Clearly this means Quality is absolutely the best possible counter to the Not!Persians as we can pull a Not!300. There's no way a movie can lie to me.
Just means we need to put forests everywhere.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Just means we need to put forests everywhere.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's the shamans coming to a consensus that that belief is wrong and then forcibly re-educating everyone that its stupid and they should forget about it (along with some other components), using up a lot of the built up shared thinking space.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Borgalicious
- Location
- Madness realms
That film is totally 100% factClearly this means Quality is absolutely the best possible counter to the Not!Persians as we can pull a Not!300. There's no way a movie can lie to me.
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
@Necratoid Its still useful but its not what we thought
- Location
- his hidden lair
Iknowrite? Hollywood is fundamentally incapable of lying, like the Fae.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This still sounds to me like you are saying "First War in forever + Golden Age will create Stupid", basic logic which translates to me as "The Golden Age is worthless because it is being corrupted by the War."
I just honestly don't want to fight you over it though. Not worth my time.
The consensus is that this is actually low on the possibility list of what could happen. The idea is it hovers anywhere from 25 to 40% on whether it would do this.
I do agree about the action costing and equivalence.
Another factor is this:
Which concerns folks who are voting that the big drop in Mysticism will drop us out of the Golden Age.
ConfusedPotato
Unverified Verifier
- Location
- Australia
[X] [Honour] Quality training
[X] [Mystic] Evolve spiritual value (-7 Mysticism)
[X] [Goal] Humiliate (Hard, +1 Prestige)
[X] [Stallions] Focus efforts on the Thunder Speakers
[X] [Mystic] Evolve spiritual value (-7 Mysticism)
[X] [Goal] Humiliate (Hard, +1 Prestige)
[X] [Stallions] Focus efforts on the Thunder Speakers
DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
2 of the options ARE it transforming to a higher form. Wait is saying 'eh, its fine'
- Location
- Hell
Untrue. AN said that Loyalty is the honor trait that leads to discipline.
Crazy7s1
Excellent
Quality is still more worthwhile.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
2 of the options are "let's alter or expand our spiritual values" not "let's transmute the system as a whole to a higher form"
i.e. I'm pursuing the unknown shiny while y'all basic b*tches are pursuing the known shiny
#checksnailscuttingly
- Location
- his hidden lair
Honestly, the association of warfare with this Golden Age will be much less 'glorious conquest' and more institutionalizing the mindset of 'Don't tread on me'. That any perceived violation of our sovereignty deserves confrontation- and if need be warfare to ensure it stops.
I mean, keep in mind what this looks like to outsiders- the TS's kids are just being kids ( I'm pretty sure most borders in the lowlands are a lot less impermeable than ours so this has to happen) the Delves tell them to cut that shit out (maybe with an or else) and the TS basically says 'fuck you we do what we want' which proceeds with the Delves waging war for the first time in (the Lowland's understanding) history, and so far they're living up to the hype with a massive numbers advantage and pretty notable morale. The fact our goal here basically amounts to making the Thunder Speaker beg for us to stop and openly apologize for being far out in the wrong will further establish the mindset you leave the fucking Delves alone or they'll make you leave them alone.
I will say, Loyalty is getting more and more appealing to me and I think it is surprisingly manageable to us thanks to our cultural values, but I think it's easier to transition to that once we emphasise training and teaching our warriors more. The emphasis on training should further promote versatility and with that our warriors at large can gain a better understanding of how each role intermeshed and fits onto a battlefield. I think people insisting Quality is bad simply because it focuses mostly on making our doodz better is giving it too little credit. Keep in mind these are cultural values as opposed to purely militaristic values. And that means if we have a culture that encourages our warriors to be the best they can be, we'll probably develop a culture that emphasises being better warleaders/chiefs as well and that encourages military innovation in a big way. Establishing an ethos of always aspiring to do better, or at least making 'sufficient' harder to achieve would do a lot to enable other advances and cultural traits.
We're going to want some semblance of cultural values for all three of these aspects eventually. Quality to promote military professionalism, quantity to encourage a large and complex standing army, and loyalty to establish esprit de corps and loyalty to the state. I just think the introspection and direct pursuit of any available edge for quality makes achieving the others easier.
I mean, keep in mind what this looks like to outsiders- the TS's kids are just being kids ( I'm pretty sure most borders in the lowlands are a lot less impermeable than ours so this has to happen) the Delves tell them to cut that shit out (maybe with an or else) and the TS basically says 'fuck you we do what we want' which proceeds with the Delves waging war for the first time in (the Lowland's understanding) history, and so far they're living up to the hype with a massive numbers advantage and pretty notable morale. The fact our goal here basically amounts to making the Thunder Speaker beg for us to stop and openly apologize for being far out in the wrong will further establish the mindset you leave the fucking Delves alone or they'll make you leave them alone.
