Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
OK, you talked me down to a couple secondaries on different turns. Shouldn't be hard to squeeze in.
I'd rather not enforce law purely for it's stat benefits. If an update comes along complaining of corruption, on the other hand, sure. (Also, we have a lot of walls, which makes this harder.)
We can do double main trail at least once. It will put us in the yellow, but that's OK.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
I was looking exactly that up last night, but my google-fu failed me. That makes me feel much better about the bandwagon.
I... still think forest is better though. But Warding actually has a good shot with that info.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Regarding the idea that golden ages get harder, the closest I can find is:
Cooldown != harder though; it's just to keep us from gaming going in and out repeatedly.
We need better building techniques first. Grand Dam or a Golden Age is your best bet for getting that. (Since either one forces innovation. Econ+Diplo+Martial is probably the best if you're looking for construction improvements, and that's what we've got this time (last time was Art+Mysticism which metal studies is related to)) Trails now is mostly just more of what we have right now.
"General mediocre lower level management" is an indication that corruption is likely to be incoming soon, and we should raise centralization to deal with it somehow, be it via Enforce Law or Trails.
Double Mains have nonlinear effects. It's highly likely that it won't provide more centralization, instead being more diplo as we build trails to our neighbors.
- Location
- Austria
With how we really like our walls (which is not wrong by any means) Enforce Law probably won't be very effective.
If we are going to use Enforce Law, we do it to enforce the law, not any effect it may have on centralization.
- Location
- Austria
Huh?
It says it about overall effectiveness of action, which presumably includes, well, enforcing law.
A lot of people want a lot more walls in the medium-short term (and I'm fine with that, they're useful). As such we should Enforce Law soon, as we will be building defenses faster than we expand.
Enforce Law's text makes it sound a lot more like it's a show of force/display. Restore Order is what we use to actually enforce the law where we make those who disrupt harmony disappear. Enforce Law just makes people want to follow the law more since we have a cool army and will help them. (As opposed to Enforce Authority, where we have a scary army and they don't want to become our enemy)
- Location
- Illinois
I'd like to do double main trails for two reasons personally. One, we've never done a double main on the same thing, I believe, and new trails is one of those things that I can see it being beneficial to do so. I mean, what are the negatives of building more roads?
Two, massive road building will likely give the tech increase to make our roads better in the future. We won't hit roman level bullshit roads, most likely, but we'd still see a pretty good improvement I suspect.
Two, massive road building will likely give the tech increase to make our roads better in the future. We won't hit roman level bullshit roads, most likely, but we'd still see a pretty good improvement I suspect.
[X] Look around for more reasonable people (Main Sailing Mission)
[X] Main provinces (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] Challenge the validity of the Sacred Forest (???)
I don't think we've ever done a Sailing Mission, nevermind a main one, so I actually like this option the best. I think the Salt Gift would be a much better option than the trade missions, since we visit all of our neighbours with that option, instead of just the two major powers.
Settling the nomads in the main provinces avoids enhancing cultural drift in the marches.
Finally, for the challenge, either the Sacred Warding or Forest would be fine. Sacred Forest is our oldest wonder, I'd imagine that over the centuries a lot of cruft has accumulated and we've advanced quite far from when we first completed it. Looking at it closely could provide extra benefits and improvements. While the Sacred Warding might be easier to prove, we aren't likely to find any major improvements to our methods by looking at it. I see far more potential benefits to looking at the Sacred Forest again. It'll also make us take the Study Forest action and that's the most neglected of all the study actions.
[X] Main provinces (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] Challenge the validity of the Sacred Forest (???)
I don't think we've ever done a Sailing Mission, nevermind a main one, so I actually like this option the best. I think the Salt Gift would be a much better option than the trade missions, since we visit all of our neighbours with that option, instead of just the two major powers.
Settling the nomads in the main provinces avoids enhancing cultural drift in the marches.
