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Paths of Civilization

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Academia Nut said:
There was the possibility that if you kept picking up sacred warriors you would have eventually developed those who channeled animal spirits into battle trances and rages, yes.
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Oh yessss. I like.

Welp folks new priority! Find traits that give sacred warriors again so we can come up Wolfgang Bersekers. :V
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 31, 2017 at 10:34 PM, finished with 44433 posts and 64 votes.
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Necratoid said:
So pretty much everyone at this point is going with 'Alien but comprehensible'. This means Crow is all about trolling people for their own good. A puzzle box that seeks you out and challenges you to solve it. Not so much a central focus as a primal driving force. However, this would make study of the unknown and progress the central focus.
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Not true if the alien but understandable option is voted in.

Another argument that had bubbled over with surprising ferocity was the nature of Crow, with the shamans realizing that they all had somewhat different ideas about the fundamental nature of Crow in all of his forms, and that also influenced the artwork they were getting in. Some saw the trickster and creator as being fundamentally benevolent in nature, with actions having a surface level cruelty leading to lessons with an ultimately good outcome. Others saw Crow as a being whose actions were primarily for his own cruel amusement, with the good beneath the bad being another layer of the joke. Still others conceived of Crow as having inscrutable motives that the People simply could not understand, moving towards goals that were his alone. A final group argued that Crow's true nature was unknown but not unknowable.
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The Green text is the part for benevolent while the orange is for alien/knowable.
 
[X] [Temple] Crow
[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
Academia Nut said:
There is actually a path to make that completely a thing.

In ancient Egypt there were periods where the pharaoh was expected to publicly masturbate to ejaculation during coronation in order to prove sufficient virility to ensure an heir. There are also creation stories where the creator god created the world by jacking off an either producing the world or fertilizing the world. With the right central deity, particularly Fythhagyna, you could totally have a the king "ritually fertilize the land" or something like that.

All while Crow watches from above.

Just a reminder, human beings have always been perverse little bastards.



Since before agriculture.
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Alright, totes going for harvest god. Am human, am pervert.

@Academia Nut just to make sure, if we don't pick crow here, then he gets painted on the ceiling like a representation of Eru?
 
Sivantic said:
That incredibly misread my meaning. I meant that as support for Crow. As he is our most important Spirit, alien and mysterious.

Fythhagyna would have made sense if we had made the Temple in Valleyhome as that is our breadbasket and makes most sense to place our Spirit of Agriculture there.
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That's just silly.

Our Sacred Forest is our promise to the land to take care of it, to keep it healthy so that it will in turn give us benefits. It is our appeasement to the terrestrial spirits so as to bring prosperity to us. I'd much rather have it tied and associated with farming than general mystery. General mystery would be a good argument for Valleyhome if anything, since people could come there and seek to learn in a densely populated area.

Voting for Fythhagyna is voting to tie our forest projects to taking care of the land further and reinforcing the idea after so long, playing off of our divine stewards trait, and making 'how to farm properly' an actual cornerstone of our religion with its own temple.

Think about it, when people come to us and ask what is most important for spiritual matters, it will be proper farming methods, the true success of the people.
 
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[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

As for the rest, hssss decision paralysis my old nemesis...

Tally!

Edit: nvm tally is stupid for whatever reason
Adhoc vote count started by ALanos on May 31, 2017 at 10:29 PM, finished with 44430 posts and 63 votes.
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[X] [Temple] Fythhagyna
[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[x] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
VoidZero said:
Not true if the alien but understandable option is voted in.
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All the shamans have been trying to figure out what acts of Crow actually mean and what actually are acts of Crow. The problem with orange and blue morality is what actually counts as good for you in their world view can be near nonsensical in your own. So Crow can be both alien and trying to help... what classifies as 'help' is literally the job of some shamans.
bluefur87 said:
Think about it, when people come to us and ask what is most important for spiritual matters, it will be proper farming methods, the true success of the people.
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Problem is that Urban centers have different views on what is most important. The nomad Hunter Marches rank military far more high on the list than other sections of The People. Adding in the proto-guilds is going to force a god of craftmanship to spawn. So while agriculture is the very much important as you move more people out of the farming jobs priorities of important shift to echo their own lives.

