ) - 4 (Refugees) + 2 (PttS Refund) + 2 (SS Refund) + 3 (FTP Refund) + 2 (GD Refund) + 1 (SM Refund) = 3 + 1 (???) = 4
The ??? Should be the overflow... Which makes up with wealth, but not my original calc for econ...
Martial 14 -> 14 -> 10
This Turn: 14 - 2 (Support Subordinates) - 2 (Trading Post) = 10Wealth 18 -> 12 -> 14
Midturn: 18 - 6 (3 Secondary Trade Missions) = 12This Turn: 12 + 2 (Salterns) + 4 (Trade Dominance) + 1 (Iron Dominance) + 3 (Golden Age True Cities) - 1 (The Law) - 2 (Mercenaries) - 2 (Found Trading Post) - 1 (Study Stars) - 2 (Study Alchemy) - 1 (Study Metal) = 13 + 1 (Overflow from Econ) = 14
Note that grand docks + the northern trading post got us an extra per turn point
Culture 18 -> 18 -> 18
This Turn: 18 + 1 (True Cities + Games) + 1 (Canals Bonus to Grand Docks) = 20 - 2 (Overflow to Mysticism) = 18Mysticism 18 (+1) -> 18 -> 16 (+7)
Midturn: 18 + 1 (Delayed Settlment Mysticism) - 2 (Place to the Stars) = 17 + 2 (???) = 19 - 1 (Overflow to tech) = 18This Turn: 18 + 1 (Temple MP) + 1 (Dragon's Graveyard NW) - 2 (Place to the Stars) - 1 (Study Metal) - 2 (Study Alchemy) - 3 (Study Stars) + 1 (Overflow from Tech) + 2 (Overflow from Culture) + 1 (Canals Bonus to Grand Docks) = 16 + (+7) (Refunds from all the expenses)
Not sure what the ??? was... Also, note that we only got 7 refund from 8 expenses, thats because study stars was -3 but we only have 2 refund.
Tech 15 -> 16 -> 18
Midturn: 15 + 1 (Overflow from Mysticism) = 16This turn: 16 + 1 (Study Metal) + 1 (Study Alchemy) + 1 (Canal Bonus for Grand Docks) = 19 - 1 (Overflow to Mysticism) = 18
Prestige 78 -> 84 -> 86
Midturn: 78 + 6 (Vassalizations, Refugees, and Diplomacy after Bolide strike) = 84This Turn: 84 + 1 (Grand Docks) + 1 (International Games) = 86
We continue to roll poorly on our own damn games D= Still, total of +16 prestige from the Bolide incident and our responses.
Stability 3 -> 3 -> 3
Midturn: 3 - [1-2] (Refugees) + 1 (In Service to Order) = 3This Turn: 3 - [0-1] (Refugees) - [0-1] (Loss of Baby Boom) + 1 (In Service to Order)
In Service to Order already doing some good work, keeping us at max stab
Also, got lucky on either one or both refugee rolls, depending on whether losing baby boom cost a stability like the last 2 times.Centralization 4 -> 3 -> 3
4 - 1 (Personal Stewards) = 3Even with 5 True Cities, 3 centralization isn't yellow, which means our "natural" yellow limit after legacies is at least 8.
Religious Authority 8 -> 8 -> 9
8 + 1 (Sacred Forest Temple Upgrade) = 9Both 8 and 9 are yellow, so 10 is probably red...
Lost both baby boom and pop explosion, which sucks, but we gained a golden age which is amazing, especially with the new wealth bonus
That doubles our after expenses per-turn wealth to +10! Assuming we go with 2 free cities like we're currently voting for, then we'll end up with:+6 Diplo (1 KotH, 1 Tinriver, 4 Games)
-2 Econ (+1 Golden Age, -3 True Cities)
+10 Wealth (+5 GA Cities, +3 Salterns, +4 Trade, +1 Iron Dom, -1 Law, -2 Mercs)
+4 Culture (+2 Games+5 Cities, +2 Free Cities)
+2 Mysticism (+1 Temple MP, +1 Dragon's Graveyard lv 1)
That is, +20 stats total. Mind, 6 of those are from the golden age, but even without the golden age we'd have +14. If our cities go with the stat or city support policies, or if we get more cities, or if we build that dragon's graveyard temple, we'll have even more!
Trade Status
| Resource | Status | Rivals |
| Bulk | ||
| Food | Minimal (cities hunger) | Khem -> Trelli |
| Common Textiles | None | Khem -> Trelli |
| Lumber | Hoarding | |
| Charcoal | Hoarding | |
| Luxuries | ||
| Amber | Minor trading | Far Northern Tribes |
| Fine Pottery | Minor | Khem->Trelli, MH, Harmurri |
| Fine Dye | Dominating | Trelli |
| Fine Textiles | None | Harm, Khem->Trelli |
| Furs | Minor trading | Far Northern Tribes |
| Gems | Dominating | Trelli, Tin Tribes, Khem (in) |
| Glass | Dominating | |
| Gold | Significant + minor trading (in) | Metal Workers, Khem->Trelli |
| Incense | None | Khem->Trelli |
| Mercury | Dominating | None |
| Silver | Significant (in) | MW, Trelli (in) |
| Salt | Dominating | Trelli |
| Spices | None | (SI+Khem)->Trelli |
| Wine | Dominating | Trelli |
| Strategic | ||
| Copper | Leading | Highlanders, Mountain Horse, MW, Trelli, Khem (n/c) |
| Bronze | Minor | Trelli, Khem (n/c) |
| Slaves | Forbidden | MW (in), Trelli, TT, Khem |
| Tin | Minor + Significant Trading | MW (in), MH (in), HK (in), Tin Tribes, Trelli->Khem |
| Iron | Dominating | MW, HK |
| Cultural | ||
| Pilgrimage | Dominating | Khem (n/c) |
Bulk good trading unlocked! So far we dont actually trade much here, since our true cities eat so much econ, and our forests are mostly tied up for sustainable uses. Note that the Khemetri and trelli either have the grand docks, or else have big enough boats to do bulk trading either way, and are dominating in both. Getting some free cities and/or city support policies up might let us trade food, and getting more forest slots that aren't used might get us trading lumber and charcoal.
Amber gained minor trading, thanks to our new trade post. With luck we'll get some more power as it matures?
Fine Pottery, no change in our power, but the Khemetri, Mountain Horse, and the Harmurri all either started competing, or were already competing and AN hadn't updated this yet. None are dominating or threatening it, however.
Fine Textiles, Copper, and Tin have no actual changes, just name changes.
Iron, the Highland Kingdom have started trading, how dare they
Was 7/9+3, so we've added 4 subordinates, and 2 slots (one of them from early empire as a vassal only slot, one from prestige). Only have 3 slots left...
New vassals! Ruined Thunder Horse went from 7 -> 6 dependence after the support vassal action. Still, both it and the trading post are very dependent right now...
New legacy! Explicitly used to be the Xoh/Thunder Horse Empire's, but killing the former and vassalizing the latter let us take it
With luck we'll lose this sooner rather than later, by integrating all our vassals into either provinces or colonies/marches...New legacy, from the Bolide Strike incident... good for random CBs, butlikely has a terrible narrative behind it... also almost certain to raise RA when we use it, since we're basically saying the Gods want us to kill people...
New Techs! very important techs, even... Yay for Mystic Genius + Admin Hero! Somewhat makes up for our terrible innovation rolls lately... (seriously, main forest, secondary alchemy, secondary metal, grand docks completion, probably more, and no innovation rolls for any of them succeeded D=)
Incidentally, our annex limit should now be 15 (2 (Base) + 4 (8 Provinces) + 9 (Landed Subordinates). 17 with the 2 free cities! And AN said it usually doesn't go down with, say, integrating subordinates to provinces, so we have a lot of room for stuff now
Might influence our policies to actually take them now that we have so much room...Interesting choices from our admin hero... Megaprojects were necessary, and then he supported our dependent vassal and founded a new trading post, either to spread out more or for the economic nad tree advantages i guess? Didn't switch to megaproject support like i'd expected though...
Provinces are interesting too...expand econ makes sense; we didn't have the pop explosino anymore, so econ is tighter. Study Stars seems to be necessary until we have the PttS, since it costs mysticism now, and then our provinces decided to try to get us steel while we still had a mystic genius...and of course we rolled so poorly we got nothing out of them
Looks like baths are highly valued by our policies...i'd have hoped they'd wait and leave more forest slots open, but nope! So we need to be aware that our policies will try to use up our forest slots on baths until all our cities have them, it seems... Otherwise, we finished up the temple to get more RA and complete the priests quest.
Western Wall goes full on "lets get an awesome capital in the mountains!", which is either great (great secure place for defending against nomads, easier to manage once we integrate them, etc) or terrible (way easier for them to go off on their own) Still, if nothing else it means we'll eventually have one less GP we have to build to support another true city without strain.
