10ebbor10
DON'T PANIC
- Location
- Present
I think that you were very misleading there.
You took "minimal danger" and turned it into something that gave an impression of the value being under severe threat.
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Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
I think that you were very misleading there.
You took "minimal danger" and turned it into something that gave an impression of the value being under severe threat.
Tax crisis, not climate crisis. -2 stats/turn is comparable to the climate damage we've seen, so I consider it roughly equivalent. (Climate was costing us ~2-3 econ/turn, but also ~4-6 LTE/turn which really hurt us)
Good point on GG though, I forgot about that.
Our LTE is 17 right now, that's not that bad. It's enough to let us do basically everything. I agree with not freeing the city though. (edit: and dropping to 13 would start limiting our actions again)
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Tax crisis.
Helping our vassal. Any of the tech give options and especially the Transfer Econ and Martial. Also sending the RB their way.
You raise a good criticism about the free city(Taxes ho!), but our Cent dropped for some reason. I think we are starting to see a case of Cent tolerance dropping because we are juggling to many flaming adzes through the King's office.
It also may give them advantage in the debates.
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- Location
- Australia
i think its a timing thing as it acts as a low stability drop all the time but if we want to keep it we need to take a big hit every now and then and drop everything to fix stability.
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
Wouldn't there be better synergy by giving the Lowlanders our farming tech and restricting them to defensive wars, instead of targeting slavery?
They're only attacking because they want good land. If we give them the means to make their land good, they might grumble, but they probably won't risk a fight with us over it.
And giving them better economic tech will strike a blow at the heart of slavery: making it more expensive than the alternatives. After all, water mills don't need to be fed.
They're only attacking because they want good land. If we give them the means to make their land good, they might grumble, but they probably won't risk a fight with us over it.
And giving them better economic tech will strike a blow at the heart of slavery: making it more expensive than the alternatives. After all, water mills don't need to be fed.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
ah fuck, thats right
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Unless we leave it on offense, which we will need to if we're still at war with any of three different groups and want to stay on schedule for a megaproject rush to fix our taxes.
It will take several generations for black soil to take effect properly. We should wait for a time so they can see it clearly works, since at the moment they think it's a matter of survival.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
My reading of the update has me convinced they have a full Martial Glory traitline of some description and a Revenge-boner trait to make the Xoh blush if they were still alive. I don't want to poke something that volatile this soon in our relationship.
Xantalos
Turtle-Speed Writing
Oh god can you imagine the state of the thread after that though?
A small risk to a very important value requires at least some commitment of actions IMO.
- Location
- Hell
...
Did we not just expand our forest?
Other than that
[X] veekie
I have been convinced on the mercenary and city vote. Everything else is the same as I had voted before.
Because stability now is better than stability later, if we find something.
- Location
- Australia
[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Restrict right to wage war to defensive only (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [Low] Send over assistance (Transfer 1 Econ + 1 Martial)
The minor lowlanders are our vassals. We are obligated to help them, but they in turn are obligated to listen to us. They must follow our laws and they must not seek fights with their neighbours. Going out and causing war will only ever cause more harm in the long run for both them and us.
Another thing which needs to be considered is something AN said. The lowland minors are averse to improving their own land because good land is very close by and they can get it by fighting people they want to fight anyway. Even if we give them mills and black soil, they're still going to spend their actions going to war with other people over developing their land because it's easier for them to do that. The only way they'll start using those techs we give them is if the only way for them to get better land is to get to work and improve it, as opposed to now where they can just take it from someone else.
Sending over our own people will help with getting them to work their own land rather than try to take someone else's, providing both a cultural component and a technical one. At Econ 5 we'll be able to afford it and it's very good synergy.
[X] [Low] Restrict right to wage war to defensive only (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [Low] Send over assistance (Transfer 1 Econ + 1 Martial)
The minor lowlanders are our vassals. We are obligated to help them, but they in turn are obligated to listen to us. They must follow our laws and they must not seek fights with their neighbours. Going out and causing war will only ever cause more harm in the long run for both them and us.
Another thing which needs to be considered is something AN said. The lowland minors are averse to improving their own land because good land is very close by and they can get it by fighting people they want to fight anyway. Even if we give them mills and black soil, they're still going to spend their actions going to war with other people over developing their land because it's easier for them to do that. The only way they'll start using those techs we give them is if the only way for them to get better land is to get to work and improve it, as opposed to now where they can just take it from someone else.
