Epic Age VII - Fin
[X] Offer tribute (-5 Prestige, -10 Wealth, keeps King of the Hill, chance of +1 Stability)

When it came down to it, the offer of exchanging tribute for keeping their land and people and stopping the fighting was not terribly controversial. There were many who were passionate and angry at the prospect of rewarding those who had killed so many of their best and brightest, but ultimately the objective of the war was to get the Khemetri to back off, and if this did it, then this did it. Even if they were as treacherous as the Highlanders, it would give the People at least a generation to weep their tears and recover from their losses.

Thus it was that the People gathered together the greatest diplomatic mission in their history, loading up a fleet of longships with all the finest goods they have to offer. Sailing them down the River Hat, they were then hauled across the passes and into Gulvalley, where they set sail down the River Gul, into Khemetri territory. At the end of the River Gul lay a great sea, one said to be endless, and they sailed along the coast south, hopping from town to town until they reached the mouth of another great river and sailed inward.

What a land they beheld! Endless leagues of desert on either side of what was perhaps the greatest river in the world, but every last scrap of fertile land upon the banks of the river was either under cultivation or housed a great city. None perhaps as great as even Redshore, but as they sailed for days on end in the endless water road, the diplomats of the People knew that even though they had their own great works back home, the Khemetri were at least their peers and both sides could have simply kept throwing bodies at each other and made little headway past their respective colonies. Especially since they both had river or sea access from their core territories but the territory in between was rugged hills with only a few controllable passes, which meant that both would have been hard pressed to strike the core territories of the other. At best they would have been able to peel of a colony or two or humiliate the opposition, but actually bringing them to their knees would have been nearly impossible.

And then the mountains came into view. At first the sailors and diplomats could not believe their eyes, but sitting upon a stony plateau in the midst of the great city that was the capital of the Khemetri there were a trio of dazzling white triangles, each of their tips blazing like beacons under the hot southern sun. Clearly made by the hands of man, the mind faintly boggled at the sheer scale of the monstrously huge things. They looked more like the creations of gods than men, and with the royal palace complex sitting in the shadow of these works, it was easy to see how kings might think that they could take on any foe with little effort.

The diplomats were lead into a massive complex - part palace, part temple, part small city - where they were lead into buildings of smoothly cut and polished sandstone and limestone covered in carvings, no doubt telling the deeds of past kings and gods. Stone pillars taller than trees reached for the heavens - indeed, in one part of the complex this was almost literal, for the roof was black painted plaster with gemstones pressed into the ceiling in the positions of the great stars in the sky - and the pure scale of it all left the delegates of the People feeling very, very small. Finally they arrived at an enormous courtyard of white stone pillars and tiles surrounding a pool of clear water, that through some architectural magic seemed to sustain a bubble of cool air in the ferocious desert heat. Courtiers in fine white linens and cotton watched in interest, while the way forward was flanked by rows of hard faced warriors in gleaming bronze. Sitting upon a massive throne of stone decorated in blue gemstones and surrounded by servants and exotic animals was the King of the Khemetri.

Lord Djebipt, Master of All, the Sun Made Flesh, He Who Makes the Waters Flow.

Reshemhetari.

Through translators the groups greeted each other, and the young prince turned king was saddened to say that his father had passed away unexpectedly shortly after he had arrived home with the news of the negotiated truce, but that this also made his acceptance of their tribute all the simpler. For one, he required no convincing that they had earned their place in attendance in his court. While not superior to the Khemetri, the People were to be acknowledged of as peers and, if they would have it, brothers as well. While his own children were not yet of age to marry, the king had many sisters who would make a fine wife or concubine for the king of the People.

What then followed was something of an explanation of the People's politics, much to the obvious confusion of everyone in attendance, before Reshemhetari answered rather candidly -and was translated with some confusion-, "I have many sisters, but I shall work to ensure the issue is compensated for as well as possible for the next generation."

