- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Have fun!
That explains why I didn't find a "Rules" section on the frontpage, or the link to the 'These are the rules of civilization. Abandon all hope ye who click on this link' thread.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Philippines
Why do you people want to do a mega project in such a chaotic time?
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[Value] Do not spread
[Main] Proclaim Glory
[Secondary] Restore Order
[Secondary] New Settlement - south-eastern Redhills
For this we have these stats to start.
Diplomacy 9 [+4]
Economy 1 [-1+4]
Econ Expansion 9 [+1-4]
Martial 9 (+1) {9}
Stability -1 (anxious)
Legitimacy 3 (max)
Centralization 3
Hierarchy 6
Religious Authority 2
Art 4
Mysticism 6 [+1]
Prestige 20
Main PG is -3 Art, -1 Econ, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige
Secondary RO is 0-2 Stability and -1 Legitimacy.
Secondary New Settlement is +1 Econ and maybe -1 Cent.
Main PG is +1 Expansion via True City. New Settlement is +X Expansion, I will assume 4, based on previous settling in the area.
I assume we roll really well too.
So at the end before province actions we would have:
Diplomacy 9 [+4] -> 13 [+4]
Economy 1 [-1+4] -> 4(+1) [-1+4]
Econ Expansion 9 [+1-4] -> 10 [+1-4]
Martial 9 (+1) {9} -> 10 {11}
Stability -1 (anxious) -> 1 (confident? Can't remember what it says at 1)
Legitimacy 3 (max) -> 3 (max)
Centralization 3 -> 2?
Hierarchy 6
Religious Authority 2
Art 4 -> 1
Mysticism 6 [+1] -> 7 [+1]
Prestige 20 -> 21
So swapping Enforce for a RO means we guarantee 1 Stability by trading in a Legitimacy by wasting it and have a certain 3 or more Cent.
[Main] Proclaim Glory
[Secondary] Restore Order
[Secondary] New Settlement - south-eastern Redhills
For this we have these stats to start.
Diplomacy 9 [+4]
Economy 1 [-1+4]
Econ Expansion 9 [+1-4]
Martial 9 (+1) {9}
Stability -1 (anxious)
Legitimacy 3 (max)
Centralization 3
Hierarchy 6
Religious Authority 2
Art 4
Mysticism 6 [+1]
Prestige 20
Main PG is -3 Art, -1 Econ, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige
Secondary RO is 0-2 Stability and -1 Legitimacy.
Secondary New Settlement is +1 Econ and maybe -1 Cent.
Main PG is +1 Expansion via True City. New Settlement is +X Expansion, I will assume 4, based on previous settling in the area.
I assume we roll really well too.
So at the end before province actions we would have:
Diplomacy 9 [+4] -> 13 [+4]
Economy 1 [-1+4] -> 4(+1) [-1+4]
Econ Expansion 9 [+1-4] -> 10 [+1-4]
Martial 9 (+1) {9} -> 10 {11}
Stability -1 (anxious) -> 1 (confident? Can't remember what it says at 1)
Legitimacy 3 (max) -> 3 (max)
Centralization 3 -> 2?
Hierarchy 6
Religious Authority 2
Art 4 -> 1
Mysticism 6 [+1] -> 7 [+1]
Prestige 20 -> 21
So swapping Enforce for a RO means we guarantee 1 Stability by trading in a Legitimacy by wasting it and have a certain 3 or more Cent.
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Even if that's true and settlement wins, you're still effectively losing an action due to not having The Law proc. MP-S will give 4 expand economy, and a free policy change. Changing policy to balanced will cost a secondary action but effectively regain it due to The Law doubling the expand economy to a main, and we'd get to change the policy right now.
As I've previously mentioned, there will be benefits to taking balanced due to the flexibility of actions it gives and because unlike us where our actions are pre-set they can adapt to what's happening. If we're not attacked, they can take new settlement themselves, take a stability action, study or explore. If we are, they can take war actions to minimize damage.
- Location
- Austria
*points at the sig*
I am (technically) working on it, alright? Once I deal with some IRL things, I'll probably start going through the thread collecting the WoGs which are not limited to only one current vote (because with those doc would be too bloated to be useful).