So while agriculture ends up in the 'duh' pile of important things its not really first on the important things list for everybody.
 
Necratoid said:
So while agriculture ends up in the 'duh' pile of important things its not really first on the important things list for everybody.
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Especially if we put her in, say, the Valleyhome temple - which is known as a) a city and b) hella fertile land - she'll become not only the goddess of the harvest but a mother goddess, of fertility, childbirth, and warmth. A Gaia, Hestia, and Demeter combo pack.

By contrast, putting Crow out in the Sacred Forest - which coincidentally is the crossroads of our nation and right by the Canal - it emphasizes the importance of knowledge and learning things yourselves. We learned writing because crow showed us the path, we learned to build the canal because Crow gave us the vision, we learned to tend to the forest because Crow challenged us with the Blight. Putting Crow in a mysterious place challenges us to learn about the outside world. Putting Crow in a city just challenges us to come up with secret societies.

The God of Kings obviously isn't very suited for here; G&G kind of are, but tbh I'd rather put them near the sea to emphasize the duality of ocean and land, foreigner and native.

@BungieONI
Yes, usually wine produced in a (non-extensive) drought is quite good, because the lack of water concentrates all of the flavor very densely in the grapes and the stress makes the vines dig their roots deeper, providing more nutrients which provides more flavors. This is of course dependent on temperature, rainfall still occurring, and the soil being able to hold some amount of water consistently.
 
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[X] [Temple] Fythhagyna
[X] [Crow] Benevolent
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
Necratoid said:
Problem is that Urban centers have different views on what is most important. The nomad Hunter Marches rank military far more high on the list than other sections of The People. Adding in the proto-guilds is going to force a god of craftmanship to spawn. So while agriculture is the very much important as you move more people out of the farming jobs priorities of important shift to echo their own lives.

So while agriculture ends up in the 'duh' pile of important things its not really first on the important things list for everybody.
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Which will be a problem no matter who we pick. Farming is food, food is the cornerstone of civilization for a good while and better farming practices are whats going to allow people to start pursing other jobs as less people are needed to farm. Trying to learn the unknown is fine and all, but most people aren't going to actually care and become very detached on a spiritual level, because that's the intellectual's concern, not the common person. The King's adviser matters in the benefit of the nation, but much less so when it comes down to the individual. Gwy and Go are really more symbolic of the deities in general, so I guess that's simple enough?

I mostly really want to reinforce the notion that the forests are tied to the fertility of the land with the vote. Because they are, but outside of a multigenerational experiment we aren't going to truly figure this out, so this gives some insulation against Philosophy's con, should that end up being a problem. It also is fitting and representative of what the Sacred Forest is genuinely about.
 
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Academia Nut said:
There is actually a path to make that completely a thing.

In ancient Egypt there were periods where the pharaoh was expected to publicly masturbate to ejaculation during coronation in order to prove sufficient virility to ensure an heir. There are also creation stories where the creator god created the world by jacking off an either producing the world or fertilizing the world. With the right central deity, particularly Fythhagyna, you could totally have a the king "ritually fertilize the land" or something like that.

All while Crow watches from above.

Just a reminder, human beings have always been perverse little bastards.
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Well, fun as that would be, requiring the King to perform public ritual masturbation would rather limit the royal options.

...also most of our non-hero kings would probably fail that test by the age they get the post.

Lilithium said:
i mean i already knew about the downright obscene Egyptian gods and lemme tell you the Shinto ones are also really wild but I WASN'T THINKING OF IT UNTIL NOW
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I doubt we'd make our gods shit out food.

Probably.
Probably.
Guile said:
Well, to a point. The grapes taste better, but it's not great for quantity.

Ideally you'd still have well water so you can try to get the best of both worlds.

Historic drought sprouts success for Napa vineyards
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Yeah, that's the idea, quantity is good, but quality would make it memorable compared to a bumper harvest, considering this will be educational for "what makes a good wine grape" as people try to figure out why for the love of wisdom the grapes never matched the drought year.