From the happy looks on a few noble's faces, it was suspected that a few families were about to get a female voice very close to the ear of the king

It seemed that when told that there was no single royal family for the Khemtri king to marry into, the obvious solution was to marry into all of the People's noble families. The diplomats suspected incoming shenanigans that would be popularized by pottery artists and playwrights lacking in dignity. In any case, as the tribute was piled up for the king, they all noticed the way that one of his eyes was twitching slightly. While they were all pretty obviously amazed by the works of his people, for the man who had commanded one half of the Battle of Bloodvalley to see his former enemies piling up several hundred ox-weights of silver, salt, dye, tin, glass jars with mercury, and a few sets of gilded scale - militarily inconsequential but an obvious show of wealth and prestige - and he knew that if he sailed north he would find a kingdom that was peer to his own.

At the banquet in the evening, the king came up to the delegates from the People and asked if perhaps the commander at the Battle of Bloodvalley was among those present in the delegation. When informed that she was not, the king paused in contemplation before he said something that his translator had to ask if he actually wanted passed along. After confirming it so, the translator passed along the statement, "I am frightened, but aroused."

Legacy Gained
Kings Do Not Kneel (Three): Gain +1 Martial every phase during a Take the Crown or Great Power war
Gain +2 Diplo -> Overflows to +2 Culture

Far away, not knowing the developments his diplomats were getting up to, King Desdydyn was sitting with Yenyna, quietly observing her. While he felt distinctly bad for her, it was impossible to say that her affliction had not been of tremendous good for the kingdom. There were even a few who were whispering that perhaps they should see to breeding her like a sacred cow or war horse. The idea repelled Desdydyn, a man who had grown up surrounded by similar people to the Dragon General and who knew how damaging trying to impose things upon those who had suffered spiritual damage of some sort could be. However, there was a fascinated flicker within him that disgusted him of the fact that it would be absolutely fascinating to see if her spiritual skills could be passed down to her children. Although, he suspected that what the poor girl really needed was someone who could be her companion and truly understand her. That sort of search could be... interesting, to say the least. The kingdom owed her a significant debt though, so it might be worth it.

Especially if, as the guilty part of his mind kept whispering to him, they found a nice man she could understand and their babies had some of her genius.

Heroic Mystic King looking over a spiritually damaged Genius Martial, what might that do?
[] [Mystic] Study her condition only slightly
[] [Mystic] Get assistance from a temple (-1 Mystic)
[] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)

The Trials of an Age are ending, but the cauldron still boils with the spark of genius. Pick another hero
[] [Hero] The next heir was forged in this war (Guaranteed Heroic heir in the next main turn)
[] [Hero] The smiths working overtime produced a prodigy (Heroic to Genius level artisan)
[] [Hero] The battlefield created a peerless medic (Heroic to Genius level medical mystic)
[] [Hero] One of the negotiators truly shone among the Khemetri (Heroic to Genius level diplomat)
[] [Hero] Organizing all of this was hell, but one clerk refused to buckle (Heroic to Genius level administrator)
AN: Incidentally, guess what the Khemetri used this turn's hero bonus on?

Beyond those concerns, there was also a question about reconstruction efforts. Gulvalley had been utterly ravaged, and while supplies were being directed in, the governor was rather desperate for further assistance, and was willing to surrender a number of rights in order to get that. Many clerks also noted that between the Trelli colony and the Khemetri colony, Gulvalley was going to be rather limited in how much it could expand anyway. Revoking its charter as a colony and integrating it as a province proper could solve a number of problems. Then again, the concentrated forces of the Stallions could be reworked across the territory of the People, replenishing the depleted ranks of warriors of the People. They could potentially also tap some of the warriors in the colonies in a mass resettlement.

