pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
This was if we debated in [RA] and cracked down in [Low]
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
No, that wouldn't help. As AN has said, "crackdown" would be in the Lowlands, while the debate would be at home. That's independent of one another. I'm entertaining the thought of voting for the "stamp down" choice.
Indeed. Which seems to indicate the debate is held back at home. That it is about our own society.
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
Are there any other drawbacks of a Free City, provided we trust our priests with more independence? Because yeah, we have two slots and want to free up more soon, so that seems like a decent trade.
I somehow missed that... It now makes a lot more sense.
It's not that the poor, half starving minors are able to affect our values. It's a move by the martial classes against the Ymaryn priests and indirectly the bureaucratic elite. Which means using the warriors to kill the lowlander priests just got even less appealing.
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
Hmm. I won't join you there. "Irrationally-held truths may be more dangerous than reasoned errors" and all that. I'd rather lose the debate and shift religious values than stifle it.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Except that losing the debate could well see Love of Wisdom be lost along with it.
Refusing the debate could also see us lose LoW. Honestly I consider that more likely.
- Location
- Volksstaat Hessen, Deutsches Reich
The thing is, the draw of the Lowland Religion is exactly the very dogmatism you want to prevent here, so our values may shift towards that.
Of course, the whole thing is a bit of a catch-22.
Lose the debate, we may shift to dogmatism.
Stamp down the debate... we've entered dogmatism by ourselves.
Hrm. But at least in the latter case, we're preserving our other cultural values.
I admit, I hadn't considered it in that way. Yes, that makes sense. Hrm. It really would help to keep the RB away from the Lowland for the time being...
If we are planning for lots of war we should ease the path for taking up the new beliefs.
That style seems to have great short term benefits but difficult to hold onto for the long term.
If we want to keep our current tech up our current religion would probably be the best with our seeking out the magic the gods play with.
Does this seem to be correct?
That style seems to have great short term benefits but difficult to hold onto for the long term.
If we want to keep our current tech up our current religion would probably be the best with our seeking out the magic the gods play with.
Does this seem to be correct?
[X] [RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)
[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [High] Demand territory (+3 Prestige, +3 Wealth, +2 Econ, +4 Econ expansion, -1 Centralization, requires further military commitment, likely requires more actions)
[X] [RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Hatvalley
[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X] [City] No
[X] [Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [High] Demand territory (+3 Prestige, +3 Wealth, +2 Econ, +4 Econ expansion, -1 Centralization, requires further military commitment, likely requires more actions)
[X] [RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Hatvalley
[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X] [City] No
[X] [Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)
[X] [Low] Crack down on their priests (-1 Stability, potential war with vassal, potential +1 Religious authority)
[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [Low] Send over assistance (Transfer 1 Econ + 1 Martial)
[X] [High] Demand territory (+3 Prestige, +3 Wealth, +2 Econ, +4 Econ expansion, -1 Centralization, requires further military commitment, likely requires more actions)
[X] [RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Hatvalley
[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X] [City] No
[X] [Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Low] Crack down on their priests (-1 Stability, potential war with vassal, potential +1 Religious authority)
[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [Low] Send over assistance (Transfer 1 Econ + 1 Martial)
[X] [High] Demand territory (+3 Prestige, +3 Wealth, +2 Econ, +4 Econ expansion, -1 Centralization, requires further military commitment, likely requires more actions)
[X] [RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Hatvalley
[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X] [City] No
[X] [Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)
Since the very beginning of the quest? About 3000 years I would say.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Well, it's been 54 turns since we started taking turns. So that's a minimum of 1080 years. But we were told that our turns early on were often several generations apart, so that's definitely lowball.
If I'm not mistaken, we've lost one of our values in this quest all of ONCE. And it was from us doing something like a double main in opposition to said value.
Is taking less refugees less advantages to CA? Yes. Is it going to lose use the value? No.
Because every extra level of refugees effectively costs us a secondary action. Getting back a stability costs a main, but the econ gains only come to a bit over a secondary.
[X] [RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)
[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [High] Demand territory (+3 Prestige, +3 Wealth, +2 Econ, +4 Econ expansion, -1 Centralization, requires further military commitment, likely requires more actions)
[X] [RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Hatvalley
[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X] [City] No
[X] [Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [High] Demand territory (+3 Prestige, +3 Wealth, +2 Econ, +4 Econ expansion, -1 Centralization, requires further military commitment, likely requires more actions)
[X] [RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Hatvalley
[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X] [City] No
[X] [Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)
Love of Wisdom is about challenging beliefs and making people justify it, no? And the biggest risk we took was to risk the Warding megaproject.
tally
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
The scariest thing we could do with Love of Wisdom is deny it by our actions. If we stomp out unpleasant inputs, we don't love wisdom. We love confirmation bias.
And that's not a trait any of us want to have.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
So, since it seems clear we're going in on the debates, what do you guys think the possible results and our chances are?
So far I've got:
Hard loss: -2 RA, Xoh priests dominate. The Xoh religion gains a foothold in our very capital. Likelihood: highly unlikely, as our shamans can prove they know their shit.
Soft Loss: -1 RA, Xoh priests tough out getting proven wrong. "I don't care what you say, I'mma sacrifice doods no matter what." Likelihood: moderate (these guys are stubborn)
Tie: Null RA, Xoh priests insist on the gaps. Likelihood: mod-high (blind faith is a hell of a drug)
Soft Win: +1 RA, Xoh priests convinced that everything can be figured out. Likelihood: high (Tangible benefits to Crowism, see below)
Hard Win: +2 RA, Xoh priests astounded by what our gods have helped us learn and accomplish. Likelihood: moderate (library of knowledge, great temple, mysticism overflow, number of megaprojects built)
Anyone else got any suggestions?
So far I've got:
Hard loss: -2 RA, Xoh priests dominate. The Xoh religion gains a foothold in our very capital. Likelihood: highly unlikely, as our shamans can prove they know their shit.
Soft Loss: -1 RA, Xoh priests tough out getting proven wrong. "I don't care what you say, I'mma sacrifice doods no matter what." Likelihood: moderate (these guys are stubborn)
Tie: Null RA, Xoh priests insist on the gaps. Likelihood: mod-high (blind faith is a hell of a drug)
Soft Win: +1 RA, Xoh priests convinced that everything can be figured out. Likelihood: high (Tangible benefits to Crowism, see below)
Hard Win: +2 RA, Xoh priests astounded by what our gods have helped us learn and accomplish. Likelihood: moderate (library of knowledge, great temple, mysticism overflow, number of megaprojects built)
Anyone else got any suggestions?
Last edited:
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
I don't think this is actually on the table; it goes against way too many of our values. We might go hard on sacrifice though.
Godwinson
"Well, I've got nothing."
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
Which value and action was this? I can't recall.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
noted!