Finally, for the challenge, either the Sacred Warding or Forest would be fine. Sacred Forest is our oldest wonder, I'd imagine that over the centuries a lot of cruft has accumulated and we've advanced quite far from when we first completed it. Looking at it closely could provide extra benefits and improvements. While the Sacred Warding might be easier to prove, we aren't likely to find any major improvements to our methods by looking at it. I see far more potential benefits to looking at the Sacred Forest again. It'll also make us take the Study Forest action and that's the most neglected of all the study actions.
maximillian
Civilised Sheep
- Location
- Ranch
Do not underestimate the effects of roads on civilization.
Entire cities rose and fell due to roads.
Be it a new road with towns rising up to service the travlers and perhaps a whole city if the volume of traffic or commerce is sufficient.
The building of new roads also caused the collapse of many a proud and ancient commercial city, as commerce left and made use of quicker roads.
And it is with roads that great armies traveled great distances in record time with supply trains in tow.
Roads made the Roman empire possible, they were its viens, in which troops and coins flowed.
And Most importantly: paved roads are a damn sight prettier than dirt trails.
Entire cities rose and fell due to roads.
Be it a new road with towns rising up to service the travlers and perhaps a whole city if the volume of traffic or commerce is sufficient.
The building of new roads also caused the collapse of many a proud and ancient commercial city, as commerce left and made use of quicker roads.
And it is with roads that great armies traveled great distances in record time with supply trains in tow.
Roads made the Roman empire possible, they were its viens, in which troops and coins flowed.
And Most importantly: paved roads are a damn sight prettier than dirt trails.
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- Location
- Austria
Given that we have proliferation of civilian metal tools and all, I am not sure Trails are all that unlikely to jump in quality.
Meanwhile, if I was to pick the shiny we go for - our civ is in the process of a pointed demonstration as to why the Library is valuable. There's a decent chance we'll get bonuses for starting it immediately - in which case, double-maining anything won't be happening for a few turns.
And I'm not willing to put off raising centralization in the hopes of preserving the opportunity for a different shiny.
The sooner we max out art, the sooner we can finish the Library project faster, which roadbuilding will help us do.
We've seen our provinces do Double Main Expand Economy (linear effects) and Double Main Build Walls (triggers Canal, pre-iron cost 2 econ, now likely costs 3 or 4). We've also done double- and triple-megaproject, and the triple triggered Symphony and gave us 4 Mains' worth of progress, nothing special on the double from that but we had a hero providing double progress the whole time so we got linear 4 mains.
None of them triggered an innovation.
We're at 11 art. With the diplomacy overflow our trade missions are likely to get us, it's almost certainly going to be maxed out in a turn whatever we do.
And in any case faffing about trying to max out Art when Mysticism is the actual limiter on how fast we can build the Library is an utter waste of time. Just start the Library and leave Policy on Balanced, we'll get what we need.
Double main wall did walls with integrated towers.
- Location
- Austria
Thing is, with the Policy Megaproject, we can build Library in....4-6 actions => 1 Main, 3 Provincial(?), 1 from Symphony, maybe kick to make sure - in 1 turn.
While having another Secondary to, for example, plop down a vineyard and go for double Main Trails turn after next, with provinces hopefully doing free switch (and if not, Expand Econs are fine too).
Why should we be using the Policy Megaproject?
Balanced is in many ways a superior Policy to be on, and anything we lose in speed to not having Policy support we gain in starting earlier.
- Location
- Illinois
Province actions don't count or me, they are somewhat inferior compared to our main actions. And Megaprojects already give innovations, so I imagine the threshold is higher there, if it is actually even possible. I mean, we did get the rush builder legacy from building megaprojects so fast, so that might be what we get instead.
Double trails just seems like something that could give some pretty cool advancements, and if it doesn't, it still gives us a shitload of roads to make travel easier.
By overflowing art, we get an additional mysticism to speed up the project.
Or, you know, we could get mysticism by actually investing in mysticism. Or by letting our provinces do it for us, which they're quite inclined to do.