BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Can you fix your to the west vote? The tallier is gonna freak out a bit about it in this format. If you want to go west please copy the full vote text from the update.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
[x] [Law] Recruit more peacekeepers (Main More Blackbirds)
[X] [Diplo] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)
Switching to sailing mission
[X] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
[x] [Law] Recruit more peacekeepers (Main More Blackbirds)
[X] [Diplo] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)
Switching to sailing mission
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Normally i would pay a bit more attention at possibility of election districts tempering, but at this age and setting the populations are moving very rapidly; thus lowering the risk of it.
The update mentioned the new/old residents are getting less familiar with their neighborhood chiefs so as long as we don't form political parties we will be fine?
The various clans are competing against each other, so either keep them numerous or do away with them, eventually.
The update mentioned the new/old residents are getting less familiar with their neighborhood chiefs so as long as we don't form political parties we will be fine?
The various clans are competing against each other, so either keep them numerous or do away with them, eventually.
Okay, I REALLY don't want to Restrict Access. Building walls for defense is fine and dandy, yes. Building walls to keep the "undesirables" out, less so. First, it creates an obvious area for slums to grow and fester, outside the walls. Second, it creates a nasty cultural precedent for exclusion. If someone commits a crime, they become a half-exile or get executed, depending on the severity. That's the law. However, there's no place in the law for excluding someone because they might commit a crime. If someone wants to come into the city, they should be able to, regardless of where they're from. I want to solve the problem, not just push it out of view. And if we can't solve it right now? Let the city dissolve. We don't super need it anyway, we've got room to expand.
I don't want to do Peacekeepers because we're already topped on Martial, which I think might be causing this problem.
I do want to do Enforce because it both helps us keep the situation stable while we work on a solution and increases Centralization, which we've been trying to do anyway.
I don't want to do Peacekeepers because we're already topped on Martial, which I think might be causing this problem.
I do want to do Enforce because it both helps us keep the situation stable while we work on a solution and increases Centralization, which we've been trying to do anyway.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
There is no reason whatsoever to give valleyhome more power, especially when we are already seeing IC complains from our people. Ignoring them is how major schisms develop.
[X] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration
This whole problem is like the tax problem. Simplicity is better here, and we don't yet have the capability to properly set this up, especially in the middle of a megaproject. Edit: according to AN a geographic or occupational movement should be easiest. While this can be risky and lead to hereditary property, it also is the same system we use today, and makes the most sense. Where you live is where you're governed. Whoever governs you knows about your issues,
[X] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
Edit: this is the best option, in retrospect. powerofmind had a very good point a page down or so. Essentially, this is the least risk or offensive option that should do something to calm the problem. Additionally, it should help relieve the strain on determining what the actual city boundaries are.
[X] [Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers
Let's let the east blow itself to pieces and then maybe we can absorb the remnants of one group or other.
There is no reason whatsoever to give valleyhome more power, especially when we are already seeing IC complains from our people. Ignoring them is how major schisms develop.
[X] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration
This whole problem is like the tax problem. Simplicity is better here, and we don't yet have the capability to properly set this up, especially in the middle of a megaproject. Edit: according to AN a geographic or occupational movement should be easiest. While this can be risky and lead to hereditary property, it also is the same system we use today, and makes the most sense. Where you live is where you're governed. Whoever governs you knows about your issues,
[X] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
Edit: this is the best option, in retrospect. powerofmind had a very good point a page down or so. Essentially, this is the least risk or offensive option that should do something to calm the problem. Additionally, it should help relieve the strain on determining what the actual city boundaries are.
[X] [Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers
Let's let the east blow itself to pieces and then maybe we can absorb the remnants of one group or other.
Last edited:
- Location
- New Zealand
[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
Because trees.
[X] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
I'd love to go occupational, but I don't think we have good enough communication technology to properly implement it right now. Also, this plus CA would mean immigrants would potentially be adopted by clans without the need for marriage, which is a pretty adorable mental image imo.
[X] [Law] Recruit more peacekeepers (Main More Blackbirds)
Blackbirds are cool, we need cops, and I'm not afraid of red martial.
