So, my furry horror, how do we cheat and become both a sea and land nation? :V
An ancillary point, but I got to ask first before I address the meat.

By growing so big that the sea becomes a lake, and free (less oversight not tax free) shipping enterprise to allow independent companies forming (or transforming land merchant families into sea oriented).
 
I do know this much, they won't spend down to 1, and I am pretty darn sure they won't spend down to 2. What they are really trying to avoid is less than 0. Besides, they can only use three econ at a time on the mega, while we add the other two and get symphony.
As I understand it, the symphony bonus works on the same rules as province actions; they won't "take" it if it brings us below 1 econ.

First and foremost, we probably arent't going to want to do a double main palace next turn.

If the Trrlli declare war on us, we'll either do a war mission or found another mercenary company. If they do not declare war on us, we'll probably grab the cataracts (highland kingdom is going to be explosively growing) and a stability boosting option (golden age).

So we'll only have room for three to four grand palace actions regardless of our resources.

I'll leave the resource math to someone else.
Perhaps we will not want to finish the palace next turn; I think we do, but let's suppose otherwise. If whatever option we take consumes econ, that makes it even WORSE, costing us the Symphony bonus and possibly even the Law bonus. That is as much as two mains that we are losing here, depending on how much resources we spend.
 
[X] [Exp] Found Trelli Trade Post, West
[X] [Diplo] Need a bigger boat (Main More Boats)
[X] [Int] Party! (Main Improve Festival)
Well, this is not an admin vote, so veekie bandwagon probably won't backfire?
 
[X] [Exp] Found Far Northern Trade Post

We are unprepared for a prolonged naval war, we will in the end win, as the Romans did against carthage, for we have more stuff to throw at them. But it will be long and bloody, and so the hk, ts, th, sp and maybe the nomads would consider it prime time for payback since we are focusing and bleeding on the other side of the map. I do not mind wars of such scale, but our system would collapse spectacularly the second we retreat to the inner provinces, leaving us at the utter mercy of the attackers, but again the miracle of house brandenburg Is a thing.
Also access to new resources is always good, and it would give us a foothold in the nomadfree Russian taiga and riverine networks. Lots of potential there.


[X] [Diplo] Tie everything further together (Main New Trails)


We are in dire need of better road systems, so far the core has decent roads, but the rest of the land has to do with dirt trails and goat paths. More decent roads, and better roads for the core are vital, and this is a prime time to do it. Not only for the adminstrive and commercial benefits, but also the cultural and military ones. The ability to quickly shuffle troops internally is utterly vital to our defence, more so since we lack universal Fortifications.


[X] [Int] Build palace (Extra megaproject action)

The quicker this finishes the better, we can't prolong the adminstrive and tax crises any longer than absolutely necessary. It's also likely to give us a very good bonus on completion. We can also spend some turns adding annexes if we finish fast enough.


[X] [Int] Water wheels are awesome(Main BuildMills)

The ability to further boost agricultural production, urbanisation and Mills is staggeringly beneficial. It would free up a considerable part of the population to focus on more noble persuits, such as becoming warriors or joining the clergy. The first is needed if we are to further expand and subjugate would be rivals, or to defend against them. The latter is needed to further expand and enrich our culture and theology, as well as the ritualistic science of the time, and perhaps develop philosophy.
Holy shit, I agree with max for two out of (technically) three votes. What is the world coming to.
 
First and foremost, we probably arent't going to want to do a double main palace next turn.

If the Trrlli declare war on us, we'll either do a war mission or found another mercenary company. If they do not declare war on us, we'll probably grab the cataracts (highland kingdom is going to be explosively growing) and a stability boosting option (golden age).

So we'll only have room for three to four grand palace actions regardless of our resources.

I'll leave the resource math to someone else.
Yeah. Thinking on it more, if either of <War with Trelli> or <Highlanders are expanding> happens, then we can't double main Palace because of other priorities. <War> worse then <Expansion> in my mind. But <War> being less likely than <Expansion>.
Which is not bad per say since with one palace action, and three from the provinces that puts us at seven and the Symphony may trigger('specially with it's recent upgrade) and give us the fifth action putting us at 8 which has a chance to finish it, or finish it on the following mid turn.

The resource math can go die in the Metal Worker's coal fire. Can't math right now.



*scratches beard*

Hrmmm... probably too long for our current tech level and is not a feasible solution to the short term issues in my mind since that looks like a Tier 2 Canal project. However, that said it is a permanent solution and also a hilarious dick move.
 