Sending over our own people will help with getting them to work their own land rather than try to take someone else's, providing both a cultural component and a technical one. At Econ 5 we'll be able to afford it and it's very good synergy.
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ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
[X] [RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [Low] Send over assistance (Transfer 1 Econ + 1 Martial)
[X] [High] Extra tribute (+2 Prestige, +2 Wealth, probably completes this turn)
[X] [RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Valleyhome
[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X] [City] Yes (Transfers 2 Econ + 2 Econ expansion, nulls cost of maintenance for Sacred Forest)
[X] [Refugee] Bring in a bit more than usual (-1 Stab, potential further loss, +4-5 Econ)
Well, I'll stick with the bandwagon concession from the Lowlanders. Don't want to risk asking both, since it seems possible that they'll actually become useful.
No one else seems to have considered that a Free City might move us closer to another legacy? And I am OK with our priests being more independent.
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [Low] Send over assistance (Transfer 1 Econ + 1 Martial)
[X] [High] Extra tribute (+2 Prestige, +2 Wealth, probably completes this turn)
[X] [RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Valleyhome
[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X] [City] Yes (Transfers 2 Econ + 2 Econ expansion, nulls cost of maintenance for Sacred Forest)
[X] [Refugee] Bring in a bit more than usual (-1 Stab, potential further loss, +4-5 Econ)
Well, I'll stick with the bandwagon concession from the Lowlanders. Don't want to risk asking both, since it seems possible that they'll actually become useful.
No one else seems to have considered that a Free City might move us closer to another legacy? And I am OK with our priests being more independent.
- Location
- Panama City
[X] [RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)
[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [High] Demand territory (+3 Prestige, +3 Wealth, +2 Econ, +4 Econ expansion, -1 Centralization, requires further military commitment, likely requires more actions)
[X] [RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Hatvalley
[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X] [City] No
[X] [Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [High] Demand territory (+3 Prestige, +3 Wealth, +2 Econ, +4 Econ expansion, -1 Centralization, requires further military commitment, likely requires more actions)
[X] [RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Hatvalley
[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X] [City] No
[X] [Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)
@Academia Nut, why do the options where we enforce our will on the lowlands cause us to lose stability? Also, if we make Sacred Forest a Free City how difficult would it be to revoke the Free City status at a later date?
Free city gives +1 LTE per turn.
- Location
- nz
[X] [RA] Increase debates to determine the truth (-2 to +2 Religious Authority based on success of debates, potential shift in Spiritual Values)
[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [High] Demand territory (+3 Prestige, +3 Wealth, +2 Econ, +4 Econ expansion, -1 Centralization, requires further military commitment, likely requires more actions)
[X] [RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Hatvalley
[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X] [City] No
[X] [Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Low] Force them to follow the spirit of the law (Potential stability loss, potential war with vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce black soil to improve their conditions (Teaches black soil to vassal)
[X] [Low] Introduce mill technology to improve their conditions (Teaches water mill to vassal)
[X] [High] Demand territory (+3 Prestige, +3 Wealth, +2 Econ, +4 Econ expansion, -1 Centralization, requires further military commitment, likely requires more actions)
[X] [RB] Deploy against Highlanders from Hatvalley
[X] [React] Main Improve Annual Festival
[X] [City] No
[X] [Refugee] Just those who come of their own initiative (Potential stab loss, +2 Econ)
- Location
- Hell
It is in the update.
They are used to being vassals and paying tribute.
- Location
- Australia
[X] [High] Humiliate (+1 Prestige, completes immediately)
We have so much crap to do. We have to integrate the Stallion Tribes. We have to deal with lowlander bullcrap. We have to build the Grand Palace. We have to do The Census. We have to do all the actions needed to pay for all these actions. Simply put, we do not have time for war. Picking the option noted for its requirement for more actions is incredibly unwise.
We have so much crap to do. We have to integrate the Stallion Tribes. We have to deal with lowlander bullcrap. We have to build the Grand Palace. We have to do The Census. We have to do all the actions needed to pay for all these actions. Simply put, we do not have time for war. Picking the option noted for its requirement for more actions is incredibly unwise.
This cancels your previous vote. Was that what you intended?
ThrawnCA
Carbon-based biped
- Location
- Australia
The HK know how dangerous the Red Banner are from having hired them before, so would sending the Red Banner at them have a psychological impact, letting them know we're taking them seriously? Or has it just been too many generations?