[X] [Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers)
As much as I'd love to see who else is out there, we should probably figure out what's going on with the dudes we crushed with our iron. It's also a good way to see the results of what our Marches are doing to the Metal Nomads firsthand.
Because trees.
[X] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
I'd love to go occupational, but I don't think we have good enough communication technology to properly implement it right now. Also, this plus CA would mean immigrants would potentially be adopted by clans without the need for marriage, which is a pretty adorable mental image imo.
[X] [Law] Recruit more peacekeepers (Main More Blackbirds)
Blackbirds are cool, we need cops, and I'm not afraid of red martial.
[X] [Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers)
As much as I'd love to see who else is out there, we should probably figure out what's going on with the dudes we crushed with our iron. It's also a good way to see the results of what our Marches are doing to the Metal Nomads firsthand.
Uh...you realize election districts are relatively good when populations are stable right? When theres a lot of people moving around there's a lot of opportunity to screw with it.
Controlling access doesn't quite work like that though. The problem is, our current Blackbirds cannot catch the culprits when they might be anywhere in or out of the city by the time the crime is discovered. By building walls around and through the city into districts, it means that the search space is dramatically lowered, as you can enforce checkpoints and make the job easier.
Because of our traits, we don't accept crimes being done, whether on desirables or not.
We already have a lot of blackbirds. We need to Enforce Law if we want cops that are out in the public instead of the stealth ninjas removing those who disrupt harmony.
UbeOne
Daydreaming CPU
- Location
- Philippines
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
[X] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
[X] [Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers
[X] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
[X] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
[X] [Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers
- Location
- The underworld
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm doing blackbirds for two reasons:
1. The hope that we can get an actual (primitive) police system out of it, which should both be a big improvement and presumably at least cost as much martial to set up as the action gives us, so the martial limit isn't a problem
2. I intend to push for founding the NE march next turn; it'll fix the martial issue, our prestige is pretty stable given the other marches keep kicking nomad ass, it'll completely shield us from the steppes, it'll add more actions to our polity, and the NE one should be in a position to help if we end up at war with the thunder horse
- Location
- Voidbetweenstars
[x] [Temple] Sacred Forest
Not Valley home to much conentation of power in a single place leads to greed problems of a big kind.
[x] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
If we weren't in a mega project..... this is the most safe choice.
[x] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
This isn't pereventing people from coming in, it's making it easy to tell when they come in and easier to lock down movement if there is a major problem.
[x] [Diplo] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)
I want to know if our sea in closed in or not.
Not Valley home to much conentation of power in a single place leads to greed problems of a big kind.
[x] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
If we weren't in a mega project..... this is the most safe choice.
[x] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
This isn't pereventing people from coming in, it's making it easy to tell when they come in and easier to lock down movement if there is a major problem.
[x] [Diplo] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)
I want to know if our sea in closed in or not.
- Location
- The underworld
[x] [Clan] Rework clan foundation and dissolution laws to be more adaptive
Note that it would only be within the cities. It's obviously impractical outside of the cities, definitely, but when everyone is at most an hour's walk away, it's a lot more reasonable and this would likely lead to a faster spread of innovation within an occupation as everyone who does that job will be in communication with each other.
That seems really unlikely to me. Enforce Law seems far more likely, since we already have a bunch of blackbirds, and they do more stealthy ninja things. You want your police to be out in the open and preventing crime, and that's what we do with Enforce Law.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Won't people concerned about gerrymandering? That is only possible if the political leaning of the population is stable and predictable, which in turn requires the population to have minimal moving and/or shifting.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Yeeep~
I wonder how the North Nomads are doing. Maybe they are moving this way?
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Ooo! It's a tally!
Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 1674 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.1
Task: Temple
[33][Temple] Sacred Forest
[2][Temple] Redshore
[2][Temple] Upper Valleyhome
[1][Temple] Rainbow Trail
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Law
[18][Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
[14][Law] Recruit more peacekeepers (Main More Blackbirds)
[6][Law] Crackdown on all this crime (Main Enforce Law)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Diplo
[22][Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers)
[11][Diplo] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)
[5][Diplo] Remind the lowlands of your wealth and power (Main Salt Gift)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Clan
[18][Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
[9][Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration
[6][Clan] Rework clan foundation and dissolution laws to be more adaptive
[3][Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of occupationally linked administration
Total No. of Voters: 40
Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 1674 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.1
Task: Temple
[33][Temple] Sacred Forest
[2][Temple] Redshore
[2][Temple] Upper Valleyhome
[1][Temple] Rainbow Trail
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Law
[18][Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
[14][Law] Recruit more peacekeepers (Main More Blackbirds)
[6][Law] Crackdown on all this crime (Main Enforce Law)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Diplo
[22][Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers)
[11][Diplo] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)
[5][Diplo] Remind the lowlands of your wealth and power (Main Salt Gift)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Clan
[18][Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations
[9][Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration
[6][Clan] Rework clan foundation and dissolution laws to be more adaptive
[3][Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of occupationally linked administration
Total No. of Voters: 40
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
[X] [Temple] Rainbow Trail
waterfall makes it more impressive, I'm also not opposed to Redshore as it is a population center that isn't Vallyhome.
[X] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration
A pain in the but to implement, but it's what most real life nations settled on so it must work.
[X] [Law] Crackdown on all this crime (Main Enforce Law)
Gives stability while not spending or increasing martial, also walls are only really useful to segregate low and high crime areas, not cause peace.
[X] [Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers)
I want to get in contact with these people, especially while the metal workers are probably still scared of us.
But I also like a sailing mission to get a better picture of the south-west coast. Is there a Constantinople equivalent? Or even a route between different seas there at all? if there isn't a city in that gap could we found a colony or trading post there?
waterfall makes it more impressive, I'm also not opposed to Redshore as it is a population center that isn't Vallyhome.
[X] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration
A pain in the but to implement, but it's what most real life nations settled on so it must work.
[X] [Law] Crackdown on all this crime (Main Enforce Law)
Gives stability while not spending or increasing martial, also walls are only really useful to segregate low and high crime areas, not cause peace.
[X] [Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers)
I want to get in contact with these people, especially while the metal workers are probably still scared of us.
But I also like a sailing mission to get a better picture of the south-west coast. Is there a Constantinople equivalent? Or even a route between different seas there at all? if there isn't a city in that gap could we found a colony or trading post there?
Powerofmind
In Madness Fallen
- Location
- United States
Choose a location for the new temple
[] [Temple] Upper Valleyhome (Nope. People are pissy that UV gets all the good stuff)
[] [Temple] Rainbow Trail (Eh...)
[] [Temple] Redshore (Eh-er)
[] [Temple] Sacred Forest (Easily the most interesting and 'fair' pick)
City clan politics
As a primer, I want to explain my view of what this represents. Clans as they are basically self-police. In modern terms, the entire city is basically run by a thousand different family mafias (or, very generously, a thousand small greek states). The king's men are less police officers, bearing more similarity to straight up national guard, where any action is basically martial law. So, with that in mind...
[] [Clan] Rework clan foundation and dissolution laws to be more adaptive (Basically turns clans into non-hereditary gangs. Good god this is a step towards anarchy)
[] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations (If people start having their names change when they move out, it's going to get complicated fast. Likely to put the highest stresses on the administrative system, and might institute some helpful social conventions)
[] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration (Organize city precincts, shift the burden of local management and grievances to a government apparatus; potential Hierarchy legacy bonus)
[] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of occupationally linked administration (Organize the city by job, shift the burden of management of disputes and such to a government apparatus; potential Centralization legacy bonus)
[] [Clan] Leave things be (This will not work, unless entire sections of the city are portioned off organically so clans can form and take up space artificially)
Valleyhome law
[] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall) (Walls are a natural barrier to city expansion. While they CAN be ignored, people will prefer to build inside as long as possible before building beyond, which will likely raise the econ-expansion needed for the city to dissolve)
[] [Law] Recruit more peacekeepers (Main More Blackbirds) (Greater chance to develop peaceful law enforcement and internal dispute settlement as a government job, rather than a clan one)
[] [Law] Crackdown on all this crime (Main Enforce Law) (Just take the stability. Take it now)
Diplomatic moves?
