Children are unproductive.
Depends how many small tasks you need done and how many small spaces you need entered.

Children are only unproductive now-a-days as that time is needed for education. Trades in being resource hogs early on for being more productive later. In the modern western world they only really stopped being useful once all the health and safety regulations started popping up during the industrial revolution. Before that here were some common (now) horror stories about children darting into operating machinery to clear things off the rugs. Limb loss was a firing expense after all.
Are you starting to understand? The only People who can be seen as overall good are The People, all the others are barbarians who's flaws far outweigh any redeeming features. They must be made to repent and reform, by any means necessary.
That is way, way, way too much effort. Remember the trait swapping works both ways. HK has to have absorb some of The People's traits by now from distance alone. Culture crush is much easier as it works passively.
 
It's not per child, but they do have ridiculously cheap Stability generation and their odds of gaining Stability instead of losing it from government action are much higher than with the Greater Good. They just, you know, have a trait that will make most other civilizations eventually want them dead.

They have a really bad habit of that. The negaverse thread when they realized what they had evolved Greater Good into required two mod interventions and Arthur Dent to show up and yell at everyone before it was unlocked.
So as a hypothetical if we conquer the xoh can we force them to devolve their trait back to GG.
 
Depends how many small tasks you need done and how many small spaces you need entered.

Children are only unproductive now-a-days as that time is needed for education. Trades in being resource hogs early on for being more productive later. In the modern western world they only really stopped being useful once all the health and safety regulations started popping up during the industrial revolution. Before that here were some common (now) horror stories about children darting into operating machinery to clear things off the rugs. Limb loss was a firing expense after all.
As far as I'm aware the only jobs that are likely to have small spaces are chimney cleaners and mining. We don't have machines, yet, after all.

Comparing the relatively high intake of food of children to the much higher labor capacity of full adults... children below early/mid teens are unnecessary until the trial has passed.

@Academia Nut We'll just have to Yahweh them into the side of Good. Using our swords.
 
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Aw, yeah. Harvest god! Everyone loves a good harvest god. And a reminder to take care of the land, which harkens back to our role as earthshapers which is my favorite aspect of the Ymarn.

Crow is tempting, but...I don't want to put him as the center of worship. He functions best as the outsider-god, the one who resides just outside of what we understand. Trickster gods thrive best in liminal spaces and I don't want to tie him down.
Unless you see us losing Divine Stewards sometime, I really don't think that is any danger of happening.

He would still be alien, as in there would still be very little known about him and his plan. Especially since this Temple would be right in the middle of the Sacred Forest.

Having Crow as the center focus would also open up the path of allowing our other Spirits to be multifaceted
So as a hypothetical if we conquer the xoh can we force them to devolve their trait back to GG.
Problem is their on the other side of the Lowlands, so yeah:V
 
At least one depiction on the ceiling, and at least one aspect with its own idol somewhere in the complex, and possibly something like a crow sitting on the shoulder of the central idol.
Hmm, the former was a role that wound up with Nut and Nyx, background deity of the night sky. Important and present often, but not often worshipped as such.

The latter is a bit of an Odin's Raven/Athena's owl thing, though anyone imitating it in reality would have to cope with poop stains on their clothes.
All the shamans have been trying to figure out what acts of Crow actually mean and what actually are acts of Crow. The problem with orange and blue morality is what actually counts as good for you in their world view can be near nonsensical in your own. So Crow can be both alien and trying to help... what classifies as 'help' is literally the job of some shamans.

Problem is that Urban centers have different views on what is most important. The nomad Hunter Marches rank military far more high on the list than other sections of The People. Adding in the proto-guilds is going to force a god of craftmanship to spawn. So while agriculture is the very much important as you move more people out of the farming jobs priorities of important shift to echo their own lives.