Greenshore continues to expand, is already up to 2 extra actions which is awesome! Also, they're keeping up with walls and trails as they expand, which is smart of them
Gulvalley and heaven's hawk are looking for goodies; the former presumably because they're still kind of broke and need mines, the latter because they're pretty secure and want more goodies...which is dangerous, i dont think they have an iron mine yet, but if they get one then they'll almost certainly break free.
Txolla goes to work filling in all its land with farms (and thus people); AN said that was how they could end up with way more provinces. Again, warning signs for integration or at least influence...
Tinriver continues to be a trade post (and thus perfect and wonderful) and sends out trade missions that we would never take
Thunder speakers decide they need some technology, it seems... probably getting ready to build a bunch of mills, assuming our choices for what to do with Txolla (giving them black soil and mills) already applies to our new vassals?
RTH, on the other hand, can't do anything other than just start repairing things, even with 6 econ and 2 martial of support...
Hertythn no
You were supposed to last for 3 whole turns and be ridiculous!...*Looks up at the often aggravating math for these posts* I feel for you Hert <3
Read: We rolled a crit failure on study alchemy, and Tormulyna stopped it from having consequences, because mystic heroes/geniuses are the best <3
Interesting...when i first read this it sounded like magic, but then i realized...no, just math
So kudos to you AN for making math sound like magic even to a math person Sounds like 1. synergy between admin hero and mysticism genius got us the math upgrade, and 2. that "genius" in part means "intuitive grasp of very advanced math", where "admin hero" means he can translate that to actual theory and rigor
Oh hey, that most powerful of magics, geometry. =D
Hmm...i wonder what he's thinking...geometry is great, but i'm not sure where in particular its excellent in our current situation... Also, Bolide Strike has been named as the "God Fist", which makes sense =3
Read: Poor environment rolls lead to 1. baby boom being lost and 2. other civs taking a collective 2 stab hits and sending us refugees
Patricians, seriously fuck off D=<
...Well at least their borderline abuse of the low status workers will partially come to bite them...
Yay, traders are happy, and they're happy about things I am happy about =D Keep this up, and stop wanting to do slavery, and i might actually like you traders
Interesting... i wonder if this represents a critical, or if we gained and fulfilled a quest without seeing it to found the trade post (and in exchange gain walls and maybe that (???) 2 diplo?)
...Dammit traders. I liked you for like 2 sections and you've already ruined it D= Seriously, can't you have lower difficulty quests?
Interesting... not sure how much farther we have to go until we hit "classical"... still, very nice, especially the extra saltern support. Means we have a perfect pairing of salterns to trading posts for a full +3 wealth
Interesting... I guess this is from having more than 3 true cities or the like? I approve of their likes and dislikes at least so far
Mostly new quests!
-Patricians: ...Seriously guys, fuck off D= Thats 9 culture 9 econ, thats a lot! even with the policies thats at least a secondary from us and then most of a turns policy boosts! D= You could at least give a reward!
-Traders: Also fuck off D= The navigable path from the canal is apparently a "little less" than the triangle canal, so probably 6-8 or more actions and -4 stats each action. Alternately, we could try diplo...but unless we went with diplo hero or genius i dont think it likely, and we're clearly not voting for ether a diplo genius or a diplo mission this time, so... Still, the reward would be nice, likely focused on ships being better suited to teh Saffron Sea...
-Yeomen: I like the yeomen so much
Quest that we mostly want, with a bonus we want, with no failure state Passive policy will get us to 18 on its own, so just need 2 main actions over 3 turns. Would be good to get, but not vital.-Priests: I'd have thought we were supposed to not get a new quest until the turn after we complete one...still, not a bad quest...if it weren't for our RA being so high D= still, its possible that the theological innovation will be to boost our RA tolerance, so... maybe a good thing? If so then hopefully our policies will do it for us
-Urban Poor: !!! I love you guys <3 We've been getting hints that we need a theatre for like 4 turns, and now we might actually get one, and it'll give us a stability
...of course, we dont need stability right now, and i dont think we're voting for the kick on the place to the stars, so... *shrug* i guess we'll probably take a stab hit sometime in the next 3 turns?Read: Golden Age =D Also, having Pride in Acceptance and In Service to Order eating stab hits makes the refugee narrative a lot better it seems, even beyond the obvious "not taking stab hits is good". It sounds like integration is going way smoother now, so hopefully htere's less abuse...
Golden ages are great! =D This vote is pretty locked up now, so wont analyze it much, but good to konw how the "materials advance always available" works. We could almost certainly maintain a golden age for a long time if we just took the materials tech option every turn; we refund one point, and then getting 7 points back should be easy, especially with golden age boosts...
Read: We have -4 to centralization tolerance from 5 cities...
Free cities are pretty great
Redhills and Redshore are both close to the capital and so easier to maintain cultural oneness and notice if they abuse their privileges, as well as avoid them becoming a stressor point from a free city in a far off area to further focus divisionary thought. Also, we get a lot of bonuses to free cities, so lets do both =DWow... yay for Khemetri =D Sounds like their speculated Worship of the Heavens value meant they were inclined to come work with us after the sky smited our enemies after we used their best mystic tech... AN says they gave +1 progress to Palace of the Stars that way which is awesome! Tormulyna on the other hand gave +1 progress per action! hence how we're at 5/7-8 progress with only 2 actions on it
More PTSD! We should trade mission them soon. We wont. But we should D=
Missing a word here, probably "actively angry" "Actively upset"? Also, looks like one possible benefit and possible downside to high RA: our priests involving themselves in diplomacy, warning the Trelli of wrath over slavery...
Alas, even with a warning to do more diplomacy, we have so many other things to do that we're not
-Trelli: Try to complete mission diplomatically. Probably needs diplo hero/genius to succeed
-Southern Neighbours: try to normalize relationship with HK, and get started on folding the minors into our civ. Would need diplo hero/genius to have a chance of integrating the latter right away
-Victory Lap: Again, lets not do this, terrible narrative to it...
-Roads: Roads are always good, and it'll give us centralization to use for personal stewards
-Trees: We're already going to be at cap if we build glassworks next turn, and we've got a quest that needs 2 mains in the next 3 turns to complete.
-Place to the Stars: by Word of AN, Tormulyna is still alive, so we'd probably get 2 progress and hopefully complete it. Kicking woudl guarentee that, and we'd have the urban poor quest to replenish that stability.
-Glassworks: Make sure we finish the Guilds quest. Better imo to just use our guild action on it next turn.
-Forests: See fluff for above
-Watchtowers: An interesting choice...likely due to worries of even more war...
-Theatre: We keep getting hitns that we need one of these. Still, with the genius we're getting we dont have the culture for it now, and it would waste the stability from the quest.
-Temple: Finish the priests quest, gain +1 mysticism a turn, and go to 10 RA, which is probably red. Risky, if the theological innovation doesn't raise RA tolerance, and not too necessary right now. Better to just let the policies build it if we need it.
-Palace: Make a start on the Patrician quest, and get better administration settled. Again, probably better to let policies handle it, and focus on other things.
Place to the Stars will unlock some form of observatory expansion, likely extended projects.
Narrative for Victory Lap (Salt Gift); again, lets not risk the worse narrative D=
About possibility of a Thunder Horse heroic age; likely would have happened if we didn't vassalize them.
Number of crits (good nad bad) involved in the God Fist
Very interesting informative update
Might come back and do a fullanalysis of it later, but for now no Clarification in the People's treatment of women and the like; good for exceptional women and the like, but still bad for those that aren't :/
Our priests are pretty awesome =D ...most of the time at least
Possibility of religion becoming monotheistic around Crow the One God
Woo! Map! Gives us some new info...like how holy shit the Txolla are gigantic, and how holy shit so are the mountain horse and holy shit are we overextended...
New true city system! Things to note:
-Since each lower city is based on the higher city's thresholds, bonuses to threshold propogate downward; that is, giving Valleyhome +1 Threshold gives every city +1 threshold.
-Its much less likely that we'll swing wildly between number of cities, with it now being a half-threshold to gain, and thresholds mostly being higher.
-Each lower city is another point's difference, meaning that each new city is harder to get than the last
-However, it seems likely that the base threshold of 20 is actually (Number of Candidates - 1)*4, which would make adding new candidates the best way to boost all thresholds, and makes having a lot of cities possible.
-It is relatively hard to end up accidentally making a true city in our system, without giving them an aqueduct.
Google says that was an offshoot of the nile that stopped existing by now in RL, btw.
Aqueducts give health bonuses to non true cities, just not as strongly because the disease issue isn't as bad anyway.
Info on geopolitics and some "unclaimed" land in the lowlands, with lowland minors in it.
Number of provinces in Txolla; no info on how many are integrateable yet...
Info for trade posts, and the northern mountains.
Geography info for the Mountain horse.
Confirmation that passive policies have non-stated narratvie effects (which i thought we already new, but either way good to know for sure
)Information for Maximillion on his fellow sheep and their role in our civ
About diplo annexing minors like in the lowlands
Confirmation that we have very high population density, comparable to some of the best farmland in the world, the not!Nile.
Info on the thunder horse's appearance/dress
Full confirmation on the ending conditions for a golden age, which should be relatively easy to keep to...Later confirmed to be checked at midturn and at mainturn, so its fine to dip lower.