@Malevolo do you have a song that appropriately represents a culture that is made out of Bullshit so that pbluekan can listen to it while thinking of the shit we can sometimes pull?

Because that should be our theme for whenever we get onto doing these crazy land projects.
 
Symphony -> Joyous Symphony
All have their part to play in this world, be it their interaction with each other, their neighbours, or with the spirits. When all the parts of a group are moving in peaceful accord, the result is greater than the sum of the parts, and transcendental to behold.
Pros: Bonus to collective action, spiritually and ecologically harmonious actions, and to concerted efforts. Gain +1 Stability every time a defensive war non-destructively ends.
Cons: Disharmony is to be corrected, require casus belli to declare war



TRAIT HAS EVOLVED!
 
I really think that the Trelli are overextending here, and it's going to bite them hard.

Remember, there are no "I Win" buttons in this quest. If something seems like a universally-winning combination - eg take slaves, get wealth, hire mercs, take slaves - then it's flawed in some way.

Remember, they didn't develop currency and mercenaries themselves. They copied them from us. But they don't have the social foundations of symphony and peace and acceptance that we do. And they haven't formed companies of their own loyal citizens; they've hired outsiders. And they're stirring up wars left, right, and centre, to trade the spoils.

It's not sustainable. Something has to give. For example, the supply of "unprofitable" tribes may be exhausted, leading to a large dip in trade, and suddenly they can't pay all these mercs. Or someone wealthy and ambitious might turn the tables on them and hire the mercs to raid them back, or even capture the city; remember, these guys aren't actually loyal to Trelli.

We can wait them out. Let's build the east trading post, keep them thinking we're their friends, make them rich enough that they'll overextend, but build up our ability to resist pirates, so they don't bother hitting us, and they instead raid the west until it either runs dry or seeks revenge. Meanwhile, we make friends with all the survivors of the climate crisis, so when the Trelli implode, our trade doesn't.
 
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Well i guess i will put up my view on land focus nation vs sea focus nation in order to sway people to vote for making our nation more united.

Land focus nation (The People and past China, not PRC)
  • Huge amount of land and population potential
  • Headache on managing vast land
  • Humongous production capability from massive amount of material source and area for setting up production.
  • Able to absorb the trade goods if unsold, even at a "lose" (it lost wealth making margin)
  • Able to stockpile goods due to spaceeeee!
  • Massive population for warrior training
Sea focused nation (Trelli and past Dutch)
  • Modest land and population potential
  • No headache in managing land
  • Some headache on tracking budgets and merchants
  • Modest production capacity, limited by production space and reliance on imported materials.
  • Inability to support industry without trade due to small population base.
  • Lesser stockpile room and increased pressure to exchange goods fast.
  • Heavily reliant on foreign warriors due to own population being much more productive and lacking in number.
We are the biggest producer and consumer on this side of the sea. I'm putting our trade goods being significant portion of Trelli's total exchange.

33% from Not!Egypt
33% from Trelli and other trading partner
33% from The People

Trelli is a middle man, they can't absorb that amount of goods. So they buy low from one side and sell high to the other, using the difference to secure more goods and own industry.

Missing 33% of goods from our side (due to hostility) will clog up the exchange because they can't make up the difference.

So, from the above i draw the conclusion that cutoff of trade between us and Trelli will hurt both sides and cause big budget hole on Trelli.


The logic is sound, a but there is one problem, the market vacuum would be filled by someone else sooner rather than later, in which case once we are back in the market it would be at a disadvantage.
 
Econ math for winning vote:
11 (base) - 2 (cities) + 5 (baby boom) - 2 (festival) - 2 (boats) + 2 (boats) - 2 (trading post) = 8

Am I missing something?
 
I really think that the Trelli are overextending here, and it's going to bite them hard.

Remember, there are no "I Win" buttons in this quest. If something seems like a universally-winning combination - eg take slaves, get wealth, hire mercs, take slaves - then it's flawed in some way.

Remember, they didn't develop currency and mercenaries themselves. They copied them from us. But they don't have the social foundations of symphony and peace and acceptance that we do. And they haven't formed companies of their own loyal citizens; they've hired outsiders. And they're stirring up wars left, right, and centre, to trade the spoils.

It's not sustainable. Something has to give. For example, the supply of "unprofitable" tribes may be exhausted, leading to a large dip in trade, and suddenly they can't pay all these mercs. Or someone wealthy and ambitious might turn the tables on them and hire the mercs to raid them back, or even capture the city; remember, these guys aren't actually loyal to Trelli.