So while agriculture ends up in the 'duh' pile of important things its not really first on the important things list for everybody.
Well, considering our holy sites, they'd influence how we view each deity:
Sacred Forest
-Crow the Teacher, the cosmic mystery hiddden within the leaves. Remember Sacred Forest is where the Blackbirds are trained.
-Gwy and Gyo, the All-Father and All-Mother as the parents of everything that lives.
-Fythhagyna, the Harvest god, bringer of the land's bounty. Likely to warp to become an overall nature deity.
-Mathulmyn, likely to follow the facet most like Bynwyn of Sacred Forest, the elderly dispenser of wisdom to chiefs.

Valleyhome
-Crow the Watcher/Advisor, the one who spies upon the people and tells the chiefs. Remember Valleyhome is where the Blackbirds are used as heavy surveillance tools for crime suppression.
-Gwy and Gyo, the Divine Ancestors of the ancient families.
-Fythhagyna, the Wealth god, the source of all wealth and power. Likely to warp to become a prosperity god.
-Mathulmyn, likely to follow the facet most like Magwyna of Valleyhome, the wise knowing King who knows how to make everyone do as she planned. The depiction is very much keikaku-face.

Rainbow Trail
-Crow the Devourer, the one who consumes the dead. For obvious reasons as our necropolis.
-Gwy and Gyo, the Divine Ancestors of the ancient families.
-Fythhagyna, the Harvest God. Cue harvest metaphors and syncreticism with the Spirit of Death harvesting the souls of the dead.
-Mathulmyn, likely to be a blend/multiaspect approach as a combined ancestor spirit of kings, which pass upon death to dwell within their successors. All of them are buried here, you may recall, and their deeds are scribed onto the very walls.

Holy Sea
-Crow the Wanderer/Storm Crow(Syncretized with the rainbow storm pony of the nomads)?
-Gwy and Gyo, the Divine Ancestors of the ancient families
-Fythhagyna, the Bounty God. Here, where food comes from land and sea alike, she'd be associated with both forms of harvest
-Mathulmyn, most likely to be associated with Twythulmyn of Redshore, the King who knows the value of connections between the People and outside the People.
 
They have a really bad habit of that. The negaverse thread when they realized what they had evolved Greater Good into required two mod interventions and Arthur Dent to show up and yell at everyone before it was unlocked.
Dear lord. I really think this applies. In fact IT's original generation may have been spawned by this occurring.

Boredom +
Spite +
Fear of being wrong +
Misinformation +
Self-worth ÷
Mockery ÷
Condemnation ÷
Misunderstanding ×
Guilt ×
Talking past each other ×
Failure ×
Judgment
n=y
where y=correctness
and n=folly,
Harmony=lies,
life=pain,
self= [color= red]Salt[/color]
Truly the Salt Function is a powerful thing.​
 
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Unless you see us losing Divine Stewards sometime, I really don't think that is any danger of happening.

He would still be alien, as in there would still be very little known about him and his plan. Especially since this Temple would be right in the middle of the Sacred Forest.

Having Crow as the center focus would also open up the path of allowing our other Spirits to be multifaceted

Problem is their on the other side of the Lowlands, so yeah:V
The TH will fight us eventually we may even get a chance next mid turn to finally fight in a war if we come to the aid of the HK
 
So as a hypothetical if we conquer the xoh can we force them to devolve their trait back to GG.

If you were to conquer them you could ban cultural practices, and they might be able to redevelop the Greater Good practices from past accounts, but they would kind of be starting from scratch.

Also, good luck with the distances involved and the fact that while they find it distasteful the Thunder Horse find the Xoh way too useful to crack down on, and as long as they keep the practice within their own society they ignore it.
 
The TH will fight us eventually we may even get a chance next mid turn to finally fight in a war if we come to the aid of the HK
Ehh the HK are very unlikely to want to call upon us for help with the shitstorm we nearly caused. If we get the chance to help them of our own volition though we might want to.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 31, 2017 at 11:56 PM, finished with 44511 posts and 68 votes.
 
Let's just invade the TS first.

Expand through the hills, get us some nice land, then slaughter them with iron.

