Paths of Civilization

ThrawnCA · Jul 14, 2017

veekie said:
Which, they are already releasing pirates into our waters for their profit. There are only two means of getting rid of them:

Well, the third option is to simply take our trade elsewhere. Go build bridges with the TS and HK and Swamp People, and leave the Not!Black Sea empty. I'm confident that this mercenary expansion will eventually break them.

You raise a fair point, though, that in the short term, they could field enough armies to make our lives difficult.

What if they immediately send 4 mercenary companies at the west trading post?

ThrawnCA · Jul 14, 2017

veekie said:
Except you are LOSING the long game. The only thing stopping the Trelli from eating the coast is that they only have one Dominance to pay their mercenaries with. Which means they can only fight one front at once.

I still think that that's optimistic. They probably have an evolved trait and gain wealth from our dominances.

Kiba · Jul 14, 2017

ThrawnCA said:
Well, the third option is to simply take our trade elsewhere. Go build bridges with the TS and HK and Swamp People, and leave the Not!Black Sea empty. I'm confident that this mercenary expansion will eventually break them.

You raise a fair point, though, that in the short term, they could field enough armies to make our lives difficult.

What if they immediately send 4 mercenary companies at the west trading post?

How many of them are simply bandits and how many are truly professional soldiers?

ThrawnCA said:
I still think that that's optimistic. They probably have an evolved trait and gain wealth from our dominances.

Which gets canceled out BECAUSE they gained wealth from our dominance.

Reader of all · Jul 14, 2017

ThrawnCA said:
What if they immediately send 4 mercenary companies at the west trading post?

Well if such an unlikely scenario does occur then we will be looking at a failure cascade as divine stewards and lord's loyalty hit us in the balls with stab hits

DragonParadox · Jul 14, 2017

ThrawnCA said:
What if they immediately send 4 mercenary companies at the west trading post?

They only just discovered currency and mercs and you think they have 4 companies?

Finite Magician · Jul 14, 2017

veekie said:
Except you are LOSING the long game. The only thing stopping the Trelli from eating the coast is that they only have one Dominance to pay their mercenaries with. Which means they can only fight one front at once.

Once they take the West Trade Post, they have:
-Strategic resource control to prevent retaliation from the Mediterranean.

-Enough passive Wealth income to finance 3-6 mercenary companies.

By the time we come back with better boats we'd need to assault fortified positions to dislodge them...and we'd STILL be fighting pirates.

On the flip-side, we would only need to take the West Trade Post to start bleeding them tremendously if they are fielding that many mercenaries (which would be a lot easier than holding it and regularly needing to support it with more dudes. Heck, just raze it to the ground as we do to territories too far from us to properly administrate) and with better boats we can push off the naval pressure they are able to put on us now which we are kind of helpless against.

Kiba · Jul 14, 2017

So our mercenaries are like our expeditionary arm, and they are used mostly to defend our territory than to make money with.

DragonParadox · Jul 14, 2017

Finite Magician said:
On the flip-side, we would only need to take the West Trade Post to start bleeding them tremendously if they are fielding that many mercenaries (which would be a lot easier than holding it and regularly needing to support it with more dudes. Heck, just raze it to the ground as we do to territories too far from us to properly administrate) and with better boats we can push off the naval pressure they are able to put on us now which we are kind of helpless against.

Xohyr aside the Ymaryn do not raze cities to the ground. The only reason we got away with that was having a nomad fresh off the steppe in charge and having an emergency back home.

PrimalShadow · Jul 14, 2017

Kiba said:
So our mercenaries are like our expeditionary arm, and they are used mostly to defend our territory than to make money with.

And also as a way to enforce our goepolitical interests in the region by hiring out to the enemies of a polity we want beaten.

BungieONI · Jul 14, 2017

DocMatoi said:
I'm convinced. The narrative is probably gonna kick us in the ass for this, though, given the warning we got.
[X] [Exp] Found Trelli Trade Post, West

It's Crow and Murphy and Takei's domain. I would expect it not to pull punches.

