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Paths of Civilization

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I'm totally in favor of magic being a thing if that is a choice we get to make, but I always want to make sure we look at both sides of the coin.

For example our genius needn't have known the comet was going to impact, she just needed to know it would return(which I believe we have enough records to justify). Then, given the current political climate she just realized that it returning with no response would be an unmitigated disaster and had the government start making moves to tilt things in their favor.

Then, it hit.....and yea totally we saw that coming. The gods were angrier than we thought, better build a kickass shrine.

tl;dr she could have been a political science master/social physiologist instead of a genius astrologer. The outcome would be roughly the same and require way less magic.
Edit: that would be in addition to the amazing math abilities showcased
 
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TheDanishLord said:
@BungieONI what is the the hapcon on after that
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Uhhhhh...

Well...

Unchanged really. We sorta... did this all by accident? The Hap-Con is more about how close we the thread are to kicking a war mission and starting the Exterminatus.

Much less connected to a Gigantic Fuck You From The Skies.


Also to the Thread at large I am now convinced something is up with Yenyna, in particular, because of this which I went back and re-read:
Academia Nut said:
Of course, the rumour of the Dragon General and her son being brought forward to lead the armies had run ahead of their movements, and the Thunder Horse had enough warning to begin redeploying to counter the movements they expected.

Camped out on the river separating their territory from the Thunder Horse, Yenyna sat upon her chair watching the opposite side as twilight ate away the last of the red of sunset in the world. All of a sudden she began to scream, gazing up at the sky in terror. An attendant ran to her, and he managed to get from her lips:

"crows, a sky full of them"

Then she went quiet and gazed up in horror, looking to the western sky.

To the rapidly brightening western sky.
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So to parse out the series of events as I read them here:

Yenyna is looking east across the river towards the Thunder Horse as twilight encroaches.
She sees the vision that makes her scream.
Which she then describes as "crows, a sky full of them" to an attendant.
Then after this she is looking west, which means she had to physically turn around.
And then she is the first to note the brightening, in the text.

So what I get when I string this together is that she saw a thing that told her death in the east, caused by something in the west.

I am now very confused/excited/mind blown. I have no idea what this is.
 
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Falconis said:
For example our genius needn't have known the comet was going to impact, she just needed to know it would return(which I believe we have enough records to justify). Then, given the current political climate she just realized that it returning with no response would be an unmitigated disaster and had the government start making moves to tilt things in their favor.
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The moves she suggested would only be good for us if it hit the TH though, if it just passed by the course of action would have instead compounded the panic to make things worse for us overall.

BungieONI said:
So what I get when I string this together is that she saw a thing that told her death in the east, caused by something in the west.
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Yeah, the whole direction thing was what made it so weird.
 
DragonParadox said:
I just realized something interesting, bot our merc companies were founded by women. I wonder if that leads to more women in the ranks of the companies?
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That would be cool.


I could see the Dragon Banner having more women, because it is more cavalry and chariot focused, and our horses are still not big enough in large enough numbers to really have lots of men horse riders. So yeah the horse riders in the Dragon Banner are probably majority female, with a section of young teen boys and smaller men.
 
Falconis said:
For example our genius needn't have known the comet was going to impact, she just needed to know it would return(which I believe we have enough records to justify). Then, given the current political climate she just realized that it returning with no response would be an unmitigated disaster and had the government start making moves to tilt things in their favor.
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Except, as I noted earlier, the impacting object is not visible to the naked eye till the moment it hit the atmosphere.

Edit :

Also, there was no returning comet. Comets, especially the ones we can actually track with our primitive technology, and big spectacular affairs. They have big tails and are a prominent thing in the night sky.

Comets like this are visible for months, and stay visible for months.
 
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I'm not fully convinced of magic.

But if it exists, Genuises seem to be magic. Which leads me to ask: "What are you waiting for, Hertythyn?"
 
10ebbor10 said:
Except, as I noted earlier, the impacting object is not visible to the naked eye till the moment it hit the atmosphere.

Remember, there was no comet. If there had been a comet that impacted, all life in the area would have been gone.
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It was my understanding that this object from space was the 'death comet' we've observed and been affected by in ages past. That is what I've gathered from the chat in the thread, but if that is not the case then the situation would be different.

If this is indeed an object we have seen pass us several times before that for whatever reason has had its orbit decay to the detriment of the Thunder Horse then they wouldn't need to see it to know its coming because they have records of it coming before. If this is some random space rock that we have never encountered before then the meter swings way harder towards magic because yes we'd definitely have no way to see this coming with the tech we've been told we have.
 
