Paths of Civilization

No7sHere · May 28, 2017

[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
Lets at least try to do the just thing and figure out what actually happened, if the highlanders still attack us after we tried to make amends we can fight them then buy at least we tried. This also means that our warriors are subject to our own justice system.

hylas240 · May 28, 2017

Why are so many people wanting to be morally superior all of a sudden? Nobody was pulling this stuff when we discussed conquering the lowlands/steppes several times for hours on end.

tenchifew · May 28, 2017

Karugus said:
Guys, we just got shit for not looking at the consequences of our actions- have a glut of martial and too little stability. What makes you think ordering our army to fight parts of the rest of our army isn't liable to devolve into a massive, heaping shitshow.

Like that's the worst option as far as I'm concerned and it doesn't even have good odds of stopping the war.

No, TGG has a tendency to be able to evolve and mix with other traits, so we partially keep it around because it's both incredibly useful on it's own and because it potentially lets us improve other traits.

Because if we do not want to become a military junta it is the right thing to do.

SpeckofStardust · May 28, 2017

McLuvin said:
It's hinted at in the update that someone triggered this and the Thunder Horse Empire would gain the most out of the Highlanders being in a two front war

That someone who have to been pretty important in order to gather enough of our troops, which kinda puts doubt into this being started by a spy.

Marlin · May 28, 2017

[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)

DragonParadox · May 28, 2017

Karugus said:
Guys, we just got shit for not looking at the consequences of our actions- have a glut of martial and too little stability. What makes you think ordering our army to fight parts of the rest of our army isn't liable to devolve into a massive, heaping shitshow.

Like that's the worst option as far as I'm concerned and it doesn't even have good odds of stopping the war.

No, TGG has a tendency to be able to evolve and mix with other traits, so we partially keep it around because it's both incredibly useful on it's own and because it potentially lets us improve other traits.

We are at -1 stability hardly civil war worthy. Making amends and seeing justice done, not by outsiders but for ourselves is most in keeping with our traits.

tenchifew · May 28, 2017

hylas240 said:
Why are so many people wanting to be morally superior all of a sudden? Nobody was pulling this stuff when we discussed conquering the lowlands/steppes several times for hours on end.

Were we in the same thread?

There are plenty of people who very clearly said that they would not support a war of conquest.

aceraptor · May 28, 2017

hylas240 said:
Why are so many people wanting to be morally superior all of a sudden? Nobody was pulling this stuff when we discussed conquering the lowlands/steppes several times for hours on end.

Planning on expanding by absorbing broken away bits in the chaos is different than starting a offensive war for land.

McLuvin · May 28, 2017

SpeckofStardust said:
That someone who have to been pretty important in order to gather enough of our troops, which kinda puts doubt into this being started by a spy.

I put paranoia intensifies in there if that helps

Sivantic · May 28, 2017

Powerofmind said:
Oh, I was right about 'basically gang membership'. Too bad. I need to go let some air out of my ego before it inflates too much again...

Hmm...

Academia Nut said:
[X][Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations

Powerofmind said:
[] [Clan] Rework clan foundation and dissolution laws to be more adaptive (Basically turns clans into non-hereditary gangs. Good god this is a step towards anarchy)

Nope!

That is your own ass. Maybe if you pull your head out you can stop talking crap.

[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)

Powerofmind · May 28, 2017

Karugus said:
Like that's the worst option as far as I'm concerned and it doesn't even have good odds of stopping the war. It's incredibly halfassed, and liable to leave us fighting a war on far worse terms than before.

Hah, funny. as far as our current options go, "let the Highlanders fuck them up" appeals to TGG, "Grab and Punish" applies to our justice traits, while the two land grabs are based in our more aggressive honor traits. Considering the options, I'd prefer

[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)

SpeckofStardust · May 28, 2017

tenchifew said:
There are plenty of people who very clearly said that they would not support a war of conquest.

No people haven't wanted into the lowlands because it's a mess and we cant hold it all, moral reasons have rarely brought up for it at all.

MTB · May 28, 2017

[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)
// That whole quest over this civilization took responsibilty seriously. Now going 'a bunch of our warriors accidentally conquered a village, so we decide to do the right thing and conquer more' is against the last thousand years of cultural and ethical values. I'd expect that to have repercussions.

Sidhenlae · May 28, 2017

Academia Nut said:
Most of the other major settled groups are of the opinion that the People are an odd lot who have lots of good stuff and are generally rather generous, but seem to prefer to keep to themselves. There's also the general opinion that they're kind of weak since they don't engage in much fighting, but they're probably strong enough to make fighting in the hills a pain, and while there's good stuff beyond the threat of another rival taking a swing before you've made it to the good stuff means that if they're not going to cause trouble you might as well leave them alone for the time being.

Damn it, AN. You can't just go and dare the thread like that

[X] Attempt to capture the errant warriors and then make amends with the Highlanders (-5 Diplomacy, probable war with Highlanders)

If we war the Highlanders right now, the TH will swoop in and gobble up a lot of territory with their careful preparations for this war. We have enough on our plates without adding a sustained war to it. We can win it, sure, but do we have the capacity to actually use a victory rather than just earn it right now? Integrating new lands is not willy-nilly and will take generations to convert and we're actually in the middle of overhauling a thousand year old main power dynamic of the People - the clan system.

hYGP · May 28, 2017

@Academia Nut In terms of triggering Lord's Loyalty, are we allies to the Highland Kingdom?
What do our advisers think about each of the options in turns? Limited to Admin, Martial, Diplo, and Spirit.

