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Paths of Civilization

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As far as I'm concerned for the Alchemy options, Gunpower is possible, we don't need a large source of saltpeter in order to make enough to set fire to a primitive building on fire, additionally the original recipes were just fast burning mixtures rather than explosive. So expect fire arrows out of this and then a slow climb up to grenades.

I suppose we also have everything we would need in order to recreate Hero's aeolipile, the fact we were able to create a steam explosion rather than a steam leak, if that is true however seems to suggest we're working on a far larger scale than he did which makes it potentially more useful and further from what I'd consider historically likely.

If its a dust explosion then what on earth was she researching, what happens if I shake up all this flour and then light a candle? I don't think this is likely because it doesn't translate to the study of alchemy and narratively its hard to predict what we'd get.

Ammonium Nitrates? Seems too techy techy however if anyone can propose a way to make it with the available resources then I'll reconsider.

Has anyone brought up Greek Fire yet? That could be just the thing to let us compete for dominance of this sea with the Trelli.

BungieONI said:
My issue with this being gunpowder is we don't have a source of saltpeter except through sheer luck in our cow herds.


Not with Science itself. That flies in the face of LoW so no.

However explosives = bad could happen but I don't think it will since we would have a Hero working on it directly.
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Deathbybunnies said:
Bonus Art and Mysticism for increased costs is probably worth it. Due to our practice of yeomanry, the social stratification is probably the same - our culture is already tied up with our martial habits.

I suspect that the 4 options might affect our daughter's stats if when she ascends to the throne, and she probably doesn't need any more Martial than she already has.

[X] Attempt to finish her mother's work

Next turn, if we don't have any fires to put out I'd like to get to Stability 3. We now know that periods of low Stability lead to corruption building up. I suspect it's part of the reason for this whole "enemies" thing.
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In particular it's not sitting at 0 which does it, it's the drop of stability especially when coupled with Legitimacy which causes corruption.

We will also have to be very lucky to get to 3 Stability in one turn.
 
By the way, one piece of good news with the north:
Academia Nut said:
Lucky break, considering that these tribes were a confederation of nomads founded by a survivor of the tribes scattered to the east by the northerners, who had sought revenge and achieved it, but had also forgotten who exactly the 'Salt People' were
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Sounds like the eastern nomads broke the northern horde for us. So now we can concentrate on the south.

Though it's too bad we didn't send a salt gift. That would have instantly restored our alliance, since they only remember us due to our salt gifts.
 
Well, if we want to get really speculative, something less outside the time period, less overpowered, and more fitting the tailings origins of the experiments and lightning comparison might be the Parthian battery. It'd take a lot in series, though. Some of the early electrostatic generator experiments would actually seem more likely.


-or she screwed up a distillation experiment, and angered the spirits :tongue:



pbluekan said:
Couldn't it be ammonium nitrate? I doubt she stumbled on the haber process, but it's possible.
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I really doubt that she did for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that giving the Ymaryn synthetic fertilizers would probably lead to them conquering the world whether the players wanted them to or not. It's possible that she put it together from from natural sources, but there's probably a reason that it came so much later than gunpower.
 
I honestly hope this isn't gunpowder, because if it is then we would just have skipped a significant number if very interesting developements.
 
Citino said:
By the way, one piece of good news with the north:
Sounds like the eastern nomads broke the northern horde for us. So now we can concentrate on the south.

Though it's too bad we didn't send a salt gift. That would have instantly restored our alliance, since they only remember us due to our salt gifts.
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...Phooey.
 
I really like the new trait it should make it so that we get new innovations more quickly especially when paired with love of wisdom because the artisans will be competing with each other to make the best products they can.
Kiba said:
I am sorry, but we really need to relieve our martial.
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Martial is really only dangerous at negative stab if we go stab 3 we should have no worries about martial acting up
 
veekie said:
And note that bombs will come long before cannon.
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Uhuh. That would be just fine for me.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on Jun 16, 2017 at 2:43 AM, finished with 55591 posts and 50 votes.
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DragonParadox said:
:Citation Needed:
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Could you start phrasing that as 'citation requested' instead of required/needed, please? I think you're the only one who jumps on points without a supporting quote to supply you information confirming the point. What you do is helpful, but you consistently use needed. I feel the word needed is wrong in this context.

Obviously you want information, but you don't need to be told the information to assure the validity of the point. Maybe the memory of what the point is refferencing has already occured to you. Perhaps you could look the point up yourself, instead of making a demand to a real person who might be too prideful to reply if they're point made a mountain out of hot air.