Academia Nut said:
There was the possibility that if you kept picking up sacred warriors you would have eventually developed those who channeled animal spirits into battle trances and rages, yes.
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@Academia Nut
Question on Sacred Warriors, were they something we got early from Sacred War? I suspect now that we built a temple we actually have the social and religious infrastructure to develop new sacred warriors again, while the earlier verson was the trait pushing us up a tier.
 
Carrnage said:
I want there to be a mural in every room with a crow hidden somewhere in the mural.
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...and then Crow was also known as 'Waldo' for inexplicable reasons.
Umi-san said:
Especially if we put her in, say, the Valleyhome temple - which is known as a) a city and b) hella fertile land - she'll become not only the goddess of the harvest but a mother goddess, of fertility, childbirth, and warmth. A Gaia, Hestia, and Demeter combo pack.
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Not sure where the details will end up, but basically why I said wrong location.
bluefur87 said:
I mostly really want to reinforce the notion that the forests are tied to the fertility of the land with the vote
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Personally, I think it makes more sense to make the first temple a temple dedicated to the concept of The People by venerating the progenitors... but I came in so late I'm not going to actually alter the vote.
 
BungieONI said:
Well that's the tricky bit, since we are in something of a moderate extensive drought. We seem to still be getting some rainfall but, it is somewhat concerning.
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I basically meant so extensive that even our tended trees start dying. But yeah it's somewhat concerning.

If it's any consolation, we likely are still stockpiling water in our standard irrigation system, and the location at coastal hills in Blackmouth means the vines will likely get enough water from morning fog to endure longer than, say, inland forests. Especially if we're spacing the vines appropriately.

@Academia Nut Are we putting the vines in rows or clusters?

Necratoid said:
Personally, I think it makes more sense to make the first temple a temple dedicated to the concept of The People by venerating the progenitors... but I came in so late I'm not going to actually alter the vote.
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Technically Crow was the ultimate progenitor, nay?
 
Umi-san said:
I basically meant so extensive that even our tended trees start dying. But yeah it's somewhat concerning.

If it's any consolation, we likely are still stockpiling water in our standard irrigation system, and the location at coastal hills in Blackmouth means the vines will likely get enough water from morning fog to endure longer than, say, inland forests. Especially if we're spacing the vines appropriately.

@Academia Nut Are we putting the vines in rows or clusters?


Technically Crow was the ultimate progenitor, nay?
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Do you know how metal content alters the flavor?

Yes I am basically thinking of using grapes as a prospecting tool.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 31, 2017 at 10:52 PM, finished with 44443 posts and 64 votes.
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Umi-san said:
Technically Crow was the ultimate progenitor, nay?
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Crow created the first spirits, but his role has never been as a progenitor, and he has other stuff as well. Gwy and Gyo are the parents of every other spirit, and that's the defining aspect of their mythos, that they (and Gwygowyn) are the ancestors of everyone.
 
[X] [Temple] Fythhagyna
[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[x] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

After readin the whole discussion I am convinced the harvest godess is the best godess although it is likely that if we get to vote in how we depict her I would preffer fully clothed.
Adhoc vote count started by Reader of all on May 31, 2017 at 10:56 PM, finished with 44446 posts and 65 votes.
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Umi-san said:
Technically Crow was the ultimate progenitor, nay?
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More that Crow was just kind of there first. All the important begatting legends are in the progenitors pairs court.

Crow is the divinity that has always kind of been there doing Crow things for Crow reasons.
Reader of all said:
After readin the whole discussion I am convinced the harvest godess is the best godess although it is likely that if we get to vote in how we depict her I would preffer fully clothed.
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In what exactly? Personal gear tends to be rather important with divinity.
 
@Academia Nut, what's the narrative reason for why we can't do Grand Sacrifice any more? It wasn't so long since the last one that the idea should've been forgotten from our people's memory.
 
I want Ceiling!Crow. Given enough time, Crow would almost certainly come to represent the challenges and rewards of space.
 
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