- Location
- Huezil
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Oh and @Academia Nut , when we asked two turns ago, you said only cows pigs and goats were domesticated. Which means we must have domesticated sheep in the last couple of years. How come we have no new options regarding sheep, what with all the benefits they entail, especially in regards to textiles.
Oh and do we have cheese yet?
Oh and do we have cheese yet?
- Location
- Illinois
[X] [Law] Community health
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
ConfusedPotato
Unverified Verifier
- Location
- Australia
[X] [Law] Community health
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
He actually answered you and said we have had GLORIOUS sheep for two to three thousand years.
*thumbs up*
E: actually I kinda want this to be our battle music when we go on the full warpath, full player actions and Offense policy with armament as both passives.
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maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Aye but when asked the same question two turns prior, he said we didn't. So which one is it?
And I wanna know about cheese.
- Location
- Huezil
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Wow! I really like it for this purpose.
It's got this air of the ridiculous about it but also a strong component of ominousness and they go well to create an image of ridiculous ominous and present Doom.
*heads starts nodding along*
- Location
- United States
[X] [Law] Community health
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
- Location
- Huezil
[X] [Law] Balance of interests
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] No, compromise is good (Mediocre Admin and Martial, Average Diplo)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] No, compromise is good (Mediocre Admin and Martial, Average Diplo)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
- Location
- over there
[X] [Law] Community health
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
[X] [Law] Community health
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
I was skeptic about labor, but the arguments convinced me.
As long as our admins keep the labor relatively low skilled and just as the bulk labor that is just necessary in this age, it won't cause too much of an administrative headache. It should also reduce the demand for Half-Exile and scale it back to cases really deserving of it.
And it's true that farmers in this age have a lot of freetime, relatively speaking. Or the work they do is already classified as government work like forest maintainance, walls and the like.
By allowing them to sell their products, we also allow them to accumulate coin to pay with instead. This will cause issues when everyone has coin and the state lacks labor, but that just means we have a very dynamic economy by that point. A luxury problem.
With some luck, our administrators remember the first abortive attempt at fiat currency and allow poorer farmers to just sell their produce and use the money owed for that sale as a coin substitute. With some sense, the Crown will primarily buy from the poorer farmers to support them and leave the wealthier to sell on their own. That way they can just mark the transaction off against the tax.
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
I was skeptic about labor, but the arguments convinced me.
As long as our admins keep the labor relatively low skilled and just as the bulk labor that is just necessary in this age, it won't cause too much of an administrative headache. It should also reduce the demand for Half-Exile and scale it back to cases really deserving of it.
And it's true that farmers in this age have a lot of freetime, relatively speaking. Or the work they do is already classified as government work like forest maintainance, walls and the like.
By allowing them to sell their products, we also allow them to accumulate coin to pay with instead. This will cause issues when everyone has coin and the state lacks labor, but that just means we have a very dynamic economy by that point. A luxury problem.
With some luck, our administrators remember the first abortive attempt at fiat currency and allow poorer farmers to just sell their produce and use the money owed for that sale as a coin substitute. With some sense, the Crown will primarily buy from the poorer farmers to support them and leave the wealthier to sell on their own. That way they can just mark the transaction off against the tax.
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Fiat has some major drawbacks. It is easier to be manipulated compared to coins with intrinsic value. It's a system that highly favors the rich & elites. Also in the age without good counterfeit prevention tech, it is even more vulnerable.
Gold/precious metals linked notes is okay though.
- Location
- Source of confusion itself.
Enforcement mechanic. Which was extremely simple to understand, you just didn't concentrate enough. 90% of it was examples of what the enforcement mechanic causes in this form and that is demanding non-existant things.
Which was said in about the third sentence.
[X] [Law] Community health
[X] [Tax] Food, labour, or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
So as previously mentioned, I heavily favour just going for food, labour or coin. We have already tax both labour and food, so the addition of coin which is comparatively simple to either of them, should mean there would be minimal difficulties. We've also on 3 stability, have acquired various administrative infrastructure such as the library and Palace since then and completed the Census, and have gotten administration techs, and given the leading vote we're also going to be enhancing our government further; all of the above makes me confident we're more than able to handle it. We're in a much better position than where we started the last tax crisis.
Most nations had some synergistic form of labour/food/coin, so there's no reason not to do the same given the flexibility it provides and the distribution of work force, and a further benefit is that this tax system should suffice pretty much until fiat currency.
[X] [Tax] Food, labour, or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
So as previously mentioned, I heavily favour just going for food, labour or coin. We have already tax both labour and food, so the addition of coin which is comparatively simple to either of them, should mean there would be minimal difficulties. We've also on 3 stability, have acquired various administrative infrastructure such as the library and Palace since then and completed the Census, and have gotten administration techs, and given the leading vote we're also going to be enhancing our government further; all of the above makes me confident we're more than able to handle it. We're in a much better position than where we started the last tax crisis.
Most nations had some synergistic form of labour/food/coin, so there's no reason not to do the same given the flexibility it provides and the distribution of work force, and a further benefit is that this tax system should suffice pretty much until fiat currency.
[X] [Law] Community health
[X] [Law] Balance of interests
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
[X] [Bonus] Gain at least two tech upgrades (Admin and Social biased, exploding rolls)
Huh. Same picks as the @veekie wagon.
But there's no way in hell I want to accidentally force a chunk of our society into being incapable of paying their taxes, so labor has to be on the list, and I'd rather pinch shut the tax evasion from "pay in food or coin, whichever's cheaper."
