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Paths of Civilization

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[] [Conq] Just the western parts (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, rest of the Thunder Horse fragment into desperate city states)

Slow and Steady

[] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)

Golden Age, Golden Age, Golden Age!!!

[] [PttS] Horse Valley
[] [PttS] 0 Stability
Go big or go home, would go for lower refugees to kick here but I don't really care, either or.

[] [Diplo] Let's maybe spread out in case the gods throw another bolt (Found Far Northern Trade Post)
May as well take care of this early, I've wanted this a long while, and we have the spare Merc unit now.

[] [PSN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
TREES!!! My ideal parties slogan would be Trails, Trees and Justice for all.

All in a block, in case this might turn into a wagon (nu-uh, it can too, even if my name isn't veekie)

[X] [Conq] Just the western parts (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, rest of the Thunder Horse fragment into desperate city states)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Let's maybe spread out in case the gods throw another bolt (Found Far Northern Trade Post)
[X] [PSN] Majorly push forward forests (Main Expand Forests, -2 Centralization)
 
veekie said:
A large natural well actually. Almost exactly Star Mirror, but smaller

-A Place to the Stars is an important cultural site. It will service a large part of the nation as priests travel to it to conduct rituals and ceremonies. Poor accessibility weakens this element of it's function.

-Cultural continuity is better served by accessible holy places. The net result of a significant holy place that's a pain to travel to is that only the elites will have access to it. Anyone who wishes can travel to Blackriver fairly easily. You could take a week's leave of absence, go there, marvel and come back. Horse Valley, even after we fix the roads, will take much more effort and thus much more limited to social elites who can afford this.

-A unique frame which would be of substantial difficulty to replicate for a long time, and low IC motivation to do so. If we don't take it, we're unlikely to ever take it.

-A forming city means easier access to a body of artisans and scholars. It will be able to house a library during the construction process before the Place to the Stars is completed.

-Because it's situated where a river blocks off one direction of assault, and where reinforcements from the Core can be shipped in quickly. Whereas Stonepen would be slightly more exposed for any force until we build a Great Wall.

-Which isn't fixable, even with the best roads, the water route serves several orders of magnitude more people than the land route.

Finally, if we build the Place to the Stars at Horse Valley, once the era changes it will be a cultural relic.
You don't see people demolishing ancient temples to build observatories on their sites right?
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Shouldn't we focus on our Place to the Stars actually being in the best place to influence the stars, instead of being in a convenient spot?

The people using it would be primarily priests, and those interested in studying the stars likely already congregate around Horse Valley anyways.

Also, I absolutely believe that the Ymaryn would have no problem later adjusting the Temple to better study the stars, as it's primary purpose is to study the stars, and it's secondary purpose is to be a Temple.
 
Academia Nut said:
If you can avoid having a nemesis, then maybe the DB goes away...
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Cool...well good luck with this lot. We'd need everyone to be happy.
Academia Nut said:
The first boom was the meteor passing over the heads of the war camp, the second was the actual impact reaching them.
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Ow, that's fuck scary.
Academia Nut said:
It wasn't a direct hit, but it was a Tunguska grade blast, so "land directly on top" is a bit hard to judge with a 10-30 Mt explosion affecting a Bronze Age city.
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....will this city become a Holy Site if we take that land?

Academia Nut said:
You will incorporate more information into the design.

Spiritual Advisor thinks that Horse Valley is better for building big and seeing, Star Mirror for pure mystic power.
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Right, so basically what is said:
-Horse Valley - Big structures, long distances
-Star Mirror - Maths and mysticism
Sivantic said:
Well there we go @veekie
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Uh, I don't see what he said to be different.
Remember predictive astronomy is mathematics and counted as Mysticism.

A good line of sight to the horizon does not equate to being better for figuring out the geometry of the celestial sphere
Andres110 said:
Its function is looking at the sky, not service. Service is secondary.
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Service is primary for any megaproject. A good site that is hard to reach won't be used nearly as effectively.
 
[X] [Conq] Just the western parts (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, rest of the Thunder Horse fragment into desperate city states)
[X] [Refugee] Send out runners that you have food and intact farmland (6 temporary Econ damage, -6-8 Econ Expansion, -1 Stability, chance of further loss, +6-8 Econ next turn)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
[X] [Diplo] Let's maybe spread out in case the gods throw another bolt (Found Far Northern Trade Post)
[X] [PSN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)
 
veekie said:
A large natural well actually. Almost exactly Star Mirror, but smaller
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Oh, that thing. The pair of wells they had where they noted the change of the light on the walls.

Dig a pair of holes.

"Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth without leaving Egypt. He knew that at local noon on the summer solstice in Syene (modern Aswan, Egypt), the Sun was directly overhead. He knew this because the shadow of someone looking down a deep well at that time in Syene blocked the reflection of the Sun on the water. He measured the Sun's angle of elevation at noon on the same day in Alexandria. The method of measurement was to make a scale drawing of that triangle which included a right angle between a vertical rod and its shadow. This turned out to be about 7°, or 1/50th of the way around a circle. Taking the Earth as spherical, and knowing both the distance and direction of Syene, he concluded that the Earth's circumference was fifty times that distance."

veekie said:
-A Place to the Stars is an important cultural site. It will service a large part of the nation as priests travel to it to conduct rituals and ceremonies. Poor accessibility weakens this element of it's function.
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If it will service a large part of the nation then it offers high traffic flow, which means that the area it's placed in will have a more cosmopolitan culture and more financial support. So we should put it in Stonepen and improve our roads.

veekie said:
-A unique frame which would be of substantial difficulty to replicate for a long time, and low IC motivation to do so. If we don't take it, we're unlikely to ever take it.
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Says you.

veekie said:
-A forming city means easier access to a body of artisans and scholars. It will be able to house a library during the construction process before the Place to the Stars is completed.

-Because it's situated where a river blocks off one direction of assault, and where reinforcements from the Core can be shipped in quickly. Whereas Stonepen would be slightly more exposed for any force until we build a Great Wall.

-Which isn't fixable, even with the best roads, the water route serves several orders of magnitude more people than the land route.
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Sure, Blackriver benefits from a river blocking off one direction of assault. Didn't stop the nomads at all, though.

Stonepen would be slightly more exposed except for the active march in the way. The PttS is on top of some bluffs, isn't it?


The canal goes part of the way. It's ultimately less accessible to randos, but let's be honest and say that the common people are less likely to be interested in just seeing stars, and the priests would be assigned to the position.

veekie said:
You don't see people demolishing ancient temples to build observatories on their sites right?
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europe's old universities, et al disagree
 
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PrimalShadow said:
So did I! I said that those required a conditional event (overflow) and thus it wasn't guaranteed income, just like Efficient Economy needs a condition (Econ >= 10) to trigger our extra point of Wealth income.
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I know now. If you look back at what you quoted, I had edited in an apology while you were typing this post
 
To think the priests were worried about people not listening to them only a few short years ago...

Actually when that temple upgrade gets finished we might be hitting red RA, that'll be uncomfortable I imagine.
 
Hrm.

Honestly, I think the neat thing is that thanks to our Dragon General and her hubby, that we actually learned how to identify people with savant level talents in our society and how to get them to be used. Before this, they probably would have been relegated to sanatoriums or otherwise tucked away where they could be helped--but wouldn't get into trouble. Now it seems we have tests that allow for us to actually identify savants and find out how to use them as a society.

Like, an actual honest-to-goodness Genius with no serious issues, someone who's just legitimately near superhuman, is something that's probably one in a couple billion or so. People with incredible talent that comes at some mental cost are much more common.

And the advantage to what we took back then lead to us trying to identify these hyper-specialists and find a way for them to help out doing the thing they're really, really good at. Hence how we've learned to tap Genius-levels when normally Heroic was the top tier.

Like, our new Genius here looks like a mathematics savant, which translates to her looking at patterns and being able to derive meaning from something most people wouldn't notice at all. It translates to a Mysticism Genius becuase our science is basically magic right now. And as we just saw, she literally plotted orbital trajectories based on a few ancient records and figured out that Doom Comet was coming around to say hi and crash on the Thunder Horse's couch for a while.

On an early Iron Age techbase.

That's close enough to Magic for the age that I'm willing to allow her the title of a Mystical Genius.

And the fact we're actually able to make use of these people instead of hiding them away--even coming up with an acceptable explanation for the era? That's practically a superpower.
 
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Umi-san said:
Oh, that thing. The pair of natural wells they had where they noted the change of the light on the walls.

Dig a pair of holes.
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Deeper and wider holes. We can dig, but nobody digs through solid rock if they have a choice.
I mean it's already laid out there. Horse Valley has a great view, but if you want to give the priests a lot of things to study you take Star Mirror.
Umi-san said:
If it will service a large part of the nation then it offers high traffic flow, which means that the area it's placed in will have a more cosmopolitan culture and more financial support. So we should put it in Stonepen and improve our roads.
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Which would be a brighter idea to put it in an area which is well watered and accessible to half the country within a week of sailing rather than put it up a mountain in a place accessible to only 1/5th of the country over a week of riding?
Umi-san said:
Sure, Blackriver benefits from a river blocking off one direction of assault. Didn't stop the nomads at all, though.