Powerofmind · May 28, 2017

Sivantic said:
Nope!

That is your own ass. Maybe if you pull your head out you can stop talking crap.

HMMM!

Powerofmind said:
[] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations (If people start having their names change when they move out, it's going to get complicated fast. Likely to put the highest stresses on the administrative system, and might institute some helpful social conventions)

Oh shit. Was... was I right?

Be more nit-picky. Please. Absolutely avoid my guess on what was actually voted in, because damn that basically defines everything AN said on the matter.

maximillian · May 28, 2017

So the plus side of punish them :
1- show that acting without order of the king /chiefs is non tolerable. (possible Legitimacy or centralisation)
2-will give us leeway to placate the hk
3- we can hide our military tech advances.
4- will be able to interrogate them for answers.

Downsides :

1- duo to low stab and general unrest and large amounts of warriors, could lead to military rebellion or certainly further unrest (stab and Legitimacy hits or rebels/coup)

2- will damage our already damaged authority as it shows we can't control our men.(Prestige and legitimacy hits)

As for throwing them under the buss same downsides but slightly worse hits. And only the first two benefits.

Benifits of reinforcing /March :

1- it's our first large scale war in half a millennium, could lead to enormous advances in military and logistics.
2- we can get loot (art, Prestige, Econ and possibly Legitimacy)
3- it's an opportunity to grab new lands
4- if we win it establishes us as the dominant power /sole power in the West. (definite Prestige, other Benifits could be anything)
5- gets rid of excessive martial
6- distracts people from trouble at home (stab gain or temp pause of crises)

Downsides :
1- it's our first real war in half a millennium, and it's against war experts, we could lose.
2- we could be left open to attacks from other directions
3- the loot could create demands for more war as it becomes a valid means of social and economical progression.
4- we could win but end up ravaged and half burned. (loss of a bit of every stat.)
5-it distracts the administration from trouble at home.

That's as good a summary of points as I could make.

pblur · May 28, 2017

Rakuhn said:
People do realize that the possible new faction would be made up of our people, right? That means that they have a good chance of having a large proportion of our techs, including iron.

No. Our smelting is done by artisans, not common people. We made that decision explicitly a long time ago, and it's paying off now. There is zero chance these warriors know iron tech.

Broccoliccoli · May 28, 2017

hylas240 said:
Why are so many people wanting to be morally superior all of a sudden? Nobody was pulling this stuff when we discussed conquering the lowlands/steppes several times for hours on end.

Werent most plans about swooping in once everything tumbles back into anarchy again so we are saviours instead of invaders?

DragonParadox · May 28, 2017

huhYeahGoodPoint said:
@Academia Nut In terms of triggering Lord's Loyalty, are we allies to the Highland Kingdom?
What do our advisers think about each of the options in turns? Limited to Admin, Martial, Diplo, and Spirit.

That has been answered already, we are not allied, though previously they would have liked us to be.

hylas240 · May 28, 2017

tenchifew said:
Were we in the same thread?

There are plenty of people who very clearly said that they would not support a war of conquest.

If people have been saying it then I must've missed it/ it wasn't to this degree.

aceraptor said:
Planning on expanding by absorbing broken away bits in the chaos is different than starting a offensive war for land.

Expanding is plopping down settlements and attacking anyone who objects. That isn't peaceful, it's exploiting the martial weakness of the current polities in order to grab land.

Omegahugger · May 28, 2017

Umi-san said:
Please note this. It's possible that the TH/supporters orchestrated it. At best we have an underhanded expansionist faction.

Much more importantly, why are snakes assumed to be untrustworthy? They even hiss to warn people before biting them, they're pretty much the most honest poisonous reptiles around!

McLuvin · May 28, 2017

huhYeahGoodPoint said:
are we allies to the Highland Kingdom?

We have been allies and fought several wars together on several occasions in the past, several noble families have also married royal and noble Highlander daughters in the past

MTB · May 28, 2017

hylas240 said:
Why are so many people wanting to be morally superior all of a sudden? Nobody was pulling this stuff when we discussed conquering the lowlands/steppes several times for hours on end.

If you've got a culture of responsibility and peace and suddenly go 'let's conquer', that should lead to civil war. The shamans are not happy because it violates the accord with the spirits, the people are not happy because harmony is violated, the north may see it as a good thing because honor ...

Karugus · May 28, 2017

tenchifew said:
Because if we do not want to become a military junta it is the right thing to do.

See, I too am fond of baseless statements that twist and take conjecture to our farthest limits. But this takes the cake.

DragonParadox said:
We are at -1 stability hardly civil war worthy. Making amends and seeing justice done, not by outsiders but for ourselves is most in keeping with our traits.

I'm not assuming outright civil war, but defections on our end seem likelier than not. Keep in mind, a lot of the warriors we're depending on arresting these guys are likely to at least be sympathetic if not have some knowledge of their families/clans.

Powerofmind said:
Hah, funny. as far as our current options go, "let the Highlanders fuck them up" appeals to TGG, "Grab and Punish" applies to our justice traits, while the two land grabs are based in our more aggressive honor traits. Considering the options, I'd prefer

See, that's a bit more reasonable than; 'Stahp! If we do this we're toatz evul!' or 'Imma do this because fuck military juntas!XD'

Paths of Civilization

In Madness Fallen

In Madness Fallen

Civilised Sheep

Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn

Inattentive Idiot