Mm. What do you exactly mean by 'rules'?
I am not a proponent of it, but there is a reason for one. Census, given that it was prompted by our recruitment, will probably give us more efficient levee, which is kind of quite relevant in these times. Other MPs not so much, but census, combined with our proto-phalanx and volley fire, would give us quite a hell of core infantry army, I assume. And, with its Mysticism cost alleviated by Library, we can knock it out quite fast.
EDIT: Also, @BungieONI has already asked for (and received) access. If anyone wants write-access to the doc, feel free to ask.
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- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
ftfy
And I don't know why.
TheDanishLord
Viking Warlord
- Location
- Denmark
[X] [Main] Enforce Justice
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy Restoration
[X] [Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy Restoration
- Location
- Austria
Can't do; option of secondary Festival is unavailable. And Main one costs 2 Econ, which would put us into negatives.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
So based on the above we can stand to have all of the provinces doing Expand Econ for +8 Econ and -8 Expansion. That would put us at 13 Econ and 2 Expansion, so Martial would be 10 {14}.
It just puts us in a cramp again, though we do have the econ to spend on Econ costing actions like mad in order to replenish our Expansion.
E: Objective mode go.
E2: Also Art will overflow by 3 the turn after and by 4 the turn after that, so PG is paid for quickly.
It just puts us in a cramp again, though we do have the econ to spend on Econ costing actions like mad in order to replenish our Expansion.
E: Objective mode go.
E2: Also Art will overflow by 3 the turn after and by 4 the turn after that, so PG is paid for quickly.
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Can you explain how sticking with megaproject support loses an action? The way I see it, the (equivalent of a) secondary action we get from the Law costs us the secondary action we use to change the policy now, although changing the policy now does have the advantage of getting more diverse province actions.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The mechanics behind the attribute values and interaction of actions with said attributes. Currently, it's like listening to a discussion of MtG deck creation without knowing the mechanics.
- Location
- Source of confusion itself.
My guess is on masochism.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Switching now means we have seoncdary to switch and gain a secondary from Law. If we do not switch Law does not trigger and we have to spend an action equivalent to switch in the mid turn, net negative in actions.
Least that's how I think it works. I'm tired so not up for action math right now.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
We'll be back to overflowing on Martial, Econ and Diplo which is very good for the coming days of war against the Son Nomads and the Hathatyn, after all, we were already kicking arse with subpar stats
- Location
- Somewhere
Some of the rules are sprinkled in non threadmarked posts by the quest master when answering questions. For a quick dive into the game mechanics keep two things in mind (civ stats are found on page 1 of the thread). The civ stats, consistantly updated with each story post with no record of prior stats kept by the qm for archival purposes. And each main turn with the long list of actions in a spoiler. If you look inside the spoiler each action gives the mechanic info we use.
Someone else can explain what the different parts of the stat sheet mean. Like how stability keeps civil war away.
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BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Feel free to ask questions. Answering them is more productive than what we normally get up to.
Do you know the narrative definitions of all our stats?
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- Location
- Somewhere
Could you give a refresher? I thought that was mostly opinion based with a loose bare bones narrative structure built based upon reality.
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- Location
- Austria
Diplomacy = luxuries and diplomatic ties with outer nations.
Economy = available free-ish manpower + *potential* manpower you can throw at doing things (which, really, means food surplus, more or less).
Martial - warriors and how good they are.
NOTE: It can be skewed by having a few elite warriors - they would 'inflate' the value, but one bad fight would massacre your martial because of low numbers. There is (of course) unmarked WoG on that somewhere 1000 pages ago, about when Spirit Talkers died.
Centralization - measure of king's ability to assume direct control. Is good for preventing corruption (unless king is into it), but micromanaging is inefficient and hard to sustain. And bad king with high Centralization is a disaster.
Hierarchy - roughly speaking, you can imagine it as amount of levels of separation between a peasant and the king. Does not mean king gets all uppity, but can mean that they are *different*. High Hierarchy is a sign of big administrative apparatus, in our case local chiefs and advisors and stuff, which are kind of 'between' king and commoner.