Reorganize provinces?
[] [Prov] Integrate Gulvalley (-4 Diplo, +3 Econ, +8 Econ Expansion, +2 Mysticism, +3 Culture, +1 Tech, new core province)
[] [Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
[] [Prov] Draw on Provinces (-4 Diplo, -8 Econ Expansion, transfers a total of 8 Martial and 8 Econ from periphery states into the core)
[] [Prov] Rebuild Army first (Main Raise Army)
[] [Prov] Leave the situation be for the moment

Then there was the question of what to do with all of the economic activity that had been freed up recently, and where to direct expansion. The paying out of the Khemetri and the final pay for the Trelli mercenaries before they had left back for their home after being reduced to about a third of their original strength had left coffers throughout the kingdom on the low side, and many patricians were rather annoyed about that. There were definite grumblings about improving that situation, although for quite a few patricians it wasn't just about the money. There was a push for Redshore to receive extra funds for completing the aqueduct they were working on, with another patrician group looking for getting the experts after to work on a site in Redhills where they wanted the aqueduct for both irrigation purposes and to drive mills for the iron mines in the region. The blacksmiths were also apparently starting to cook up something and needed both the iron mines and the mills in close proximity to each other.

However, there was also some commentary about how the People had suffered so much in the last war because they had not been to war for some time and had thus not gone to battle with the best. While war was obviously bad and they shouldn't pick fights just to stay in shape, there was some suggestion that if perhaps the trained more extensively, maybe had some fake wars, maybe that would help keep them in top fighting shape? And with all of the fresh veterans available right now, perhaps they could make these games the best they could be?

Pick a Reaction Project
[] [React] Build more aqueducts (-2 & -3 Econ to complete aqueducts in Redshore and Redhills)
[] [React] Main Build Glassworks
[] [React] Main Expand Econ
[] [React] Main Expand Snail Cultivation
[] [React] Main Expand Vineyard
[] [React] Main Plant Poppies
[] [React] Megaproject - The Games
-[] [React] Kick Megaproject

Pick Two Passive Policies (Infrastructure x1 + Defence x1 already active
[] [Policy] Agriculture (+1 Econ and -1 Econ Expansion/turn)
[] [Policy] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[] [Policy] Trade (+1 Wealth/turn)
[] [Policy] Armament (+1 Martial/turn)
[] [Policy] Patronage (+1 Culture/turn)
[] [Policy] Mysticism (+1 Mysticism/turn)
[] [Policy] Industry (+1 Tech/turn)
[] [Policy] City Support (2 True Cities have their maintenance paid for each turn)
[] [Policy] Expansion (So long as there is land to expand into, +1 Econ Expansion/turn, reduces threshold to produce new provinces the longer active)
[] [Policy] Innovation (Extra innovation roll each turn)
[] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x1
[] [Policy] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn) x1
[] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[] [Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)

Pick a bonus for retaining King of the Hill in a Great Power War
[] [Bonus] Gain a random value slot
[] [Bonus] Upgrade a random value
[] [Bonus] Free Main Proclaim Glory
[] [Bonus] Free Main Build Theatre
[] [Bonus] At least two technology upgrades (exploding rolls)
 
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It's a legit argument if that was what Max is using. You're giving Max too much credit when he's simplifying a legit foreign policy to the point of a school yard bully.

Realpolitik does not mean 'I can't trust anyone who isn't subservient to me' it doesn't mean foreign interactions need a clear superior and a clear lesser. It means you always need to be running cost/benefit analysis from the other guy's perspective.

For instance, the ideological supposition behind tribute is mutual peace and the hope of good will moving past this tragedy. From a pragmatic standpoint- this guy is going to derive his legitimacy from hyping the Ymaryn up as total badasses capable of fighting the King of Kings. He has to. His means of deriving authority and legitimacy is to make the Ymaryn as intimidating as possible and point and say 'I managed to tie against that'- that's not going to engender feelings of aggression.

To make that even worse- the strategic material the Khemetri need for their tools and arms are owned far out of reach by the Ymaryn. If the Ymaryn block trade, especially a Ymaryn that has the Trelli under boot- Khemettri production and industry grinds to a halt. Their capacity to secure their Levantine holdings from tribal raiders, or their south from Not!Nubians becomes increasingly in doubt.

Then there's the simple cost/risk analysis of expanding and broadening the front against the Ymaryn rather than having resources spent colonizing Not!Libya and Cyrenaica. Or subjugating the Saffron Isles or Not!Cyprus. If the Khemetri and Ymaryn fight again, as history previously states- no one wins. Even if they did defeat the Ymaryn and push them significantly in Asia Minor, their tin supply would still be cut off.