@Academia Nut
AN you made a miscalculation in regards to our Cent
We should be at Cent 5 and not 4

Academia Nut said:
Enforce Justice - The king is a servant of the law, and he can use the army to remind people of that fact [GJ]
* S: 1 Stability, +1-3 Centralization
* M: 1 to 2 Stability, +2-3 Centralization
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Academia Nut said:
New Trails - There are many settlements with only marginal trails, so more could be useful. 2/3 to next Centralization cap increase (7/16)
* S: -1 Econ, +1 Centralization, +1 Diplo, other effects
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Academia Nut said:
Actions Taken
[Main] Enforce Justice
[Sec] Change Active Policy – Balanced
[Sec] Build Chariots
[Guild] Grand Docks
[Free] Policy – Infrastructure

Provinces – [Sec] Sailing Mission, [Sec] Study Stars, [Sec] New Settlement, [Sec] New Trails
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[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)
[X] [Diplo] Let's maybe spread out in case the gods throw another bolt (Found Far Northern Trade Post)
[X] [PSN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
[X] [PSN] Lots more black soil (Main Black Soil, -2 Centralization)
Adhoc vote count started by sidestory on Aug 6, 2017 at 5:15 AM, finished with 97087 posts and 107 votes.
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Adhoc vote count started by sidestory on Aug 6, 2017 at 9:28 AM, finished with 97248 posts and 124 votes.
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[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Refugee] Use the military to evacutate as many as possible (8 temporary Econ damage, -9-11 Econ Expansion, -2 Stability, chance of further loss, +9-11 Econ next turn, incompatible with most ambitious conquest option)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Stay home, write panic driven poetry (Main Build Theatre)
[X] [PSN] Lots more black soil (Main Black Soil, -2 Centralization)
 
@Academia Nut, what is the narrative of the salt gift here? Does it count as a turbo boosted trade mission? A show if force or an appeal? And would the current circumstances make the receivers give up more than expected in return?

And is it at all possible for the Highlanders or others to willingly come forward and bend the knee if we salt gift following the meteor?
 
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Romv said:
No it's not, it's saying "without the police, there seems to be no punishment." Which seems true?
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Sociology is pretty damn magical, people, not ALL people, but a majority of people acknowledge that they can and should obey the Law.
That is a pretty real effect. Not unlike acupuncture and using soothing chants to treat stress. Just because its in your head doesn't mean ita not real
DragonParadox said:
I just realized something interesting, both our merc companies were founded by women. I wonder if that leads to more women in the ranks of the companies?
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They're described to be hyper elite, so probably. We do employ women warriors, and the gender gap in raw combat skill at the best of the best layer is a lot slimmer than at the bottom(where size and strength just matters a hell lot more)
10ebbor10 said:
Except, as I noted earlier, the impacting object is not visible to the naked eye till the moment it hit the atmosphere.

Remember, there was no comet. If there had been a comet that impacted, all life in the area would have been gone.
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And also it was moving fast enough to make a sonic boom. You can't see or feel it until it hits.
She knew the direction of death and the origin of death, both of which wouldn't be physically possible to obtain even with modern instruments.
 
Romv said:
I'm not fully convinced of magic.

But if it exists, Genuises seem to be magic. Which leads me to ask: "What are you waiting for, Hertythyn?"
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Yeah. I'm much much much less certain of what is going on, and it's incredibly exciting, but I agree that the weirdness is localized in our Geniuses.

My current running theory to explain this mechanically when it comes to the dice themselves(may they be ever merciful) is that the presence of a Genius warps their associated dice rolls into the weird.

Narratively we get this kinda thing happening, and the distinct possibility that they are doing something outside the normal rules.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
The moves she suggested would only be good for us if it hit the TH though, if it just passed by the course of action would have instead compounded the panic to make things worse for us overall.
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I can't really say anything about this, I am just a simple scrub without the political knowledge to argue how effective our actions would be. Especially not at 4 in the morning.
So I'll take your word for it then unless someone proves otherwise.

If thats the case then I guess we're damn lucky.

Anyway im out, ideas presented, gl dudes.
 
Falconis said:
I can't really say anything about this, I am just a simple scrub without the political knowledge to argue how effective our actions would be. Especially not at 4 in the morning.
So I'll take your word for it then unless someone proves otherwise.

If thats the case then I guess we're damn lucky.

Anyway im out, ideas presented, gl dudes.
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Toodles! Sweet dreams!


We'll be here scratching our heads!
 