Although in our society a masterful artisan can become the king, so....not so sure.
This one is pretty complicated to me too, honestly.
Stability - how good people are feeling about the life in general. -4 is Bad End for typical civ, for us it is, thanks to Symphony, -3 with a bad Admin roll in it, I think.
Legitimacy - trust of people in the king's office.
Religious Authority - no fucking clue, it's a new one. Apparently, measure of how much sway priests hold in the society?
Art - free artist- and specialist- (like masons or blacksmiths) power you can throw at things.
Mysticism - amount of shaman- and priest-power to throw at things. Low means everyone of those is too busy doing things to look into something new.
Prestige - bragging rights, basically?
Sooomething roughly along those lines.
@Academia Nut , how much of it is right or wrong? Could you make any corrections, please?
Also, could you chime in on, hm, meaning of Hierarchy yet again?
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It's not really a net negative in actions, but a net neutral. To switch now costs us a secondary action, however it means the Law can activate and can use it's bonus. Not switching means we don't have to pay a secondary action to switch as that'll happen mid turn, however we lose the Law bonus as it can't activate on mega project support, due to the provinces not taking any mega project support actions.
Thus it's net neutral in overall action. However, I personally believe that switching now is superior due to the balanced policy allowing the provinces to take the actions they believe are needed, and often they take better ones effectiviely due to Academia Nut controlling them and knowing the situation better. An example being we are attacked under mega project support, then tough luck, however if we're attacked under balanced the provinces can respond with war missions of their own. This is particularly an issue given we have:
And note it's con.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Know? No. Fuzzy gut feeling? Yes:
Civilization Stats
General
- Diplomacy 9 [+4]
The capacity to influence others by using actions. Fuzzy if 'others' would also include rebelling provinces.
- Economy 1 [-1+4]
Reads like 'how much stuff you can do', but runs face first into 'and then what is the thing below?'
- Econ Expansion 9 [+1-4]
Something to do with how much economy expands per turn. In game, new shops, new fields, new mines (or expansions of them) per turn.
But no idea how that would fit with the static value in front of it.
- Martial 9 (+1) {9}
Militarization, both how many people have martial experience and also includes somehow the mindset (I would think 'using power to get things' is more okay with a high Martial value than a low one).
Stability
- Stability -1 (anxious)
Likelyhood of the current society collapsing.
- Legitimacy 3 (max)
How rightful the rulership is seen to be.
Organizational
- Centralization 3
How likely it is that orders from the central government are followed, regardless of stupidity // likelyhood of provinces deciding for themselves what to do
- Hierarchy 6
Yes?
- Religious Authority 2
... Influence of priests/shamans within the society?
Cultural
- Art 4
Competence at creating art. Spread?
- Mysticism 6 [+1]
Level of organization of religion, availability of teachers/shamans
- Prestige 20
How well we are known outside our civ // how impressive we are as a civ.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
We were just at war in Megaproject Support mode and we didn't get penalised by Lords Loyalty. There is no evidence to support your assertion that staying in Megaproject Support whilst attacked would hurt us in that way, considering that's what has been happening the last two turns and it hasn't triggered
- Location
- Austria
Not really, although king being Diplomatic is a different thing and would most likely influence it.
Free manpower and potential for more manpower, kind of. Basically food surplus+manpower, because food surplus = potnetial for growth.
Space for more manpower, basically potential space for more food growing.
First time I hear about mindset; overflow problems were mostly from too much dudes with axes with nothing to do and desire to do shit. Martial experience, skill and number of dudes, more or less.
More or less yes.
Add 'degree of microing' here - us acquiring procedure of everyone being able for to ask King for the audience (proto-court) gave +2 Centralization.
Kind of yes, how hierarchic society is.
Manpower to throw at the problem in art-related stuff too.
Not quite. Number of priests' and shamans' free time to throw at problems; Library explicitly says that it 'makes it so not everyone has to relearn everything' as justification for Mysticism refunds - it means they can look it up when necessary, which frees up their time.