Reasons why we dont trade bulk food: too urban
Confirmation for why we lost baby boom
Study stars has changed, and likely gives bonuses (or "bonuses" depending on if you believe it works or not
) for predictions, at cost of mysticism, while place to the stars might remove that cost or even give the bonus back...Ouch, for comparison Triangle Canal is 8-11 actions, -3 econ, -1 tech each action. So might be lower actions higher cost, or just slightly lower actions same cost.
Redhills can safely be a free city without losing us the Great Forge
Info on where all the progress came from for PttS
The trelli have Pitch for their ships, which others have said is about the same in terms of effect as us having iron when others didn't. So...thats bad D= Still, hopefully our northern trade post will get us that, since i think people said that was one thing it could?
Confirmation that Tinriver has matured
Info on geniuses; lets hope admin geniuses are more stable, and we roll well...
In this case, can't get more than one innovation from GA.
Diplo, Admin, and Culturecan all help relations with vassals.
Diplo genius could be an intrigue genius
Northern Trade Post has not provided enough trees for us to plant back home yet.
HK trade mission with a diplo hero or genius may be able to result in diploannexation, but not for sure
Infrastructure policy cannot build theatres.
Guilds quest lasts until the end of next turn.
Hertytyhn is not quite as bullshit as fully establishing math, but he is bullshit enough to have laid a good foundation. (And Tormulyna is even better but can't dumb it down enough for anyone but sometimes Hertythn
)-Tormulyna is alive and will give bonuses to the Place to the Stars actions at least for the midturn
-Admin genius may or may not take over this coming turn, depending on who they are (likely means both in terms of sanity and in terms of how noble they are)
-Grand Docks did in fact trigger Canal.
-Defensive Policy focuses on periphery, so lower valleyhome still not walled
-Iron dominance does in fact give +1 wealth on its own
More confirmation on where the stability hit came from. Greater Sacred Forest continues to be amazing and wonderful <3
Info on Yenyna's son, who seems to have decided the God Fist meant he was destined to work for/with the Gods
Info on what happens when we fail a quest, so failing quests just makes the next quest worse :/ Hopefully the opposite is true as well, and succeeding quests gives us better ones...
Info on what free cities amount to. So not super dangerous, just the same rights as any province chief has.
Information on our holy shit giant population! Lot's of people from the TS and TH...but that does mean that since the census we have gone from ~3million people to ~4-4.5 million on our own accord. I guess that counts other sources of refugees too...but still, ~1million people born from People, not including refugees (but including their kids once here), in a century or 2, is ridiculously great =D
Confirmation that the Xohyr/Thunder Horse previously had Early Empire.
Confirmation that we are Stronk. "Shiny" presumably means prestige. i wonder how we're doing on megaprojects now...we have done like 7 of them in the last ~10 turns
VERY IMPORTANT WARNING. We need vassal support policies, and we need actual influence subordinate actions, and more.
Especially since thats needed to make sure they don't continue slavery in all but name likethe Txolla tried.
Info on failing a quest but invalidating the failure condition (i guess like if we'd done a gymnasium instead of chariots?)
Confirmation on Vassal Support being amazing
Confirmation on both how innovation chances work in Golden Ages, and on why we couldn't say no this turn like we could the time before.
Potential for a golden age duration legacy. If so, the Xoh almost certainly had multiple levels of it; they spent 10 whole fucking turns in it. See my post here for what all has happened over 10 turns:
Seriously, its ridiculous
We can have multiple innovation chances in a turn
Hopefully in that case we get the chance to say no to all but one of them if we want? Also confirmation that the max stats are checked at the start of the turn, before actions, because thats why only culture and mysticism were rolled for. If it were after actions we'd have rolled on Diplo and Tech too.More info on Yenyna, and why we dont want to replicate her (personal) fighting style
Info on teh strength of vassal support; works out to about half an untargeted IS a turn per policy.
That said, said policies are smart enough to focus on the bad cases, like, you know, our new vassals
Confirmation that dead civs give up their lock on legacies (again, already knew this
)Very important info on when golden age ending conditions are checked (or at least the max stats bit...)
More information on how our society works. We have de facto but not de jure inheritance, as expected.
Information on taxes, and organization of resources, and hoarding things like sheep. Seems like a pretty good system, expecially the "productivity bonus" that goes with redistribution
...That's not good :/ More Roads! D=
TH and TS leaving might be relativley peaceful if we let them, might not be...
Warning that there's always the possibility of more major environmental issues...hence one more reason why Greater Sacred Forest is amazing.
More info on how we incentive innovation in our communal system... but also more info on how tax evasion is terrible and ruins everything
-What was the extra 4 econ expense that didn't give EE refunds?
Answer: "Dunno" So maybe just a math error from me? not a big deal anyway...
-Where did the extra 2 Diplo come from?
Answer (Probably): We completed an extra quest for the Patricians, who wanted 6 econ of low status labor, either slaves or refugees. Thankfully we got enough refugees to fulfill it, and while AN didn't confirm, its possible the reward was 2 diplo?
-Do we have any new possible slots for Aqueducts? We only had 2 (Blackmouth and stonepen iirc) the last time we saw the action list, but we have more provinces and such now...
Answer: Yes, but we will have a cap on the number of true/free cities based on (#Provinces/2 + #Landed/Non-FC Subordinates/2). Note that this is for actual true cities, not candidates, and probably wont be relevant unless we build a shitton of walls and the like in our existing true cities to raise the cap.
-Will the governor's palace in western wall lower our min centralization tolerance and provide a third of a free city tolerance while its still in a subordinate, or does it have to be integrated first? Will having it in Western Wall let us integrate all of Western Wall instead of just 2 provinces, with it as a local administrative hub?
Answer: Governors Palace will only affect Western Wall until integrated, but yet, we can now integrate the whole thing with a single integrate action
-How poorly did we do in the Games to only get 1 prestige from it?
Answer: "Standard has everyone getting 1 Prestige unless someone does really well/poorly and affecting the distribution."
-How will adding the new province and player actions from our government type work now that we're past 8 provinces? Will we get both at once, at 10 provinces, since it rounds up? Or maybe a player action at 9, and a province action at 11? Or will the rounding work differently, or something else?
Answer: "New player Sec at 9, new province action at 11." Which means that getting one more province is incredibly valuable, giving us both a guild action and a player action
-Does the loyalty boost from multiple vassal support policies require us to have multiple slots open, or just 1? (i.e. if we have 3 policies to Vassal Support, and 13/14 subordinates, will we get 1 policy worth of loyalty boosts, or 3?
Answer "3 worth of policy support": so we only need 1 free slot no matter the number of policies
-To add to that, is the passive influence boost from vassal support dependent on there being an open slot just like the loyalty boost, or does it still apply with all slots filled?
Answer: It applies even when slots are filled
-Does the base threshold value for true cities change ever, or will it be 20 forever? If it does change, is the math (# of City Candidates - 1) * 4, like i speculated?
Answer: No, or at least not from adding Candidates. Its just 20 base until/unless technology increases it. This means its very hard for us to get more than ~6 or so cities without a lot of investment in each one.
-Would it be possible for you to give us a list of what mines and quarries we have and where, please? we had several that didn't say what provinces they're in, and things like Hatvalley "reclaiming mines" that didn't say what they were, and i dont know if we actually got the location for the gold mine we found right before Phygriff. If nothing else, what mines are in the Heaven's Hawk territory? Is it just the Salt Mine?
Answer: "Specific mines are becoming less special unless they do something special like provide a rare luxury good." Also, HH only havethe salt mine still
-Would it be possible for you to list "specials", like we usually see in the action list, like "innovation chances for boats boosted due ot new design" or "having a mystic hero boosts study actions", listed on the civ sheet, especially for times like this where we dont see the action list? Among other things it would make it easier to know if Tormulyna's bonus would still apply this turn, without having to ask you like i did earlier
Answer: "Need to redo the front page for a couple of things, will keep it in mind"
-How many of the 3 provinces in Txolla are integrateable right now?
Answer " Up to 2 if you really want"
-When we take an integrate action on, say, Txolla or Western wall, would we get a single province per action, or all integrateable provinces at once?
Answer: "As many as you can at once" which is ridiculous! We can eat the whole of WW (probably 4 provinces?) at once!
-What exactly got us the walls for the trading post? Was that from a critical? Or did we get an extra Traders Quest and fulfill it before we actually saw it?
Answer: We had a quest for it, with the traders wanting a new trade post, and offering to build and pay for walls in exchange
-If failing a quest for a faction makes their next (or all future?) quests more likely to be bad, does succeeding a quest make their next (future) quest(s) better?
Answer: " Succeeding in a quest makes their next quest more likely to be good, up to a certain point (mechanically I add a bonus to their next roll, up to a certain point). It is possible for this to make a bad quest worse though (a crit fail with high power can mean that the faction throws its weight around to the detriment of others)"
-Now that we've completed 5 Megaprojects, a wonder, and are almost done with a 6th megaproject, how do we compare on megaprojects with the Khemetri? Have we finally surpassed them on that too?