Falconis said:
It was my understanding that this object from space was the 'death comet' we've observed and been affected by in ages past. That is what I've gathered from the chat in the thread, but if that is not the case then the situation would be different.
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As far as I found, that idea is based solely on the fact that Death Comet is from space, and this one is from space too, so they must be the same.

They can't be, however, because Death comet is sufficiently big to kill us all. It would have set everything on fire within a 300-500 km radius.

In addition, we can't actually predict comets nearly well enough to do this. Predicting their return within a decade or two is on the edge of plausible. But, within a year, never. See, perturbations caused by Jupiter and Uranus and all other outer system planets change the orbit regularly. We don't even know some of these planets exist. We don't know gravity. We can not predict this.

Most importantly, in order for the fragment to be small enough not to blow us up, it would be so tiny that we couldn't see it till it was right on top of us.
 
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Looking at our subordinate slots we've got 8 full right now and 12 total

probably adding
+1 TS
+1 TH
Maybe
+TP

So that will leave us only one open slot in the future, though of course we're close to another one opening from prestige so surprisingly we're actually still doing alright here. If we want stuff like another march or to try the standing army idea we'll probably need to start eating peripheries though, which we don't actually have that much room for, we're starting to get towards our soft cap of 12 there.

Falconis said:
If thats the case then I guess we're damn lucky.
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Honestly no matter what the explanation ends up being I think we must've gotten pretty damn lucky to end up like we did.
 
You know.

Given Yenyna's deeds, from both the war and her "vision" prior to the comet hitting, I'm wondering how she's going to fit into our mythology. If I recall correctly, since we've left the "Age of Gods" where our heroes were getting deified due to our lack of a written script and oral history being distorted, most of our heroes are now remembered as great mortal men/women.

But given Yenyna's presence in our Trojan war (which might end up becoming our War in Heaven) and an event that might be our greatest religious experience to date....

With our newfound interest in astronomy, the construction of the Temple, the likely golden age and era of peace, I'm kinda hoping her death will be the starting point of our calendar.
 
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Carrnage said:
Poor clerks even when they perform miracles people still think they aren't magic.
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Compared to the 'feats' of the other Geniuses, he'd have to find a way into L-space to be as fancy.
veekie said:
Sociology is pretty damn magical, people, not ALL people, but a majority of people acknowledge that they can and should obey the Law.
That is a pretty real effect. Not unlike acupuncture and using soothing chants to treat stress. Just because its in your head doesn't mean ita not real
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Sure, not saying the Law and belief in the Law don't have any effect.
But the original argument was that there was no magic punishment appearing, and only our proto-police force. In other words, any punishment came from people actively administering it, not passively from our Law working. I was only responding to a bad analogy, not to idea that the Law has power.
 
Soo people already figuered what actions we take next turn ?

I figured it should be something like this
[Main] Influence Subordinate - TH
[Sec] New Trails
[Sec] Palace Annex -Shrine

Influence Subordinate for supporting the rebuilding of the damaged TH and in order to bring them closer to us
New Trails cause we always need more trails and more cent
Shrine cause it would upgrade our palace shrine into a temple and allow the king to have a greater say in spiritual matters, which I translate to having a greater RA tolerance, which we really need after what happened, especially given that we will still passive upgrade the Sacred Forest tempel, whether we want it or not
Adhoc vote count started by sidestory on Aug 6, 2017 at 8:15 AM, finished with 97192 posts and 117 votes.
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[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Black Mirror
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Let's maybe spread out in case the gods throw another bolt (Found Far Northern Trade Post)
[X] [PSN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)

In veekie I trust, until I've caught up.
 
Oh, and a last thing to put this squarely in the camp of magic.

If your calculations showed that a comet would return. How would you tell that to your King. Would you say :

A) A mysterious tailed star will appear in the sky
or
B) I'll gloss over the details that got us here, but within the turning of the next solstice we must let go of one enemy, take up a shield for a friendly stranger, and bring forth a dragon and dragon egg to the east"

Put simply, our priests did not know or predict the appearance of a comet. They predicted a vague sense of doom. Had they know or suspected anything about a comet, they would have said exactly.

This is further proven by these bits from the update :

Academia Nut said:
"We're triple - quadruple checking in some instances - the horoscopes, but yes, that is what we have drawn from the secondary and tertiary calculations."
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Academia Nut said:
The astrologers shook in terror that first night, and then again once their fears were confirmed by wide eyed couriers. This could have been them, and their predictions only gave vague warnings!
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They never mention or talk about a comet. Quite simply, because they didn't know.

They had a vague warning about something bad, not the idea that a comet would appear, and no comets did.
 
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