Seize control of both of the rivers, redirect the TS ones to create better water throughout the hills and dry out the TH's land, then move downward.
 
As far as I'm aware the only jobs that are likely to have small spaces are chimney cleaners and mining.
We don't have machines, yet, after all.
You can also use them as short range couriers, gofors, collectors of small items, extra labor, busy work handlers, etc... the point is kids are only unproductive now-a-days as a cultural choice. Kids will do all kinds of things when bribed with extra food. Sure they get more useful the older they get, but many hands make light work. I can't tell you how much faster jobs go when you can subcontract the minor unskilled labor. Having minions around to clean tools and clean up messes makes things so much faster than having to stop and do that yourself.
 
You can also use them as short range couriers, gofors, collectors of small items, extra labor, busy work handlers, etc... the point is kids are only unproductive now-a-days as a cultural choice. Kids will do all kinds of things when bribed with extra food. Sure they get more useful the older they get, but many hands make light work. I can't tell you how much faster jobs go when you can subcontract the minor unskilled labor. Having minions around to clean tools and clean up messes makes things so much faster than having to stop and do that yourself.
i.e. you can also hire children for jobs that anyone can do.

Doesn't mean they bring as much bread home to the family as a full grown man, for all that it means the flocks of outcast ruffians can be useful as couriers and thieves.

Most servant jobs will just involve the adults of the servant retainer families most nobles end up cultivating over time. Other people will be more likely to have their own children help out, as they won't have the money to burn hiring servants. But anyways...
 
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[X] [Temple] Gwy and Gyo
[X] [Crow] Benevolent
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
Let's just invade the TS first.

Expand through the hills, get us some nice land, then slaughter them with iron.

Seize control of both of the rivers, redirect the TS ones to create better water throughout the hills and dry out the TH's land, then move downward.
I figure the best plan is "invade" the TS by expanding east until they get pissed and then just Goomba Stomp them. It's basically the same thing but puts them on the first move and we get to see their tactics and force composition first, as well as possibly wearing themselves out a bit on our fortifications. We haven't had intel on how they fight in quite some time so I figure we need that before attacking.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on Jun 1, 2017 at 12:01 AM, finished with 44519 posts and 70 votes.
 
[X] [Temple] Fythhagyna
[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
Boredom +
Spite +
Fear of being wrong +
Misinformation +
Self-worth ÷
Mockery ÷
Condemnation ÷
Misunderstanding ×
Guilt ×
Talking past each other ×
Failure ×
Judgment
n=y
where y=correctness
and n=folly,
Harmony=lies,
life=pain,
self= Salt
I... uh... can't parse this in any meaningful way. Is that a good thing?
 
We are more likely to annex the Hathatyn since it's the kingdom next door to us.


I figure the best plan is "invade" the TS by expanding east until they get pissed and then just Goomba Stomp them. It's basically the same thing but puts them on the first move and we get to see their tactics and force composition first, as well as possibly wearing themselves out a bit on our fortifications. We haven't had intel on how they fight in quite some time so I figure we need that before attacking.
Yeah, basically my plan too. And if they don't attack us early that just gives us time to fortify and do activities elsewhere.

I... uh... can't parse this in any meaningful way. Is that a good thing?
It's just people being salty about people being salty.
 
That is way, way, way too much effort. Remember the trait swapping works both ways. HK has to have absorb some of The People's traits by now from distance alone. Culture crush is much easier as it works passively.
I'm not sure they even have any of our traits. We're the ones absorbing everyone in the area and we haven't lost a significant enough number to other civilizations.
 



Yeah, basically my plan too. And if they don't attack us early that just gives us time to fortify and do activities elsewhere.


It's just people being salty about people being salty.
I... uh... can't parse this in any meaningful way. Is that a good thing?
You are both kinda wrong.

It's a homage to the Anti-Life Equation. It describes the requirements to generate Salt in a thread. It's probably a good thing huhYeahGoodPoint that you can't parse it. I do and it hurts my soul.
 
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