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Paths of Civilization

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tryrar said:
I'm still wary of going more than 4 annexes to set up, since we still have to pay for them. I mean, we can expand the temple later if we want you know?
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Well, 5 annexes results in 9-11 actions. That's a lot, but it's not much more than the first Temple (at 9-10.)
 
@ctulhuslp We automatically get the living space for everyone, a clerk area I think, and a great hall. These are the minimums.

Annexes are those listed in the annex list. We get 1 of these for free. It is assumed to be the shrine, because there are consequences for not picking it, but we could do otherwise.

My vote solidifed:
[X] [Loc] Valleyhome
[X] Great Hall Expansion
[X] Shrine
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Gardens
[X] Arsenal
[X] Storehouse

I just like VH too much.
I consider these to be the theoretical minimum necessary for a) technological development and b) allowing for less expensive and more aesthetic expansions later.

The Library, Great Hall Expansion, and Shrine are the only annexes that I consider actually essential. Expanding the Great Hall would simply be too disruptive, so we might as well go big now.
 
The Sandman said:
@Academia Nut, will any expansion slots not used now still be available for the Palace later, or would this permanently determine its size?
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You can build further annexes later, but at 2 Econ and 2 Art per annex.

ctulhuslp said:
Palace costs 4-6 actions +1 for initial annex ( @Academia Nut , does it mean we get Great Hall automatically included?)
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There will be a Great Hall as part of the design, but this is voting to make it Greater. For religious purposes including a shrine is recommended but not required. One annex of any sort is already part of the costs, and can generally be considered to be the shrine, but if you don't vote for a shrine it won't be included.

Umi-san said:
What would it take for us to get a solid connection between the VH and Redshore rivers?
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Either explosives or throwing tens of thousands of bodies at the problem. You would have to dig through a considerable amount of stone to get the grading right.

VoidZero said:
Does that mean building 1 of everything puts action commitment at 9-12 range?
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11-13

notgreat said:
Is 2x Library going to give us the Library refund?
Is 2x Shrine going to give us the bonuses that a normal full temple would provide?
The 5-7 actions is for the Living Areas and a single additional Annex, correct?
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Probably.
Probably.
5-7 for living area, an admin area, and a single annex, yes.
 
ctulhuslp said:
As far as I can see, it adds 3 turns due to how Double Mains work .

With the 3 annexes, we add only 1 turn. With 5 annexes, we add only 2 turns. @Academia Nut ,is it right or is it other way around? I cannot understand what did you mean by 'free' annex, sorry.
I think adding two turns (to the total of 10-12 actions = 5-6 turns, with 1 already done => 4-5) is worthwhile trade. 3 is too greedy.
[X][Loc] Valleyhome
[X][Annex] Shrine
[X][Annex] Garden
[X][Annex] Library
[X][Annex] Storehouse
[X][Annex] Library x2

This is a balanced option with admin emphasis. To cut it down to 3 actions, you can cut out Garden and Storehouse.
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Stop thinking in Double Mains, that's an ideal situation. Think of them as main action commitments, we may well not have the luxury of Double mains with all the balls we have in the air right now.
 
Abby Normal said:
...You know, if your main argument is that we can't spend the actions to build redshore out as a capital, then its a bit hypocritical to vote to add 6 main actions to our palace building, when we're in the middle of two wars, a tax crisis, and more, with low econ and our provinces eating at our wealth for the war...
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Maybe a bit hypocritical, but the fact is, I doubt we are escaping this palace build without a 6 action commitment at the very least. 6 actions is pretty low as far as megaprojects go.

Bringing Redshore up to snuff is 8 actions on its own, to say nothing of additional costs from the changeover.

The other thing is that these annexs directly contribute to solving those issues. I'm not worried about the mechanical costs of the tax crisis. We are in very little danger there, what I'm worried about is actually being able to solve it and do so in a reasonable amount of time. Building another city in Redshore does not, at least in the short to medium term.

Edit: holy hell, AN post. I'm editing my plan. 11-13 actions is so nope it isn't even funny.
 
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Romv said:
I don't get the desire for storerooms. Maybe if we were smaller, or if we were making it a fort, but we'll have enough trouble making a good administrative building.
Though maybe if it were a vault, helping to keep control of the Kingdom's money supply ... I know nothing about economics.

We're better off adding more libraries, or even a great hall extension.
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A large part of our economy is built on the understanding that everyone gets basic food and clothing. Having a place to store and distribute those rations from would help our administration immensely.
 
[X] [Loc] Valleyhome
[X] Shrine
[X] Shrine x2
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Great Hall Expansion
[X] Storeroom

Temple + Library have great synergy and would give a place for the clerks to work while reinforcing Mythmulnin as the King's Advisor
Great hall expansion would create an open area for people to let out their grievances, and would be a sort of mingling area.
The storeroom would be great for administering and storing food for distribution, which should lessen the strain.
 
@Academia Nut - you were asked a couple times about how we could change the mercenaries, but only gave a response in the post where you closed the vote. Would it be possible, particularly as it seems the actual turn hasn't been written yet, for you to add a vote to the main update of whether we want to keep paying -1 wealth to the Red Banner, or pay 0 and add their martial to ours?
 