Answer: "- About even with the Khemetri. They have a lot of nice infrastructure" Woo! We caught up Sounds like they have more of their Extended Projects built out than us, but we have caught up on actual Mega Projects?
-For the grand docks, how far are we from "classical" boat innovations? Like...what "age" are our current boats in, and how many ages away is classical from that?
Answer: "You have Bronze Age/Iron Age boats. Grand Docks works up until about the end of the Classical period (i.e. the Fall of the Western Roman Empire)" So should work thru ~5th century CE tech, which should be at least a couple entire redesigns/revolutionary techs for boats
-Shouldn't it have taken a full turn after completing the priest quest to get a new one?
Answer "-I update the available quests the phase after completed so you know what happens next turn, and can react to them" So we can burn through quests pretty damn quickly.
-How likely is it that the current priest quest's innovation will boost RA tolerance, if we can know that?
Answer: "Unknowable", which i expected, but still, alas :/
-The palace annex limit is out of date, it should be 15 now (2 (Base) + 4 (8 Provinces) + 9 (Landed Subordinates)), or 17 after the 2 free cities come into play.
Answer: "Been Meaning to Update that"
-is there any difference in "Build Roads" vs "New Trails"?
Answer: "Typo. Still trails, although roads are close now." So with luck we'll unlock an upgraded action after this turn
-Can we see the action list, even if the admin genius takes over?
Answer: "I can probably swing that." =D =D =D <3
-Can we know more about gymnasia since they've come up more?
Answer: "Gymnasia are places for physical education to train for the games, and cultural transmission. They can increase Martial tolerance from non-primary sources (like Swords and Ploughshares), and can give Culture boosts for training warriors" So definitely not a straight up education system yet, but still useful both immediately and as an in to develop more educational systems.
And a couple minor holdover questions from last time:
-Are we trading case hardened iron tools/weapons, or just "regular" iron?
Answer: "Case hardening is mostly restricted to weapons because it is a difficult skill to learn how to do properly" ...which in retrospect doesn't actually answer my question? Sounds like it'd be kept to our elite soldiers though, since its difficult.
-Is the Trade dominance bonus for Iron in addition to, or instead of the usual wealth bonus from dominating trade? THat is, if we had 10 trade goods at leading or higher, including iron, would we have +5 wealth total (Iron +1, then 9 "normal" trade goods round down to +4), or +6 (+1 iron, then 10 trade goods for 5, with iron counting for that as well)?
Answer: "Luxury, bulk, and strategic are all counted separately. Luxury and bulk are 1/2, strategic is 1. Some luxury goods like salt and gold also provide extra wealth"
Answer: "Dunno" So maybe just a math error from me? not a big deal anyway...
-Where did the extra 2 Diplo come from?
Answer (Probably): We completed an extra quest for the Patricians, who wanted 6 econ of low status labor, either slaves or refugees. Thankfully we got enough refugees to fulfill it, and while AN didn't confirm, its possible the reward was 2 diplo?
-Do we have any new possible slots for Aqueducts? We only had 2 (Blackmouth and stonepen iirc) the last time we saw the action list, but we have more provinces and such now...
Answer: Yes, but we will have a cap on the number of true/free cities based on (#Provinces/2 + #Landed/Non-FC Subordinates/2). Note that this is for actual true cities, not candidates, and probably wont be relevant unless we build a shitton of walls and the like in our existing true cities to raise the cap.
-Will the governor's palace in western wall lower our min centralization tolerance and provide a third of a free city tolerance while its still in a subordinate, or does it have to be integrated first? Will having it in Western Wall let us integrate all of Western Wall instead of just 2 provinces, with it as a local administrative hub?
Answer: Governors Palace will only affect Western Wall until integrated, but yet, we can now integrate the whole thing with a single integrate action
-How poorly did we do in the Games to only get 1 prestige from it?
Answer: "Standard has everyone getting 1 Prestige unless someone does really well/poorly and affecting the distribution."
-How will adding the new province and player actions from our government type work now that we're past 8 provinces? Will we get both at once, at 10 provinces, since it rounds up? Or maybe a player action at 9, and a province action at 11? Or will the rounding work differently, or something else?
Answer: "New player Sec at 9, new province action at 11." Which means that getting one more province is incredibly valuable, giving us both a guild action and a player action
-Does the loyalty boost from multiple vassal support policies require us to have multiple slots open, or just 1? (i.e. if we have 3 policies to Vassal Support, and 13/14 subordinates, will we get 1 policy worth of loyalty boosts, or 3?
Answer "3 worth of policy support": so we only need 1 free slot no matter the number of policies
-To add to that, is the passive influence boost from vassal support dependent on there being an open slot just like the loyalty boost, or does it still apply with all slots filled?
Answer: It applies even when slots are filled
-Does the base threshold value for true cities change ever, or will it be 20 forever? If it does change, is the math (# of City Candidates - 1) * 4, like i speculated?
Answer: No, or at least not from adding Candidates. Its just 20 base until/unless technology increases it. This means its very hard for us to get more than ~6 or so cities without a lot of investment in each one.
-Would it be possible for you to give us a list of what mines and quarries we have and where, please? we had several that didn't say what provinces they're in, and things like Hatvalley "reclaiming mines" that didn't say what they were, and i dont know if we actually got the location for the gold mine we found right before Phygriff. If nothing else, what mines are in the Heaven's Hawk territory? Is it just the Salt Mine?
Answer: "Specific mines are becoming less special unless they do something special like provide a rare luxury good." Also, HH only havethe salt mine still
-Would it be possible for you to list "specials", like we usually see in the action list, like "innovation chances for boats boosted due ot new design" or "having a mystic hero boosts study actions", listed on the civ sheet, especially for times like this where we dont see the action list? Among other things it would make it easier to know if Tormulyna's bonus would still apply this turn, without having to ask you like i did earlier
Answer: "Need to redo the front page for a couple of things, will keep it in mind"
-How many of the 3 provinces in Txolla are integrateable right now?
Answer " Up to 2 if you really want"
-When we take an integrate action on, say, Txolla or Western wall, would we get a single province per action, or all integrateable provinces at once?
Answer: "As many as you can at once" which is ridiculous! We can eat the whole of WW (probably 4 provinces?) at once!
-What exactly got us the walls for the trading post? Was that from a critical? Or did we get an extra Traders Quest and fulfill it before we actually saw it?
Answer: We had a quest for it, with the traders wanting a new trade post, and offering to build and pay for walls in exchange
-If failing a quest for a faction makes their next (or all future?) quests more likely to be bad, does succeeding a quest make their next (future) quest(s) better?
Answer: " Succeeding in a quest makes their next quest more likely to be good, up to a certain point (mechanically I add a bonus to their next roll, up to a certain point). It is possible for this to make a bad quest worse though (a crit fail with high power can mean that the faction throws its weight around to the detriment of others)"
-Now that we've completed 5 Megaprojects, a wonder, and are almost done with a 6th megaproject, how do we compare on megaprojects with the Khemetri? Have we finally surpassed them on that too?
Answer: "- About even with the Khemetri. They have a lot of nice infrastructure" Woo! We caught up
Sounds like they have more of their Extended Projects built out than us, but we have caught up on actual Mega Projects?-For the grand docks, how far are we from "classical" boat innovations? Like...what "age" are our current boats in, and how many ages away is classical from that?
Answer: "You have Bronze Age/Iron Age boats. Grand Docks works up until about the end of the Classical period (i.e. the Fall of the Western Roman Empire)" So should work thru ~5th century CE tech, which should be at least a couple entire redesigns/revolutionary techs for boats
-Shouldn't it have taken a full turn after completing the priest quest to get a new one?
Answer "-I update the available quests the phase after completed so you know what happens next turn, and can react to them" So we can burn through quests pretty damn quickly.
-How likely is it that the current priest quest's innovation will boost RA tolerance, if we can know that?
Answer: "Unknowable", which i expected, but still, alas :/
-The palace annex limit is out of date, it should be 15 now (2 (Base) + 4 (8 Provinces) + 9 (Landed Subordinates)), or 17 after the 2 free cities come into play.
Answer: "Been Meaning to Update that"
-is there any difference in "Build Roads" vs "New Trails"?
Answer: "Typo. Still trails, although roads are close now." So with luck we'll unlock an upgraded action after this turn
-Can we see the action list, even if the admin genius takes over?
Answer: "I can probably swing that." =D =D =D <3
-Can we know more about gymnasia since they've come up more?
Answer: "Gymnasia are places for physical education to train for the games, and cultural transmission. They can increase Martial tolerance from non-primary sources (like Swords and Ploughshares), and can give Culture boosts for training warriors" So definitely not a straight up education system yet, but still useful both immediately and as an in to develop more educational systems.
And a couple minor holdover questions from last time:
-Are we trading case hardened iron tools/weapons, or just "regular" iron?
Answer: "Case hardening is mostly restricted to weapons because it is a difficult skill to learn how to do properly" ...which in retrospect doesn't actually answer my question? Sounds like it'd be kept to our elite soldiers though, since its difficult.