Realistic diplomacy is a thing- saying that it amounts to no foreign interaction besides vassals and lieges is so unbelievably and insultingly infantile- Max has as much understanding of foreign diplomacy as an actual sheep.

Take this as someone who considers 'moral superiority/high ground/diplomacy' as convenient buzzwords to help reinforce legit mutual interests. There's a reason despite being a warhawk and imperialist in this thread, I'm vehemently shouting down warring with Khemetri.

Look ere mate, I perfectly understand the concept of realist diplomacy and approve of it. What I meant is that our end goal should be dominion, and that we should make conduct diplomacy whilst keeping the goal in mind. And am not bloody advocating isolationism. Alliances of convience, active interference, truces, trade relations and so on are bloody necessary. What I objected to was pacts of friendship and other such things. Hell I explained it later on.
Yes I am perfectly aware you can't use diplomacy purely for subjugation. But we can use it to pave the way to subjugation. And yes I know that you can count on self interest to preserve peace and predict how nations act. But I am not advocating peace and friendship.
 
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[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)

Time to rest, young Heroine.


[X] [Hero] Organizing all of this was hell, but one clerk refused to buckle (Heroic to Genius level administrator)
[X] [Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
[X] [React] Build more aqueducts (-2 & -3 Econ to complete aqueducts in Redshore and Redhills)
[X] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x1
[X] [Policy] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn) x1
[X] [Bonus] Free Main Build Theatre
 
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[] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
She deserves the Best of the Best

[] [Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
There will be no better timing.

[] [React] Megaproject - The Games
Also perfect timing, to ensure that our new war innovations and experiences from our veterans do not go to waste.

[] [Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x1
[] [Policy] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn) x1
[] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
These are all pretty good

[] [Bonus] Upgrade a random value
[] [Bonus] Free Main Proclaim Glory
[] [Bonus] Free Main Build Theatre
[] [Bonus] At least two technology upgrades (exploding rolls)
These are also all pretty good.

Wait.. @Academia Nut, do our nobles now have ties of marriage with the Khemetri nobles?
 
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Nope, the guilds are based on occupational admnistration, so every occupation can have a guild, even the farmers.
That was the time were the guilds stabilished.
You do notice the "in Valleyhome", i.e. the big city, part, right?

That is also why Guild Mercantile decrees that we must use our extra action on artisanal stuff. Because the guilds are artisans' guilds.

Also yay, update. Hrm. So much to decide...
 
[x] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
[x] [Hero] One of the negotiators truly shone among the Khemetri (Heroic to Genius level diplomat)
[x] [Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
[x] [React] Build more aqueducts (-2 & -3 Econ to complete aqueducts in Redshore and Redhills)
[x] [Policy] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[x] [Policy] Trade (+1 Wealth/turn)
[x] [Bonus] Gain a random value slot
 
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Heroic Mystic King looking over a spiritually damaged Genius Martial, what might that do?
[] [Mystic] Study her condition only slightly
[] [Mystic] Get assistance from a temple (-1 Mystic)
[] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
Just to confirm, the last option doesn't put pressure on her to understand her condition like our king half wants and half is worried about, right?

The Trials of an Age are ending, but the cauldron still boils with the spark of genius. Pick another hero
[] [Hero] The next heir was forged in this war (Guaranteed Heroic heir in the next main turn)
[] [Hero] The smiths working overtime produced a prodigy (Heroic to Genius level artisan)
[] [Hero] The battlefield created a peerless medic (Heroic to Genius level medical mystic)
[] [Hero] One of the negotiators truly shone among the Khemetri (Heroic to Genius level diplomat)
[] [Hero] Organizing all of this was hell, but one clerk refused to buckle (Heroic to Genius level administrator)
"heir in the next main turn", so we'd still have the excellent martial guy next turn, and then the new one would take over the turn after?
"Medical mystic"...does that mean they wouldn't be great at alchemy/metal secrets? Would the artisan be good at study metal?
AN: Incidentally, guess what the Khemetri used this turn's hero bonus on?
...Heroic heir maybe? I feel like i missed a hint somewhere...
 