You have my sympathy, cause I'm right here in this boat with you.

Other than this though anyone got bets, and details, on any of our neighbors doing weird shit?

Mine is that the Xoh will suddenly reconstitute next turn from vassals. Because we kicked the Thunder Speakers and Swamp People so hard they stopped warring with us. An eventual baby sis to PTSD-chan, in that case. Actually I wonder if the TH and SP are still warring with each other. That'd be good to know.

McLuvin · Jul 14, 2017

I've said it since we first met the Trelli, they are dicks. I was shouted down over my plans to take them over in a century or so but in the end the Trelli prove conclusively that they are, in fact, dicks and now basically hang a bullseye around their neck for us.

[X] [Exp] Found Trelli Trade Post, West
[X] [Diplo] Need a bigger boat (Main More Boats)
[X] [Int] Party! (Main Improve Festival)

This should prep us for the inevitable showdown

Finite Magician · Jul 14, 2017

DragonParadox said:
Xohyr aside the Ymaryn do not raze cities to the ground. The only reason we got away with that was having a nomad fresh off the steppe in charge and having an emergency back home.

Actually, I think we would be offered the choice. I believe the wording then was "Heroic nomad kings have but one response" (Phygrif is...special like that). As for whether we should or even would take that choice is a different matter altogether.

DocMatoi · Jul 14, 2017

BungieONI said:
Mine is that the Xoh will suddenly reconstitute next turn from vassals. Because we kicked the Thunder Speakers and Swamp People so hard they stopped warring with us. An eventual baby sis to PTSD-chan, in that case. Actually I wonder if the TH and SP are still warring with each other. That'd be good to know.

The lowlands minors, fresh off losing their theological debates, will reclaim Xohyr and try to do it better this time (read: according to the Ymaryn city-style)

veekie · Jul 14, 2017

ThrawnCA said:
Well, the third option is to simply take our trade elsewhere. Go build bridges with the TS and HK and Swamp People, and leave the Not!Black Sea empty. I'm confident that this mercenary expansion will eventually break them.

Which...just means the pirates start doing coastal raids anyway?

You raise a fair point, though, that in the short term, they could field enough armies to make our lives difficult.

What if they immediately send 4 mercenary companies at the west trading post?

Can't afford to, they've been subsisting on Disrupted Trade status for a long time. But if they COULD, then taking the Trade Post would have allowed them to field seven companies...

My personal best guess if they planned this is 2 companies, one home unit, one foreign unit(i.e. the same as us, with the Hawks).

ThrawnCA said:
I still think that that's optimistic. They probably have an evolved trait and gain wealth from our dominances.

Which...is even more optimistic? If they gain wealth from our dominances, then attacking us over the trade post would be outright stupid.

Finite Magician said:
On the flip-side, we would only need to take the West Trade Post to start bleeding them tremendously if they are fielding that many mercenaries (which would be a lot easier than holding it and regularly needing to support it with more dudes. Heck, just raze it to the ground as we do to territories too far from us to properly administrate) and with better boats we can push off the naval pressure they are able to put on us now which we are kind of helpless against.

Bolded is outright false. We gain massive bonuses on defense. It's our cornerstone trait. Then you factor in having Mortared walls and towers, with skilled archers and shieldwalls.

At the same time, the attacker is always disadvantaged, especially if you're performing an amphibious assault at a long distance.