-Is the Trade dominance bonus for Iron in addition to, or instead of the usual wealth bonus from dominating trade? THat is, if we had 10 trade goods at leading or higher, including iron, would we have +5 wealth total (Iron +1, then 9 "normal" trade goods round down to +4), or +6 (+1 iron, then 10 trade goods for 5, with iron counting for that as well)?
Answer: "Luxury, bulk, and strategic are all counted separately. Luxury and bulk are 1/2, strategic is 1. Some luxury goods like salt and gold also provide extra wealth"
True Cities And Relevant Infrastructure
[6 City Candidates, 8 City Limit]:
-Valleyhome [Aqueduct, Baths, Sig. Walls, Capital, Palace] (25 EE Threshold)[6 City Candidates, 8 City Limit]:
-Sacred Forest [Aqueduct, Sig. Walls] (23 EE Threshold)
-Redshore [Aqueduct, Sig. Walls] (20 EE Threshold) [Baths In Progress: 2/3]
-Stallion Pen [Aqueduct, Sig. Walls] (16 EE Threshold)
-Redhills [Aqueduct, Sig. Walls] (11 EE Threshold)
-Lower Valleyhome [Aqueduct, Sig. Walls] (4 EE Threshold)
-Greenshore Capital [Aqueduct, Sig. Walls?] (In Subordinate)
-Western Wall Capital [Aqueduct, Sig. Walls?] (In Subordinate) [Governor's Palace in Progress 6/9]
Libraries:
[Total effect: 2 Mysticism Refund]
-Sacred Forest (Temple, Megaproject, +1 Refund by itself)[Total effect: 2 Mysticism Refund]
-Valleyhome (True City)
-Valleyhome (Palace Annex x2 = 1 National Library)
-Stallion Pen (Temple)
Temples
[3 Total Temple Levels, 1 Natural Wonder]:
-Sacred Forest in Sacred Shore (Lv 2)[3 Total Temple Levels, 1 Natural Wonder]:
-Dragon Graveyard in Stallion Province (Lv 1 + Natural Wonder)
Salterns/Salt Mines:
[Support: 2 Trade Posts, 1 Grand Docks]
[Total Effect: +3 Wealth/turn]
-Southshore (Lv 1 Saltern)[Support: 2 Trade Posts, 1 Grand Docks]
[Total Effect: +3 Wealth/turn]
-Northshore (Lv 1 Saltern)
-Heaven's Hawk (Lv 1 Salt Mine) (In Subordinate, Applies to Core Anyway)
Governor's Palace:
[Total Effect: -0 Min Centralization Tolerance, +0 Admin-Free True Cities]
-Western Wall (In Subordinate) [6/9 In Progress][Total Effect: -0 Min Centralization Tolerance, +0 Admin-Free True Cities]
Colossal Walls:
None in Core or Subordinates
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- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
Thanks for always being so diligent about these @Abby Normal <3
10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
You are ignoring overflows. Something turns our excess Diplo into culture. Naratively, I don't know what it is, but it exists.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
"always" you say, as if i didn't skip like half a dozen, or like i didn't wait long enough that i'm surprised @Academia Nut hasn't updated again
(But yeah, no problem, i love this kind of analysis
)
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I don't like doing this right now. We still have so much to do in terms of stats as well as subordinates to influence. Perhaps next turn we can integrate Gulvalley, but this turn I'd prefer influence over increasing our directly controlled territory.
Integrating gives us more actions. Hard to beat that.
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Probably something like
"An abundance of foreign ties, and foreign visitors in the games inspires more art and stories" or "Patricians and traders can easily import foreign art and stories due to their ties to foreign nobles" or "the games are widely talked about and depicted in art and stories" or the like? In either case, this would influence our cultural narratives to either include a lot of foreign characters, or to include foreign ideas, values, and stories.
Similarly, Mysticism overflowing into art (like it will this turn) is either "sacred art and stories are adopted or converted as/with secular art and stories" or "idle priests and shamans create more (religious) art in their spare time" or "religious fervor inspires more art and stories". In this case, our cultural narratives would be more religiously inclined. There'd be more allusions or outright references/inclusions to/of religious stories and characters.
Tech overflowing into culture would either 1. just be the mysticism version, with the mysticism provided by the tech first, with technology and innovation and the like allowing for more idle priests, or the beautify of mechanics inspiring religious fervor since our religion is big on studying and understanding the natural world, or 2. be something like "artisans with spare time adding elaborate designs to their otherwise functional work", or "labor saving devices allow more people time to be creative and create art or stories" or the like.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
To answer this, you cleared two more faction quests. The Patricians wanted 6 Econ worth of low status labour, obtainable either by taking slaves or absorbing refugees, while the traders wanted a new trading post, with success having the post start with significant walls (2 Econ and a Secondary action).
The Patricians keep rolling nasty quests for some reason.
Pretty much. Technically if something overflows twice it can be different. Wealth -> Diplo -> Culture is that you have so much spare wealth that you are using it to beautify things.
Wont we need to integrate Gulvalley to do that Canal? Even if we the current consensus happens to be in favour of cutting some deal with the Trelli or just ignoring that faction quest, retaining the flexibilty of still being able to fulfill the quest by building the canal should be a big upside and integrating Gulvalley is a good option for next turn even without that.
- Location
- United States
Wait, so our Patricians don't have problems with slaves either?
Because otherwise that quest would have been impossible to complete if we didn't happen to have climate instability and the Doom Comet creating a ton of refugees.
I heavily prioritize influencing the Thunder Speakers and Thunder Horse. They're in prime Lowland, and consolidating them would give us far greater rewards to balance out Trelli's increased trade power. We can afford to let it sit for a few turns.
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10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
Time to overthrow the Bourgoisie
Dutch
Bored Spearman of the Wind
- Location
- CET
Sacrificing livestock is a classic one that tends to do the trick.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
I think you're being a bit of an idealist here. A more productive culture is great, but we already have a powerful culture. It's part of why we are dominating in pilgrimage. The idea that more art in all its forms would supplant direct influence and even policy influence is ridiculous. It will help, certainly, but it takes far more advanced information exchange to get to that point.
If you want an example, let's look at the romans. They were famous for supplanting their vassal's culture with their own. They did this by planting roman administrators and government in the conquered areas, helping out the populace, and bringing their culture along with the administrators and nobles.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Holy shit that's huge this time. Thanks.Analysis and Diffcheckers --"Golden Bells Toll"Lots of diffcheckers this time, since AN updated the civ sheet twice, once for midturn calcs, ones for main turn.
Total difference (Last Turn -> Main Turn):
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet)
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet BBCode)
Midturn Changes: (Last Turn -> Midturn)
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet)
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet BBCode)
Main Turn Changes (Midturn -> Main Turn)
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet)
Diff Checker (Civ Sheet BBCode)
@veekie @zamin @BungieONI
Diplomacy 9 -> 13 -> 18Midturn 9 + 4 (3 Trade mission payouts of 1-2 each) = 13
This Turn: 13 + 1 (King of the Hill) + 1 (Tinriver) + 4 (Games) - 3 (Found Trade Post) = 16 + 2 (???)
Hmm...Not sure what the 2 is from...Its not from overflow, because neither wealth nor mysticism is maxed. Maybe we got some extra boost from the trade missions after the fact, or from tinriver maturing? Hmm... Also, note that tinriver did in fact mature, so we're getting +1 diplo a turn from them
Econ 18 (+1) -> 13 (+6) -> 18 (+4)Midturn 18 + (+1) (Delayed Settlement Econ) - 4 (Supporting Ruined Thunder Horse) - 2 (Place to the stars) = 13 + (+6) (Refugees) = 13 (+6)
This turn: 13 + (+6) (Refugees) + 8 (Baby Boom) + 6 (Expand Econ) - 2 (Place to the Stars) - 2 (Support Subordinate) - 3 (Found Trading Post) - 2 (Grand Docks) - 1 (Study Metal) = 23 - 4 (???) - 1 (Overflow to Wealth) = 18
Not at all sure what the ??? is... but its what is needed to match the overflow numbers from wealth and EE.
Forests 13/16 -> 13/16 -> 15/16.5This Turn: 13 + 2 (Grand Docks) = 15. 16 + 0.5 (Forests Policy) = 16.5
Note that we also have a partially complete baths that will eat another forest slot this coming turn, so we actually only have 0.5, soon to be 1, forest slots.
EE 11 -> 11 -> 4Midturn: 11 + [2-3] (Black Soil) + 3 (RTH support refund) + 2 (Place to the Stars Refund) - [6-8] (Refugees) = [10-13] = 11
Hmm..We only gained 6 econ from the refugees, so we should have only lost 6 EE to them, but it looks like either we lost more than we gained, or something else happened...
This turn: 11 - 8 (Baby Boom) - 6 (Expand Econ) - 4 (Refugees) + 2 (PttS Refund) + 2 (SS Refund) + 3 (FTP Refund) + 2 (GD Refund) + 1 (SM Refund) = 3 + 1 (???) = 4
The ??? Should be the overflow... Which makes up with wealth, but not my original calc for econ...