[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
[X] [Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
[X] [Hero] Organizing all of this was hell, but one clerk refused to buckle (Heroic to Genius level administrator)
[X] [React] Megaproject - The Games
-[React] Kick Megaproject
[X] [Bonus] At least two technology upgrades (exploding rolls)
 
we should get another war hero unit and get the two free tech, we need to tech up again. also set our main hero unit at ease
 
The HK surrendered; the Khem asked for a peace treaty.

There will be no more martial losses until we attack the HK the turn after this upcoming one.

So what are you talking about?
Ok I read the situation wrong. I apologise for being an asshole I thought we were going to gun for HK because of the treachery.

Next time though actually post some info instead of being condescending with just 3+7=10
 
[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease
[X] [Hero] The battlefield created a peerless medic (Heroic to Genius level medical mystic)
[x] [Hero] Organizing all of this was hell, but one clerk refused to buckle (Heroic to Genius level administrator)
[X] [Prov] Integrate Gulvalley
[X] [React] Megaproject - The Games
-[React] Kick Megaproject
-[React] Kick Megaproject x2
[X] [Policy] Defence
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry
[X] [Bonus] At least two technology upgrades (exploding rolls)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade a random value

She deserves it and also will be interesting.
Medical technology is really beneficial and I want us to keep working at it. I also want us to redo the Sacred Warding Megaproject and realize that hey, germ theory is a thing. It's somewhat unrealistic tho.
Integrate Gulvalley because it can't really do much anymore.
Do The Games and kick it twice so that we guarantee its finish.
Technology rolls are nice but so are random social value upgrades. Free main versions of actions we can do anyways aren't very valuable.
 
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[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
She's earned it. A dozen times over.

[X] [Hero] Organizing all of this was hell, but one clerk refused to buckle (Heroic to Genius level administrator)
The People were founded by good Stewards.

[X] [Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)

[X] [Prov] Integrate Gulvalley (-4 Diplo, +3 Econ, +8 Econ Expansion, +2 Mysticism, +3 Culture, +1 Tech, new core province)
We can do both, right?
 
@Academia Nut, can you explain the Yenyna options, please? Like, is the last one just a thinly disguised breeding option or is it a genuine effort to do as much as possible to help her? And what does Yenyna want?
 
All throughout the kingdom news was spread...

We must find a husbando for our Hero lord general !!!!

Soldiers,clerks, and all manner of suitors arrived . Conflicts erupted , more blood was spilt. Great contests were held, and on the end one man stepped forward ...

(Someone for the love of God write an omake of this please)
 
Eh, don't worry about it guys, building big is only an advantage in communal buildings, and if they lived anywhere but the desert such massive buildings would be more hindrance than help. That said... it's a bit teeth-grinding just how close this one was. Whether it was our overall shit rolls, or the fact that everyone and their grandmother decided that now would be a great time to attack us, there was pretty much no way we were ever truly going to win this war. At best, we'd force them to capitulate, which would have been a momentous task in of itself seeing as they ascribe to a god-king theocracy. Still, I can't help but find myself disappointed, despite knowing that there weren't many better ways this could have ended.

I guess I'm just... annoyed. We threw everything we had at them and all we managed to do was match them. I know that there were extenuating circumstances involved, and that the dice were cruel to us, and that pretty much everyone was throwing around heroes like they were candy, but it still grates.
 
Just to confirm, the last option doesn't put pressure on her to understand her condition like our king half wants and half is worried about, right?


"heir in the next main turn", so we'd still have the excellent martial guy next turn, and then the new one would take over the turn after?
"Medical mystic"...does that mean they wouldn't be great at alchemy/metal secrets? Would the artisan be good at study metal?

...Heroic heir maybe? I feel like i missed a hint somewhere...
They probably used it on a Diplomat or something similar, considering they were able to push marriage ties between our nobles and their nobles right after we came for a peace.
 
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