We can wait them out. Let's build the east trading post, keep them thinking we're their friends, make them rich enough that they'll overextend, but build up our ability to resist pirates, so they don't bother hitting us, and they instead raid the west until it either runs dry or seeks revenge. Meanwhile, we make friends with all the survivors of the climate crisis.

We can't wait them out because they can solve their issues by just raiding us for our fabulous wealth.
 
Holy shit, I agree with max for two out of (technically) three votes. What is the world coming to.
Well something I realized about 1000 pages back was that he actually has a point with some of the stuff he says.


The logic is sound, a but there is one problem, the market vacuum would be filled by someone else sooner rather than later, in which case once we are back in the market it would be at a disadvantage.
Not unless we take it over and set up shop! :V

Might be tricky though. And kinda shaft the Palace.

So yeah. :evil:


I really think that the Trelli are overextending here, and it's going to bite them hard.

Remember, there are no "I Win" buttons in this quest. If something seems like a universally-winning combination - eg take slaves, get wealth, hire mercs, take slaves - then it's flawed in some way.

Remember, they didn't develop currency and mercenaries themselves. They copied them from us. But they don't have the social foundations of symphony and peace and acceptance that we do. And they haven't formed companies of their own loyal citizens; they've hired outsiders. And they're stirring up wars left, right, and centre, to trade the spoils.

It's not sustainable. Something has to give. For example, the supply of "unprofitable" tribes may be exhausted, leading to a large dip in trade, and suddenly they can't pay all these mercs. Or someone wealthy and ambitious might turn the tables on them and hire the mercs to raid them back, or even capture the city; remember, these guys aren't actually loyal to Trelli.

We can wait them out. Let's build the east trading post, keep them thinking we're their friends, make them rich enough that they'll overextend, but build up our ability to resist pirates, so they don't bother hitting us, and they instead raid the west until it either runs dry or seeks revenge. Meanwhile, we make friends with all the survivors of the climate crisis.
I think they are going to start poking soon(the greed going to their heads you know?), but the rest I agree with. Something's going to poooooop~

And it will be hilarious to watch, if also messy.


Excellent choice. *nods*
 
@Malevolo do you have a song that appropriately represents a culture that is made out of Bullshit so that pbluekan can listen to it while thinking of the shit we can sometimes pull?

Because that should be our theme for whenever we get onto doing these crazy land projects.
Naw man. I've been listening to super chill violin and piano pieces all day to get in the mood to work on an original piece and an omake for this.

Also spent a few hours with this on repeat. It's in welsh so... relevance level is >9000.


Well something I realized about 1000 pages back was that he actually has a point with some of the stuff he says

Just because he has a point doesn't mean I don't often disagree with him.
 
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Naw man. I've been listening to super chill violin and piano pieces all day to get in the mood to work on an original piece and an omake for this.

Also spent a few hours with this on repeat. It's in welsh so... relevance level is >9000.

Should be called Empire of the Tree because trees are just better but good choice.

Hmm I'm spoiled for music choice.

*happy feelings*

Thanks folks!
 
Econ math for winning vote:
11 (base) - 2 (cities) + 5 (baby boom) - 2 (festival) - 2 (boats) + 2 (boats) - 2 (trading post) = 8

Am I missing something?
Festival only costs one, not two. So that puts us at 9.

Except. I'm pretty sure that the one of the econ from boats won't be available immediately, and baby-boom econ may not be available to the provinces, which means that we might have as little as 3 econ available next turn as provinces understand it.
 
[X] [Exp] Found Trelli Trade Post, East
[X] [Diplo] Need a bigger boat (Main More Boats)
[X] [Int] Party! (Main Improve Festival)

The Trelli are clearly about to become a nuisance. Slavery, piracy and military actions seems likely to affect us in the future. By placing the trading post there and garrison it we can use it as a base for future operations.
Our longships will most likely be horribly outmatched by our oppositions vessels, we need to get some bigger and fasters ships.
Lets aim for a golden age! And we can never have to much stability.
 
Econ math for winning vote:
11 (base) - 2 (cities) + 5 (baby boom) - 2 (festival) - 2 (boats) + 2 (boats) - 2 (trading post) = 8

Am I missing something?
Annnnd ninja.

Festival only costs one, not two. So that puts us at 9.

Except. I'm pretty sure that the one of the econ from boats won't be available immediately, and baby-boom econ may not be available to the provinces, which means that we might have as little as 3 econ available next turn as provinces understand it.
All they need and can ever use is three for this mega, so they will still do the max number of actions. :)



Because i have the right music for doing megaprojects man!
EDIT: Best hair!

#BestMusicFinderIsMalevolo.
 
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