Martial 14 -> 14 -> 10This Turn: 14 - 2 (Support Subordinates) - 2 (Trading Post) = 10
Wealth 18 -> 12 -> 14Midturn: 18 - 6 (3 Secondary Trade Missions) = 12
This Turn: 12 + 2 (Salterns) + 4 (Trade Dominance) + 1 (Iron Dominance) + 3 (Golden Age True Cities) - 1 (The Law) - 2 (Mercenaries) - 2 (Found Trading Post) - 1 (Study Stars) - 2 (Study Alchemy) - 1 (Study Metal) = 13 + 1 (Overflow from Econ) = 14
Note that grand docks + the northern trading post got us an extra per turn point
Culture 18 -> 18 -> 18This Turn: 18 + 1 (True Cities + Games) + 1 (Canals Bonus to Grand Docks) = 20 - 2 (Overflow to Mysticism) = 18
Mysticism 18 (+1) -> 18 -> 16 (+7)Midturn: 18 + 1 (Delayed Settlment Mysticism) - 2 (Place to the Stars) = 17 + 2 (???) = 19 - 1 (Overflow to tech) = 18
This Turn: 18 + 1 (Temple MP) + 1 (Dragon's Graveyard NW) - 2 (Place to the Stars) - 1 (Study Metal) - 2 (Study Alchemy) - 3 (Study Stars) + 1 (Overflow from Tech) + 2 (Overflow from Culture) + 1 (Canals Bonus to Grand Docks) = 16 + (+7) (Refunds from all the expenses)
Not sure what the ??? was... Also, note that we only got 7 refund from 8 expenses, thats because study stars was -3 but we only have 2 refund.
Tech 15 -> 16 -> 18Midturn: 15 + 1 (Overflow from Mysticism) = 16
This turn: 16 + 1 (Study Metal) + 1 (Study Alchemy) + 1 (Canal Bonus for Grand Docks) = 19 - 1 (Overflow to Mysticism) = 18
Prestige 78 -> 84 -> 86Midturn: 78 + 6 (Vassalizations, Refugees, and Diplomacy after Bolide strike) = 84
This Turn: 84 + 1 (Grand Docks) + 1 (International Games) = 86
We continue to roll poorly on our own damn games D= Still, total of +16 prestige from the Bolide incident and our responses.
Stability 3 -> 3 -> 3Midturn: 3 - [1-2] (Refugees) + 1 (In Service to Order) = 3
This Turn: 3 - [0-1] (Refugees) - [0-1] (Loss of Baby Boom) + 1 (In Service to Order)
In Service to Order already doing some good work, keeping us at max stab
Centralization 4 -> 3 -> 34 - 1 (Personal Stewards) = 3
Even with 5 True Cities, 3 centralization isn't yellow, which means our "natural" yellow limit after legacies is at least 8.
Religious Authority 8 -> 8 -> 98 + 1 (Sacred Forest Temple Upgrade) = 9
Both 8 and 9 are yellow, so 10 is probably red...
Lost both baby boom and pop explosion, which sucks, but we gained a golden age which is amazing, especially with the new wealth bonus
+6 Diplo (1 KotH, 1 Tinriver, 4 Games)
-2 Econ (+1 Golden Age, -3 True Cities)
+10 Wealth (+5 GA Cities, +3 Salterns, +4 Trade, +1 Iron Dom, -1 Law, -2 Mercs)
+4 Culture (+2 Games+5 Cities, +2 Free Cities)
+2 Mysticism (+1 Temple MP, +1 Dragon's Graveyard lv 1)
That is, +20 stats total. Mind, 6 of those are from the golden age, but even without the golden age we'd have +14. If our cities go with the stat or city support policies, or if we get more cities, or if we build that dragon's graveyard temple, we'll have even more!
Good number of changes here.Trade Status
Resource Status Rivals Bulk Food Minimal (cities hunger) Khem -> Trelli Common Textiles None Khem -> Trelli Lumber Hoarding Charcoal Hoarding Luxuries Amber Minor trading Far Northern Tribes Fine Pottery Minor Khem->Trelli, MH, Harmurri Fine Dye Dominating Trelli Fine Textiles None Harm, Khem->Trelli Furs Minor trading Far Northern Tribes Gems Dominating Trelli, Tin Tribes, Khem (in) Glass Dominating Gold Significant + minor trading (in) Metal Workers, Khem->Trelli Incense None Khem->Trelli Mercury Dominating None Silver Significant (in) MW, Trelli (in) Salt Dominating Trelli Spices None (SI+Khem)->Trelli Wine Dominating Trelli Strategic Copper Leading Highlanders, Mountain Horse, MW, Trelli, Khem (n/c) Bronze Minor Trelli, Khem (n/c) Slaves Forbidden MW (in), Trelli, TT, Khem Tin Minor + Significant Trading MW (in), MH (in), HK (in), Tin Tribes, Trelli->Khem Iron Dominating MW, HK Cultural Pilgrimage Dominating Khem (n/c)
Bulk good trading unlocked! So far we dont actually trade much here, since our true cities eat so much econ, and our forests are mostly tied up for sustainable uses. Note that the Khemetri and trelli either have the grand docks, or else have big enough boats to do bulk trading either way, and are dominating in both. Getting some free cities and/or city support policies up might let us trade food, and getting more forest slots that aren't used might get us trading lumber and charcoal.
Amber gained minor trading, thanks to our new trade post. With luck we'll get some more power as it matures?
Fine Pottery, no change in our power, but the Khemetri, Mountain Horse, and the Harmurri all either started competing, or were already competing and AN hadn't updated this yet. None are dominating or threatening it, however.
Fine Textiles, Copper, and Tin have no actual changes, just name changes.
Iron, the Highland Kingdom have started trading, how dare they
Was 7/9+3, so we've added 4 subordinates, and 2 slots (one of them from early empire as a vassal only slot, one from prestige). Only have 3 slots left...
New vassals! Ruined Thunder Horse went from 7 -> 6 dependence after the support vassal action. Still, both it and the trading post are very dependent right now...
New legacy! Explicitly used to be the Xoh/Thunder Horse Empire's, but killing the former and vassalizing the latter let us take it
New legacy, from the Bolide Strike incident... good for random CBs, butlikely has a terrible narrative behind it... also almost certain to raise RA when we use it, since we're basically saying the Gods want us to kill people...
New Techs! very important techs, even... Yay for Mystic Genius + Admin Hero! Somewhat makes up for our terrible innovation rolls lately... (seriously, main forest, secondary alchemy, secondary metal, grand docks completion, probably more, and no innovation rolls for any of them succeeded D=)
Incidentally, our annex limit should now be 15 (2 (Base) + 4 (8 Provinces) + 9 (Landed Subordinates). 17 with the 2 free cities! And AN said it usually doesn't go down with, say, integrating subordinates to provinces, so we have a lot of room for stuff nowInteresting choices from our admin hero... Megaprojects were necessary, and then he supported our dependent vassal and founded a new trading post, either to spread out more or for the economic nad tree advantages i guess? Didn't switch to megaproject support like i'd expected though...
Provinces are interesting too...expand econ makes sense; we didn't have the pop explosino anymore, so econ is tighter. Study Stars seems to be necessary until we have the PttS, since it costs mysticism now, and then our provinces decided to try to get us steel while we still had a mystic genius...and of course we rolled so poorly we got nothing out of them
Looks like baths are highly valued by our policies...i'd have hoped they'd wait and leave more forest slots open, but nope! So we need to be aware that our policies will try to use up our forest slots on baths until all our cities have them, it seems... Otherwise, we finished up the temple to get more RA and complete the priests quest.
Western Wall goes full on "lets get an awesome capital in the mountains!", which is either great (great secure place for defending against nomads, easier to manage once we integrate them, etc) or terrible (way easier for them to go off on their own) Still, if nothing else it means we'll eventually have one less GP we have to build to support another true city without strain.
Greenshore continues to expand, is already up to 2 extra actions which is awesome! Also, they're keeping up with walls and trails as they expand, which is smart of them
Gulvalley and heaven's hawk are looking for goodies; the former presumably because they're still kind of broke and need mines, the latter because they're pretty secure and want more goodies...which is dangerous, i dont think they have an iron mine yet, but if they get one then they'll almost certainly break free.
Txolla goes to work filling in all its land with farms (and thus people); AN said that was how they could end up with way more provinces. Again, warning signs for integration or at least influence...
Tinriver continues to be a trade post (and thus perfect and wonderful) and sends out trade missions that we would never take
Thunder speakers decide they need some technology, it seems... probably getting ready to build a bunch of mills, assuming our choices for what to do with Txolla (giving them black soil and mills) already applies to our new vassals?