Religious Authority's white at the moment, so the uptick we'll get from a Priest Chief shouldn't break anything, especially since we're not picking Honor the Gods as our philosophy of Law - and the Priests are likely to have a different perspective on what Community Health means than the administrators, and that's something I'd approve of going into the Law.
I continue to push controlled, slow shifts towards a Mixed Economy. Capitalism is too powerful to try to pretend it doesn't exist, and too flawed to abandon everything else for.
Not sure I want to actually permanently incorporate Wildcat, so I'm not voting for the trait slot. Going for better government, instead - especially since we don't have any good way to accelerate tech development in administration.
[X] [Law] Balance of interests
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
[X] [Bonus] Gain at least two tech upgrades (Admin and Social biased, exploding rolls)
Huh. Same picks as the @veekie wagon.
But there's no way in hell I want to accidentally force a chunk of our society into being incapable of paying their taxes, so labor has to be on the list, and I'd rather pinch shut the tax evasion from "pay in food or coin, whichever's cheaper."
Religious Authority's white at the moment, so the uptick we'll get from a Priest Chief shouldn't break anything, especially since we're not picking Honor the Gods as our philosophy of Law - and the Priests are likely to have a different perspective on what Community Health means than the administrators, and that's something I'd approve of going into the Law.
I continue to push controlled, slow shifts towards a Mixed Economy. Capitalism is too powerful to try to pretend it doesn't exist, and too flawed to abandon everything else for.
Not sure I want to actually permanently incorporate Wildcat, so I'm not voting for the trait slot. Going for better government, instead - especially since we don't have any good way to accelerate tech development in administration.
A reminder: having intrinsic value is a significant negative in a currency.
There's a reason everyone in the world's switched to fiat; it works better.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
It's Practicality ethos, asking for the impossible is by definition impractical to the extreme. So your example doesn't make much sense.
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
Choose a philosophy
[] [Law] Honour the gods
[X] [Law] Maintain stability
[] [Law] Balance of interests
[X] [Law] Community health
[X] [Law] Flexibility
[] [Law] Practicality of enforcement
Could be convinced to change my vote with some good arguments.
How can taxes be paid?
[] [Tax] Coin only
[] [Tax] Food or coin
[X] [Tax] Labour or coin
[] [Tax] Food, labour, or coin
Simplifies while making allowances for the poor.
Can food be sold?
[] [Food] Food should not be traded outside the kingdom, except perhaps in times of crisis
[X] [Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[] [Food] The crown will maintain emergency supplies through taxation, the rest is not their concern
Change the heir?
[] [Heir] No, compromise is good (Mediocre Admin and Martial, Average Diplo)
[X] [Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[] [Heir] A strong general is needed in these times (Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Excellent Martial)
This might seem strange but I really want, to see what a Mysticism king coupled with Change policy, progress does. As now that we have the opportunity I want to try it out after law.
Upon completion of the law, choose a bonus
[] [Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
[X] [Bonus] Gain new Social Value slot
[] [Bonus] Randomly upgrade a value
[] [Bonus] Enter Golden Age immediately
[X] [Bonus] Gain at least two tech upgrades (Admin and Social biased, exploding rolls)
Can be convinced otherwise but these are what I lean towards as things we'really not likely to be able to get elsewhere.
The Ymaryn do everything in bursts it seems, it was only four updates ago that we transitioned from oligarchic ancient kingdom and now we are going for Classical Elective Monarchy.
- Location
- Huezil
[X][Bonus] Upgrade government to Classical Elective Monarchy
[X][Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X][Tax] Labour or coin
[X][Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X][Law] Community health
Herp...derp... Pro Societate law all the way, labor or coin will let us make use of actual conscriptions, and let the damn farmers sell the overproduction.
With we are going into Civil Law territory! Yay!
[X][Heir] Let the wise lead us (Poor Martial, Mediocre Admin and Diplo, Heroic Mystic)
[X][Tax] Labour or coin
[X][Food] When granaries are full, those with excess should be able to distribute the fruits of their labour as they see fit
[X][Law] Community health
Herp...derp... Pro Societate law all the way, labor or coin will let us make use of actual conscriptions, and let the damn farmers sell the overproduction.
With we are going into Civil Law territory! Yay!
TheDanishLord
Viking Warlord
- Location
- Denmark
i whant this to be the theme of our industrial age
Care to elaborate?
Advantage that I can think of for Fiat includes ability to control circulation via interest manipulation of central bank.
I'm not sure we're ready/need for that anytime soon.
In order for it to work, TRUST is a must, and we need to have enough political/military/trade power to safeguard the trust & enforce its value. Heard that oil trading was once, one of the pillar for dollar before everyone starts to use it every where.
Having intrinsic value reduce the risk for the lower income group against inflation. Since the land (and hence mines) , belong to the government, I don't foresee major issue with precious metal supply/demand
Advantage that I can think of for Fiat includes ability to control circulation via interest manipulation of central bank.
I'm not sure we're ready/need for that anytime soon.
In order for it to work, TRUST is a must, and we need to have enough political/military/trade power to safeguard the trust & enforce its value. Heard that oil trading was once, one of the pillar for dollar before everyone starts to use it every where.
Having intrinsic value reduce the risk for the lower income group against inflation. Since the land (and hence mines) , belong to the government, I don't foresee major issue with precious metal supply/demand