Stonepen would be slightly more exposed except for the active march in the way. The PttS is on top of some bluffs, isn't it?
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Blackriver was never successfully attacked by Nomads. Stonepen was razed once when they got through the Stallions.
Rivers are handy like that.
 
veekie said:
Uh, I don't see what he said to be different.
Remember predictive astronomy is mathematics and counted as Mysticism.

A good line of sight to the horizon does not equate to being better for figuring out the geometry of the celestial sphere
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Except that is not what he said. He said it is good for Mystic Power. Meaning it is useful bells and whistles to wow an audience.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Concho117 on Aug 6, 2017 at 2:27 AM, finished with 96831 posts and 75 votes.
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[X] [Conq] Take the northern lowlands (Thunder Speakers become vassal, Txolla annex additional territory, gain Ruined Thunder Horse as vassal, remainder fragment, -4 Econ and 4 temporary Econ damage from supporting wrecked vassal)
[X] [Diplo] Send out reassurances (Sec Trade Mission to Khemetri, Trelli, and Harmurri)
[X] [PSN] Bit more black soil (Sec Black Soil, -1 Centralization)
[X] [Refugee] Use the military to evacutate as many as possible (8 temporary Econ damage, -9-11 Econ Expansion, -2 Stability, chance of further loss, +9-11 Econ next turn, incompatible with most ambitious conquest option)
[X] [PttS] Horse Valley
[X] [PttS] 0 Stability
 
Sivantic said:
Except that is not what he said. He said it is good for Mystic Power. Meaning it is useful bells and whistles to wow an audience.
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Reminder that Mystic Power includes the ability to predict droughts and floods, as well as fighting diseases, and making plants grow well. Mystic Power is what lets you form things in stone, and to turn poisonous waste into colorful dyes and soap.

It's not just bells and whistles here. Our Mysticism is our Science stat.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
To think the priests were worried about people not listening to them only a few short years ago...

Actually when that temple upgrade gets finished we might be hitting red RA, that'll be uncomfortable I imagine.
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Good point. We'll probably want to put off the upgrade to Dragon's Graveyard for a bit. There goes that Mysticism drip.

Eh. We'll have more time for baths or whatever, and I suppose I can appreciate extra time with Sacred Forest being the bigger temple, so I guess it is fine.

Hopefully we can get to 9 without it being red...
 
veekie said:
Deeper and wider holes. We can dig, but nobody digs through solid rock if they have a choice.
I mean it's already laid out there. Horse Valley has a great view, but if you want to give the priests a lot of things to study you take Star Mirror.
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Star Mirror is not a well and does not have another well to compare w/, atm.
Everything Star Mirror offers Horse Valley can be fashioned to offer, giving us engineering habits we can apply elsewhere.

veekie said:
Which would be a brighter idea to put it in an area which is well watered and accessible to half the country within a week of sailing rather than put it up a mountain in a place accessible to only 1/5th of the country over a week of riding?
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An area which already has high traffic throughput and thus benefits the cosmopolitanity of the surrounds not at all.

veekie said:
Blackriver was never successfully attacked by Nomads. Stonepen was razed once when they got through the Stallions.
Rivers are handy like that.
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Blackriver was razed by the nomads. They just left through Stonepen.
 
It's pretty cool how both of our Mercenary Companies were built off the backs of our Heroes.
It really helps to paint them as professional organizations for the Best of the Best, instead of just as a way to kill people for money like the Trelli use theirs.
 
Bleh, going out now, have fun guys.

Umi-san said:
An area which already has high traffic throughput and thus benefits the cosmopolitanity of the surrounds not at all.
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Thats not how traffic works? By increasing the demand at a nexus of trade, you can exert cosmopolitan cultural influence over a greater area than putting a high demand location at a remote place. People visit Blackriver from all across the country, then go home to tell everyone that this is what it means to be Ymaryn.

People won't visit Horse Valley unless they live in three specific provinces, or are the top 1% of the population that can afford a months long journey out of personal interest.
 
Academia Nut said:
The Stallion Tribes were still mostly intact, but word had reached them from the territories to the south: a large section of the nomads had bypassed them a snuck into the lightly defended south while the majority of the People's warriors were in the north dealing with the majority of the nomads. The nomads had been clever and had avoided contact with the larger settlements, but they had pillaged, raped, and murdered their way through Northshore before exiting out through the northern edge of Stonepen and eastern edge of the Stallion Tribes, heading north and east, no doubt to link up with the remainder of their forces and then escape with their ill-gotten gains.
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@veekie nvm, northshore
still shows the vulnerability. Blackriver only has a river on one side.
 
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