2xMachina · Jul 14, 2017

Expansion
[X] [Exp] Found Trelli Trade Post, West
[] [Exp] Found Trelli Trade Post, East
[] [Exp] Found Far Northern Trade Post
[] [Exp] Integrate the Stallion Tribes
[] [Exp] Found Mercenary Company
[] [Exp] Do nothing here

External Diplomacy
[] [Diplo] Open fresh trade (Two Sec Trade Missions to neighbours)
[] [Diplo] Demonstrate wealth (Main Salt Gift)
[X] [Diplo] Need a bigger boat (Main More Boats)
[] [Diplo] Tie everything further together (Main New Trails)
[] [Diplo] Stay home, garden (Main Expand Econ)

Internal Focus
[X] [Int] Build palace (Extra megaproject action)
[] [Int] Garden (Main Expand Econ)
[] [Int] Plant forests (Main Expand Forests)
[] [Int] Water wheels are awesome (Main Build Mills)
[] [Int] Party! (Main Improve Festival)

Kiba · Jul 14, 2017

I am disappointed again that they didn't build more boats. But OTOH, we built more watermills. WHEE!

I should update my technology list.

BungieONI · Jul 14, 2017

DocMatoi said:
The lowlands minors, fresh off losing their theological debates, will reclaim Xohyr and try to do it better this time (read: according to the Ymaryn city-style)

Oooooooo. Good one.

I like it for several reasons!

The collective Thread cries of "Huh PTSD-chan you did what!?" would be hilarious.

SUPERIOR URBAN STYLE!

Actually being a semi-reasonable course of action.

The rest of the Lowlands going "Fuuuuuuu-".

The rise of Xoh 3.0: The Xoh-ening. We can finally love the Xoh in our Yangire fashion. Defend to the death!

hylas240 · Jul 14, 2017

[X] [Exp] Found Trelli Trade Post, West
[X] [Diplo] Need a bigger boat (Main More Boats)
[X] [Int] Party! (Main Improve Festival)

Gonna go with this, despite some reservations.

If we set a trade post in the north, we would be faced with having to cover that post and fight the Trelli. At least with the western post we can have our skilled mercenary company right next door to the Trelli when the time comes.

Kiba · Jul 14, 2017

Kiba said:
Watermill Innovation List:

Technical Upgrade:

Waterwheel -> Water Turbine (industrial era)
Watermill -> Windmill
Ship mill
Tide mill
Team boat - Waterwheel propulsion powered by animals.

Applications:

Green is implemented.

Gristmill - Implemented?
Blademill
Barkmill
Blast Furnace
Paper mill
Oil mill - crush seeds into oil
Sawmill
Powder mill
Waterpump
- Noria
Ore Crusher - implemented?

Updated my technology list.

veekie · Jul 14, 2017

Kiba said:
So our mercenaries are like our expeditionary arm, and they are used mostly to defend our territory than to make money with.

We probably could have turned ours to loot/farm slave raids if not for Symphony and Justice

Kiba · Jul 14, 2017

veekie said:
We probably could have turned ours to loot/farm slave raids if not for Symphony and Justice

For some reason, I thought CA was what preventing us to wage wars on whoever we like. No, that was symphony. And now we have a way to gain stability through winning defensive wars.

veekie · Jul 14, 2017

Kiba said:
For some reason, I thought CA was what preventing us to wage wars on whoever we like. No, that was symphony. And now we have a way to gain stability through winning defensive wars.

Which basically means the lowlands can hit us, get smacked, then pay us Stability which we use to Slurp

McLuvin · Jul 14, 2017

Kiba said:
For some reason, I thought CA was what preventing us to wage wars on whoever we like. No, that was symphony. And now we have a way to gain stability through winning defensive wars.

Gaining a Golden Age via kicking the shit out of the Trelli would be hilarious

Kiba · Jul 14, 2017

@Academia Nut

So, we used our watermill to crush ores, mill grains, and make black soils, right?

Wellhello · Jul 14, 2017

[X] [Exp] Found Trelli Trade Post, West
[X] [Diplo] Need a bigger boat (Main More Boats)
[X] [Int] Build palace (Extra megaproject action)

Paths of Civilization

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Carbon-based biped

Working within limits

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Working within limits

Theoretical Lover of Girls

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