[] [Diplo] Send missions to the east (Secondary Trade missions to Highlanders and Thunder Horse) (Check on the war going on beneath the Hat of the Lowlands)
[] [Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers) (Check on the boat friends and maybe see if the nomads got ousted from the metal workers (or forgot they were nomads))
[] [Diplo] Remind the lowlands of your wealth and power (Main Salt Gift) (Free stuff)
[] [Diplo] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission) (Free stuff, maybe find even more people we can confuse with other people)
[] [Diplo] Stay at home, garden (Main Expand Econ) (A little free stuff)
[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration
[X] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
[X] [Diplo] Remind the lowlands of your wealth and power (Main Salt Gift)
Give me dem free stuffs. Also, small-scale geographic administration is a hugely useful technique for managing a city.
[] [Temple] Upper Valleyhome (Nope. People are pissy that UV gets all the good stuff)
[] [Temple] Rainbow Trail (Eh...)
[] [Temple] Redshore (Eh-er)
[] [Temple] Sacred Forest (Easily the most interesting and 'fair' pick)
City clan politics
As a primer, I want to explain my view of what this represents. Clans as they are basically self-police. In modern terms, the entire city is basically run by a thousand different family mafias (or, very generously, a thousand small greek states). The king's men are less police officers, bearing more similarity to straight up national guard, where any action is basically martial law. So, with that in mind...
[] [Clan] Rework clan foundation and dissolution laws to be more adaptive (Basically turns clans into non-hereditary gangs. Good god this is a step towards anarchy)
[] [Clan] Make clan adoption rules better able to handle situations (If people start having their names change when they move out, it's going to get complicated fast. Likely to put the highest stresses on the administrative system, and might institute some helpful social conventions)
[] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration (Organize city precincts, shift the burden of local management and grievances to a government apparatus; potential Hierarchy legacy bonus)
[] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of occupationally linked administration (Organize the city by job, shift the burden of management of disputes and such to a government apparatus; potential Centralization legacy bonus)
[] [Clan] Leave things be (This will not work, unless entire sections of the city are portioned off organically so clans can form and take up space artificially)
Valleyhome law
[] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall) (Walls are a natural barrier to city expansion. While they CAN be ignored, people will prefer to build inside as long as possible before building beyond, which will likely raise the econ-expansion needed for the city to dissolve)
[] [Law] Recruit more peacekeepers (Main More Blackbirds) (Greater chance to develop peaceful law enforcement and internal dispute settlement as a government job, rather than a clan one)
[] [Law] Crackdown on all this crime (Main Enforce Law) (Just take the stability. Take it now)
Diplomatic moves?
[] [Diplo] Send missions to the east (Secondary Trade missions to Highlanders and Thunder Horse) (Check on the war going on beneath the Hat of the Lowlands)
[] [Diplo] Send missions to the west (Secondary Trade missions to Hathatyn and Metal Workers) (Check on the boat friends and maybe see if the nomads got ousted from the metal workers (or forgot they were nomads))
[] [Diplo] Remind the lowlands of your wealth and power (Main Salt Gift) (Free stuff)
[] [Diplo] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission) (Free stuff, maybe find even more people we can confuse with other people)
[] [Diplo] Stay at home, garden (Main Expand Econ) (A little free stuff)
[X] [Temple] Sacred Forest
[X] [Clan] Dissolve clans within the city in favour of geographically linked administration
[X] [Law] Restrict access points (Main Build Wall)
[X] [Diplo] Remind the lowlands of your wealth and power (Main Salt Gift)
Give me dem free stuffs. Also, small-scale geographic administration is a hugely useful technique for managing a city.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
The bit about Buddhism is only partially true, and the Shintoism flat out wrong. In Japan, both religions got heavily involved in national politics, and the different sects even competed amongst each other to try and be the most respected and fasionable. Like, during the Heian era it was such a mark of honor for a monk to have gone to China to study that many got a lot of credit in the court. Not to mention that during the Sengoku Jidai, the Ikko-ikki were a vicious faction centered around militant Buddhism and was a very strong group.
Granted, this form of politicalization is a good thing, as it was those factions competing for the favor of the Imperial Court, not the control of it. But it is still important thing to be aware of for how our religion could develop in the future.