RTH, on the other hand, can't do anything other than just start repairing things, even with 6 econ and 2 martial of support...Hertythn no
...*Looks up at the often aggravating math for these posts* I feel for you Hert <3
Read: We rolled a crit failure on study alchemy, and Tormulyna stopped it from having consequences, because mystic heroes/geniuses are the best <3
Interesting...when i first read this it sounded like magic, but then i realized...no, just math
Sounds like 1. synergy between admin hero and mysticism genius got us the math upgrade, and 2. that "genius" in part means "intuitive grasp of very advanced math", where "admin hero" means he can translate that to actual theory and rigor
Oh hey, that most powerful of magics, geometry. =D
Hmm...i wonder what he's thinking...geometry is great, but i'm not sure where in particular its excellent in our current situation... Also, Bolide Strike has been named as the "God Fist", which makes sense =3
Read: Poor environment rolls lead to 1. baby boom being lost and 2. other civs taking a collective 2 stab hits and sending us refugees
Patricians, seriously fuck off D=<
...Well at least their borderline abuse of the low status workers will partially come to bite them...
Yay, traders are happy, and they're happy about things I am happy about =D Keep this up, and stop wanting to do slavery, and i might actually like you traders
Interesting... i wonder if this represents a critical, or if we gained and fulfilled a quest without seeing it to found the trade post (and in exchange gain walls and maybe that (???) 2 diplo?)
...Dammit traders. I liked you for like 2 sections and you've already ruined it D= Seriously, can't you have lower difficulty quests?
Interesting... not sure how much farther we have to go until we hit "classical"... still, very nice, especially the extra saltern support. Means we have a perfect pairing of salterns to trading posts for a full +3 wealth
Interesting... I guess this is from having more than 3 true cities or the like? I approve of their likes and dislikes at least so far
Mostly new quests!
-Patricians: ...Seriously guys, fuck off D= Thats 9 culture 9 econ, thats a lot! even with the policies thats at least a secondary from us and then most of a turns policy boosts! D= You could at least give a reward!
-Traders: Also fuck off D= The navigable path from the canal is apparently a "little less" than the triangle canal, so probably 6-8 or more actions and -4 stats each action. Alternately, we could try diplo...but unless we went with diplo hero or genius i dont think it likely, and we're clearly not voting for ether a diplo genius or a diplo mission this time, so... Still, the reward would be nice, likely focused on ships being better suited to teh Saffron Sea...
-Yeomen: I like the yeomen so much
-Priests: I'd have thought we were supposed to not get a new quest until the turn after we complete one...still, not a bad quest...if it weren't for our RA being so high D= still, its possible that the theological innovation will be to boost our RA tolerance, so... maybe a good thing? If so then hopefully our policies will do it for us
-Urban Poor: !!! I love you guys <3 We've been getting hints that we need a theatre for like 4 turns, and now we might actually get one, and it'll give us a stability
Read: Golden Age =D Also, having Pride in Acceptance and In Service to Order eating stab hits makes the refugee narrative a lot better it seems, even beyond the obvious "not taking stab hits is good". It sounds like integration is going way smoother now, so hopefully htere's less abuse...
Golden ages are great! =D This vote is pretty locked up now, so wont analyze it much, but good to konw how the "materials advance always available" works. We could almost certainly maintain a golden age for a long time if we just took the materials tech option every turn; we refund one point, and then getting 7 points back should be easy, especially with golden age boosts...
Read: We have -4 to centralization tolerance from 5 cities...
Free cities are pretty great
Wow... yay for Khemetri =D Sounds like their speculated Worship of the Heavens value meant they were inclined to come work with us after the sky smited our enemies after we used their best mystic tech... AN says they gave +1 progress to Palace of the Stars that way which is awesome! Tormulyna on the other hand gave +1 progress per action! hence how we're at 5/7-8 progress with only 2 actions on it
More PTSD! We should trade mission them soon. We wont. But we should D=
Missing a word here, probably "actively angry" "Actively upset"? Also, looks like one possible benefit and possible downside to high RA: our priests involving themselves in diplomacy, warning the Trelli of wrath over slavery...
Alas, even with a warning to do more diplomacy, we have so many other things to do that we're not
-Trelli: Try to complete mission diplomatically. Probably needs diplo hero/genius to succeed
-Southern Neighbours: try to normalize relationship with HK, and get started on folding the minors into our civ. Would need diplo hero/genius to have a chance of integrating the latter right away
-Victory Lap: Again, lets not do this, terrible narrative to it...
-Roads: Roads are always good, and it'll give us centralization to use for personal stewards
-Trees: We're already going to be at cap if we build glassworks next turn, and we've got a quest that needs 2 mains in the next 3 turns to complete.
-Place to the Stars: by Word of AN, Tormulyna is still alive, so we'd probably get 2 progress and hopefully complete it. Kicking woudl guarentee that, and we'd have the urban poor quest to replenish that stability.
-Glassworks: Make sure we finish the Guilds quest. Better imo to just use our guild action on it next turn.
-Forests: See fluff for above
-Watchtowers: An interesting choice...likely due to worries of even more war...
-Theatre: We keep getting hitns that we need one of these. Still, with the genius we're getting we dont have the culture for it now, and it would waste the stability from the quest.
-Temple: Finish the priests quest, gain +1 mysticism a turn, and go to 10 RA, which is probably red. Risky, if the theological innovation doesn't raise RA tolerance, and not too necessary right now. Better to just let the policies build it if we need it.
-Palace: Make a start on the Patrician quest, and get better administration settled. Again, probably better to let policies handle it, and focus on other things.@Academia Nut lots of questions this time around <3Place to the Stars will unlock some form of observatory expansion, likely extended projects.
Narrative for Victory Lap (Salt Gift); again, lets not risk the worse narrative D=
About possibility of a Thunder Horse heroic age; likely would have happened if we didn't vassalize them.
Number of crits (good nad bad) involved in the God Fist
Very interesting informative update
Clarification in the People's treatment of women and the like; good for exceptional women and the like, but still bad for those that aren't :/
Our priests are pretty awesome =D ...most of the time at least
Possibility of religion becoming monotheistic around Crow the One God
Woo! Map! Gives us some new info...like how holy shit the Txolla are gigantic, and how holy shit so are the mountain horse and holy shit are we overextended...
New true city system! Things to note:
-Since each lower city is based on the higher city's thresholds, bonuses to threshold propogate downward; that is, giving Valleyhome +1 Threshold gives every city +1 threshold.
-Its much less likely that we'll swing wildly between number of cities, with it now being a half-threshold to gain, and thresholds mostly being higher.
-Each lower city is another point's difference, meaning that each new city is harder to get than the last
-However, it seems likely that the base threshold of 20 is actually (Number of Candidates - 1)*4, which would make adding new candidates the best way to boost all thresholds, and makes having a lot of cities possible.
-It is relatively hard to end up accidentally making a true city in our system, without giving them an aqueduct.
Google says that was an offshoot of the nile that stopped existing by now in RL, btw.
Aqueducts give health bonuses to non true cities, just not as strongly because the disease issue isn't as bad anyway.
Info on geopolitics and some "unclaimed" land in the lowlands, with lowland minors in it.
Number of provinces in Txolla; no info on how many are integrateable yet...
Info for trade posts, and the northern mountains.
Geography info for the Mountain horse.
Confirmation that passive policies have non-stated narratvie effects (which i thought we already new, but either way good to know for sure
Information for Maximillion on his fellow sheep and their role in our civ
About diplo annexing minors like in the lowlands
Confirmation that we have very high population density, comparable to some of the best farmland in the world, the not!Nile.
Info on the thunder horse's appearance/dress
Full confirmation on the ending conditions for a golden age, which should be relatively easy to keep to...Later confirmed to be checked at midturn and at mainturn, so its fine to dip lower.
Reasons why we dont trade bulk food: too urban
Confirmation for why we lost baby boom
Study stars has changed, and likely gives bonuses (or "bonuses" depending on if you believe it works or not
Ouch, for comparison Triangle Canal is 8-11 actions, -3 econ, -1 tech each action. So might be lower actions higher cost, or just slightly lower actions same cost.
Redhills can safely be a free city without losing us the Great Forge
Info on where all the progress came from for PttS
The trelli have Pitch for their ships, which others have said is about the same in terms of effect as us having iron when others didn't. So...thats bad D= Still, hopefully our northern trade post will get us that, since i think people said that was one thing it could?
Confirmation that Tinriver has matured
Info on geniuses; lets hope admin geniuses are more stable, and we roll well...
In this case, can't get more than one innovation from GA.
Diplo, Admin, and Culturecan all help relations with vassals.
Diplo genius could be an intrigue genius
Northern Trade Post has not provided enough trees for us to plant back home yet.
HK trade mission with a diplo hero or genius may be able to result in diploannexation, but not for sure
Infrastructure policy cannot build theatres.
Guilds quest lasts until the end of next turn.
Hertytyhn is not quite as bullshit as fully establishing math, but he is bullshit enough to have laid a good foundation. (And Tormulyna is even better but can't dumb it down enough for anyone but sometimes Hertythn
-Tormulyna is alive and will give bonuses to the Place to the Stars actions at least for the midturn
-Admin genius may or may not take over this coming turn, depending on who they are (likely means both in terms of sanity and in terms of how noble they are)
-Grand Docks did in fact trigger Canal.