The thread is long. It is possible I, or someone else challenged you about this. If that is true I'm sorry. The search engine is a pain to sife through because quotes get ignored, paragraph jumps shortened, and you can't expand the amount of words the posts the searcher looks through contain. And I think I had the urge to rant at you the second time I saw 'citation needed', back when the thread was younger than a thousand pages, but can't remember what happened to the urge.
 
Marlin said:
Could you start phrasing that as 'citation requested' instead of required/needed, please? I think you're the only one who jumps on points without a supporting quote to supply you information confirming the point. What you do is helpful, but you consistently use needed. I feel the word needed is wrong in this context.

Obviously you want information, but you don't need to be told the information to assure the validity of the point. Maybe the memory of what the point is refferencing has already occured to you. Perhaps you could look the point up yourself, instead of making a demand to a real person who might be too prideful to reply if they're point made a mountain out of hot air.

The thread is long. It is possible I, or someone else challenged you about this. If that is true I'm sorry. The search engine is a pain to sife through because quotes get ignored, paragraph jumps shortened, and you can't expand the amount of words the posts the searcher looks through contain. And I think I had the urge to rant at you the second time I saw 'citation needed', back when the thread was younger than a thousand pages, but can't remember what happened to the urge.
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That's actually an emote in the site special stuff. Second factoid of the day.
 
Guile said:
It includes social stratification because Honor of Elites had social stratification, not because it's somehow worse.
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Hopefully it and lord's loyalty are close to merging which means that elites have obligations to those below them and others have obligations to elites. Downside is it pretty much sets spcial strata into stone.
 
DocMatoi said:
Fertilizer bombs, eh? I like the way you think. And it fits with us as the Farm Civ
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I'll refer you to the Texas City disaster of 1947

I can never seem to find any info on how big that explosion was in tons of TNT, but 2100 metric tons detonated in the first explosion. Ammonium nitrate releases about 42% of the energy, gram for gram, that TNT releases. So the initial detonation of the Texas City disaster was equivalent to about .882 kilotons of TNT.

I'm also seriously off topic.
 
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veekie said:
One historical chinese weapon was a log stuffed with gunpowder, mounted on wheels and rolled towards the enemy after lighting it and running away.

It wasn't very effective as a weapon, but it's pretty terrifying when people apparently threw thunder at you.
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Reminds me of that rocket barrage they developed. Scary as fuck, but really hard to aim.
 
Umi-san said:
I'll be honest and say that I do not know if I believe this. It hasn't been an issue so this aspect of policy mechanics hasn't really been revealed.
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Policies do things that enable them to do what they are designed to do yet won't actively work against the will of the thread. Gathering resources to accomplish their tasks are a given. We've seen this a lot with mega structure support. If they have the resources they spend them... if the don't they gain them.
BungieONI said:
The only question in my mind is one of timing, but either way the Trelli are a blip on my Expansiondar with the ridiculous spending we do.
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Its more a matter of them doing something that spends actions to counter them. CoT is actively needy about other people's numbers going up above yours. They are in the great and mighty land of way the hell of there, but now that The People are aware of them they are on he competition radar.
DocMatoi said:
What kind of mad scientist takes notes?
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The one who wants to save their notes for later? Ranting on 'paper' is good for remembering what you were on about last week, Also, good for remembering what does and doesn't work... or what did something real entertaining. Mad Scientist take lots of notes... they just contain lots of tangents and rambling.
BungieONI said:
It sounds like gunpowder but it can't be. We don't have a source of potassium nitrate!
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Lightning strikes are localized blast craters and fire. Lots and lots of things explode when done wrong for instance:
random_npc said:
I think we can agree whatever the fuck she was messing with that killed her it's something an early iron age civ should not have from an anthropologist perspective. Like those super old batteries archeologists think where used in rituals.
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Technically, the Baghdad batteries are currently (always in flux things are) considered fancy scroll containers with a ceramic shell... however if she made sulfuric and through in a base of some kind into an acid that strong and made it a closed system that could explain things 'nicely'.

Seriously, there are an insane amount of ways to get killed/maimed if you start mixing chemicals at random and haven't enough protective gear. Also, chain reactions are a thing. Blowing up your own supplies is a hazard.
 
If we get gunpowder this early, it will probably takes a couple of centuries to develop. Once we're there, the steppes is basically ours to conquer.
 
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