[X] [Loc] Valleyhome
[X] Great Hall Expansion
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Storehouse
[X] Storehouse x2
Adhoc vote count started by highs2lows on Jul 9, 2017 at 3:26 PM, finished with 71564 posts and 32 votes.
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OK, I'm locking in for now:

[X] [Loc] Valleyhome

[X] Shrine
[X] Shrine x2
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Storehouse

Garden and Armoury are desirables for me, but just... not at all necessary right now.
 
Romv said:
I don't get the desire for storerooms. Maybe if we were smaller, or if we were making it a fort, but we'll have enough trouble making a good administrative building.
Though maybe if it were a vault, helping to keep control of the Kingdom's money supply ... I know nothing about economics.

We're better off adding more libraries, or even a great hall extension.
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The update explicitly said it would help administration and act as a central storehouse for the city. So naturally people want it.

I don't have it in my vote, but that's because I'm trying to rush the palace as fast as possible. I wouldn't be mad if a storehouse sneaked in.
 
[X] [Loc] Sacred Forest
[X] Great Hall Expansion
[X] Shrine
[X] Shrine x2
[X] Library
[X] Library 2x
[X] Gardens
[X] Storehouse
[X] Storehouse x2

Okay reasons
Sacred Forest in order to end or at least decrease the north south divide
The double Shrine in order to increase the Kings political power in spiritual matters, via temple bonus, in order to offset the rise of political power that will come from the additional temple in the north
Library for the records, which should make our administration more effective
The same for the store houses & the Great hall expansion
The Gardens to keep our ties to nature and to synergize with the Great hall

Both the Arsenal & the Fortification are shinies, given that all our potential locations have 0 chance of an attack or rather if they are ever attacked we will be fucked either way so they are kinda useless for the moment, I guess we can build them if we ever unlock the extension for the palace


Also I would apperiacte if somebody took a look at this
Academia Nut said:
Greenshore – [Main] Trade Mission – Trelli, [Main] Aqueduct (4/8)
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I appears that Greenshore after being denied long enough to become a colony, it now tries to strong arm us for more influence by becoming a free city
 
Romv said:
I don't get the desire for storerooms. Maybe if we were smaller, or if we were making it a fort, but we'll have enough trouble making a good administrative building.
Though maybe if it were a vault, helping to keep control of the Kingdom's money supply ... I know nothing about economics.

We're better off adding more libraries, or even a great hall extension.
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Storehouses explicitly help admin. That's why they're popular.
 
[X] [Loc] Redshore
[X] Great Hall Expansion
[X] Great Hall Expansion x2
[X] Shrine
[X] Shrine x2
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Storehouse
[X] Storehouse x2
 
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[X] [Loc] Redshore

I haven't really decided on annexes yet but I'd really prefer putting our center of administration in a place that is easier for delegates to reach. We're dealing with administrative stress as it is and I'd rather do whatever we can to keep everything together so we can consolidate and keep building up.
 
The Sandman said:
A large part of our economy is built on the understanding that everyone gets basic food and clothing. Having a place to store and distribute those rations from would help our administration immensely.
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Point of note, you do already have central storehouses of some sort in all settlements larger than a hundred and have for the past few thousand years.

Neptune said:
you were asked a couple times about how we could change the mercenaries, but only gave a response in the post where you closed the vote. Would it be possible, particularly as it seems the actual turn hasn't been written yet, for you to add a vote to the main update of whether we want to keep paying -1 wealth to the Red Banner, or pay 0 and add their martial to ours?
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Given that might trigger a civil war at your current level of martial, no, because I would tell you that that would happen and thus no one would vote for it and it would be a waste of space.
 
keenscythe said:
[X] [Loc] Redshore
[X] Great Hall Expansion
[X] Great Hall Expansion x2
[X] Shrine
[X] Shrine x2
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Storehouse
[X] Storehouse x2
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Of all the 'let's spend forever on the palace' plans, this is my favorite. It actually focuses on the relevant issues.
 
[X] [Loc] Valleyhome

[X] Great Hall Expansion
[X] Shrine
[X] Library
[X] Library x2
[X] Gardens

[Main] Actions required: 9-11. Shrine is basically required. 2x Library seems like it will be giving us the full Mysticism Refund, which will be very useful for rushing the Census. Gardens is super-important for cultural purposes, and a Great Hall Expansion is also very, very useful for all the admin woes we've been having.

We should go for just what is useful in the short to medium term.
Shrine, Gardens - both very important religiously/culturally
Great Hall Expansion - A single boost to make it large enough that it can be useful for more than just meeting the king, it can be used to hold public events and the like
Library x2 - Get the Mysticism refund for the Census. This is actually cost-positive in the medium term. Also very useful for admin purposes.

Umi-san said:
My vote solidifed:
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[Main] Actions required: 11-13. Are you sure we can afford that? The Storehouses are useful if things start breaking down further or if Valleyhome is under siege, but I don't think it's that valuable otherwise.
 
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