-Defensive Policy focuses on periphery, so lower valleyhome still not walled
-Iron dominance does in fact give +1 wealth on its own
More confirmation on where the stability hit came from. Greater Sacred Forest continues to be amazing and wonderful <3
Info on Yenyna's son, who seems to have decided the God Fist meant he was destined to work for/with the Gods
Info on what happens when we fail a quest, so failing quests just makes the next quest worse :/ Hopefully the opposite is true as well, and succeeding quests gives us better ones...
Info on what free cities amount to. So not super dangerous, just the same rights as any province chief has.
Information on our holy shit giant population! Lot's of people from the TS and TH...but that does mean that since the census we have gone from ~3million people to ~4-4.5 million on our own accord. I guess that counts other sources of refugees too...but still, ~1million people born from People, not including refugees (but including their kids once here), in a century or 2, is ridiculously great =D
Confirmation that the Xohyr/Thunder Horse previously had Early Empire.
Confirmation that we are Stronk. "Shiny" presumably means prestige. i wonder how we're doing on megaprojects now...we have done like 7 of them in the last ~10 turns
VERY IMPORTANT WARNING. We need vassal support policies, and we need actual influence subordinate actions, and more.
Especially since thats needed to make sure they don't continue slavery in all but name likethe Txolla tried.
Info on failing a quest but invalidating the failure condition (i guess like if we'd done a gymnasium instead of chariots?)
Confirmation on Vassal Support being amazing
Confirmation on both how innovation chances work in Golden Ages, and on why we couldn't say no this turn like we could the time before.
Potential for a golden age duration legacy. If so, the Xoh almost certainly had multiple levels of it; they spent 10 whole fucking turns in it. See my post here for what all has happened over 10 turns:
Seriously, its ridiculous
We can have multiple innovation chances in a turn
More info on Yenyna, and why we dont want to replicate her (personal) fighting style
Info on teh strength of vassal support; works out to about half an untargeted IS a turn per policy.
That said, said policies are smart enough to focus on the bad cases, like, you know, our new vassals
Confirmation that dead civs give up their lock on legacies (again, already knew this
Very important info on when golden age ending conditions are checked (or at least the max stats bit...)
More information on how our society works. We have de facto but not de jure inheritance, as expected.
Information on taxes, and organization of resources, and hoarding things like sheep. Seems like a pretty good system, expecially the "productivity bonus" that goes with redistribution
...That's not good :/ More Roads! D=
TH and TS leaving might be relativley peaceful if we let them, might not be...
Warning that there's always the possibility of more major environmental issues...hence one more reason why Greater Sacred Forest is amazing.
More info on how we incentive innovation in our communal system... but also more info on how tax evasion is terrible and ruins everything
Many thanks to @PrimalShadow for pointing out issues with my Extended Projects listing, and @pblur for his suggestion of adding horizontal lines-Do we have any new possible slots for Aqueducts? We only had 2 (Blackmouth and stonepen iirc) the last time we saw the action list, but we have more provinces and such now...
-Will the governor's palace in western wall lower our min centralization tolerance and provide a third of a free city tolerance while its still in a subordinate, or does it have to be integrated first? Will having it in Western Wall let us integrate all of Western Wall instead of just 2 provinces, with it as a local administrative hub?
-How poorly did we do in the Games to only get 1 prestige from it?
-How will adding the new province and player actions from our government type work now that we're past 8 provinces? Will we get both at once, at 10 provinces, since it rounds up? Or maybe a player action at 9, and a province action at 11? Or will the rounding work differently, or something else?
-Does the loyalty boost from multiple vassal support policies require us to have multiple slots open, or just 1? (i.e. if we have 3 policies to Vassal Support, and 13/14 subordinates, will we get 1 policy worth of loyalty boosts, or 3?
-To add to that, is the passive influence boost from vassal support dependent on there being an open slot just like the loyalty boost, or does it still apply with all slots filled?
-Does the base threshold value for true cities change ever, or will it be 20 forever? If it does change, is the math (# of City Candidates - 1) * 4, like i speculated?
-Would it be possible for you to give us a list of what mines and quarries we have and where, please? we had several that didn't say what provinces they're in, and things like Hatvalley "reclaiming mines" that didn't say what they were, and i dont know if we actually got the location for the gold mine we found right before Phygriff. If nothing else, what mines are in the Heaven's Hawk territory? Is it just the Salt Mine?
-Would it be possible for you to list "specials", like we usually see in the action list, like "innovation chances for boats boosted due ot new design" or "having a mystic hero boosts study actions", listed on the civ sheet, especially for times like this where we dont see the action list? Among other things it would make it easier to know if Tormulyna's bonus would still apply this turn, without having to ask you like i did earlier
-How many of the 3 provinces in Txolla are integrateable right now?
-When we take an integrate action on, say, Txolla or Western wall, would we get a single province per action, or all integrateable provinces at once?
-What exactly got us the walls for the trading post? Was that from a critical? Or did we get an extra Traders Quest and fulfill it before we actually saw it?
-If failing a quest for a faction makes their next (or all future?) quests more likely to be bad, does succeeding a quest make their next (future) quest(s) better?
-Now that we've completed 5 Megaprojects, a wonder, and are almost done with a 6th megaproject, how do we compare on megaprojects with the Khemetri? Have we finally surpassed them on that too?
-For the grand docks, how far are we from "classical" boat innovations? Like...what "age" are our current boats in, and how many ages away is classical from that?
-Shouldn't it have taken a full turn after completing the priest quest to get a new one?
-How likely is it that the current priest quest's innovation will boost RA tolerance, if we can know that?
-The palace annex limit is out of date, it should be 15 now (2 (Base) + 4 (8 Provinces) + 9 (Landed Subordinates)), or 17 after the 2 free cities come into play.
And a couple minor holdover questions from last time:
-Are we trading case hardened iron tools/weapons, or just "regular" iron?
-Is the Trade dominance bonus for Iron in addition to, or instead of the usual wealth bonus from dominating trade? THat is, if we had 10 trade goods at leading or higher, including iron, would we have +5 wealth total (Iron +1, then 9 "normal" trade goods round down to +4), or +6 (+1 iron, then 10 trade goods for 5, with iron counting for that as well)?
True Cities And Relevant Infrastructure-Valleyhome [Aqueduct, Baths, Sig. Walls, Capital, Palace] (25 EE Threshold)
[6 Potential cities, 20 Base Threshold):
-Sacred Forest [Aqueduct, Sig. Walls] (23 EE Threshold)
-Redshore [Aqueduct, Sig. Walls] (20 EE Threshold) [Baths In Progress: 2/3]
-Stallion Pen [Aqueduct, Sig. Walls] (16 EE Threshold)
-Redhills [Aqueduct, Sig. Walls] (11 EE Threshold)
-Lower Valleyhome [Aqueduct, Sig. Walls] (4 EE Threshold)
-Greenshore Capital [Aqueduct, Sig. Walls?] (In Subordinate)
-Western Wall Capital [Aqueduct, Sig. Walls?] (In Subordinate) [Governor's Palace in Progress 6/9]
Libraries:-Sacred Forest (Temple, Megaproject, +1 Refund by itself)
[Total effect: 2 Mysticism Refund]
-Valleyhome (True City)
-Valleyhome (Palace Annex x2 = 1 National Library)
-Stallion Pen (Temple)
Temples-Sacred Forest in Sacred Shore (Lv 2)
[3 Total Temple Levels, 1 Natural Wonder]:
-Dragon Graveyard in Stallion Province (Lv 1 + Natural Wonder)
Salterns/Salt Mines:-Southshore (Lv 1 Saltern)
[Support: 2 Trade Posts, 1 Grand Docks]
[Total Effect: +3 Wealth/turn]
-Northshore (Lv 1 Saltern)
-Heaven's Hawk (Lv 1 Salt Mine) (In Subordinate, Applies to Core Anyway)
Governor's Palace:-Western Wall (In Subordinate) [6/9 In Progress]
[Total Effect: -0 Min Centralization Tolerance, +0 Admin-Free True Cities]
Colossal Walls:None in Core or Subordinates
hi
- Pronouns
- He/Him
They just really want servants to take care of the little everyday shit, and artisans are expensive, farmers don't want to work for them, and there are all sorts of problems with half-exiles. Low status labourers from outside the system are ideal for that sort of thing. They don't have to be slaves, you can free them upon arrival, but that's what they wanted. Fortunately you got enough from refugees that that wasn't a problem.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Slogans are catchy and all, but who do you propose to fulfill the void left by offing the Patricians?
Hyacinthium
Writing about sad cannibals as we speak.
- Location
- Bedroom
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't think the super rich would see a difference between slaves and refugees tbh.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm pretty tired so I will probably do some informational posts on social structures and the like later.
Also, dragons!
Also, dragons!
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
By that point, the argument is moot, as they are obviously in no condition to enforce their monopoly over the Straight of Trell.
Hyacinthium
Writing about sad cannibals as we speak.
- Location
- Bedroom
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Clerks. Wait are they already a faction?
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
- Location
- Austria
I am confused but excited.