To be fair, an honour trait that revolves around being better and more devoted warriors will probably have the knock on effect of leading to better discipline and dedication- simply because our culture is already has a pretty big emphasis on dedication in service to the People- what with near universally being considered a dour and overly industrious folk by outsider.
I will say, Loyalty is getting more and more appealing to me and I think it is surprisingly manageable to us thanks to our cultural values, but I think it's easier to transition to that once we emphasise training and teaching our warriors more. The emphasis on training should further promote versatility and with that our warriors at large can gain a better understanding of how each role intermeshed and fits onto a battlefield. I think people insisting Quality is bad simply because it focuses mostly on making our doodz better is giving it too little credit. Keep in mind these are cultural values as opposed to purely militaristic values. And that means if we have a culture that encourages our warriors to be the best they can be, we'll probably develop a culture that emphasises being better warleaders/chiefs as well and that encourages military innovation in a big way. Establishing an ethos of always aspiring to do better, or at least making 'sufficient' harder to achieve would do a lot to enable other advances and cultural traits.
We're going to want some semblance of cultural values for all three of these aspects eventually. Quality to promote military professionalism, quantity to encourage a large and complex standing army, and loyalty to establish esprit de corps and loyalty to the state. I just think the introspection and direct pursuit of any available edge for quality makes achieving the others easier.
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DocMatoi
Theoretical Lover of Girls
- Location
- within 2 hours of the White House
- Pronouns
- They/Them
A society that strives toward perfection... hmmmm
- Location
- Australia
[X][Honour] Quality training
[X][Mystic] Wait
[X][Goal] Humiliate (Hard, +1 Prestige)
[X][Stallions] Focus efforts on the Thunder Speakers
I agree with veekie on waiting. We should do it when the war is done and we start studying stuff so that we can be reasonably sure it'll apply to Observance. We should also not choose the hardest option for war when the second-hardest is already "Hard" and this is our first non-nomad war in a literal age.
[X][Mystic] Wait
[X][Goal] Humiliate (Hard, +1 Prestige)
[X][Stallions] Focus efforts on the Thunder Speakers
I agree with veekie on waiting. We should do it when the war is done and we start studying stuff so that we can be reasonably sure it'll apply to Observance. We should also not choose the hardest option for war when the second-hardest is already "Hard" and this is our first non-nomad war in a literal age.
Why is this a con?
Since when has upgrading a social value ever resulted in a bad thing?
There's a reason why special forces are less than 1% of the military.
It's not a problem for us because we have a large population and can afford to send 3-1 against our opponents with the HK.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
There is all of that and I've had some thoughts of my own while planning.
Picking one of these war honour traits will spawn another T1 Honour trait. If Quality wins I see some kind of Excellence in Skill is Honourable, which starts focused on Warfare. However, this is a culture wide value which means in my head that it can apply to more civilian folks.
In addition to leveraging our already skilled crafters, and actually enshrining a form of competition that can drive innovation, take note of a general thread belief floating around. This belief being that the Ymaryn are more interested in re-creating their Paradise instead of waiting for it to return. Such an honour trait as I am describing sounds like it has much synergy with that myth.
- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
[X] [Honour] Loyalty
[X] [Goal] Humiliate (Hard, +1 Prestige)
[X] [Mystic] Wait
[X] [Stallions] Focus efforts on the Thunder Speakers
Huh, I missed a whole update. That's new.
[X] [Goal] Humiliate (Hard, +1 Prestige)
[X] [Mystic] Wait
[X] [Stallions] Focus efforts on the Thunder Speakers
Huh, I missed a whole update. That's new.
- Location
- USA
[X][Honour] Quality training
[X][Mystic] Wait
[X][Goal] Stop raids (Easiest, annoys allies)
[X][Stallions] Focus efforts on the nomads
I realized that I don't actually care if we annoy the HK. Trying to humiliate the TH is probably just going to lead to many turns of war for no real purpose due to them being an honour based society. I've also been convinced that we should Wait on Mystic - remember, we've gotten lots of good things out of letting our people wait and mull it over! And it seem very unlikely to me that we'll evolve Observance during a war. Let's quickly finish the war and then see what happens.
[X][Mystic] Wait
[X][Goal] Stop raids (Easiest, annoys allies)
[X][Stallions] Focus efforts on the nomads
I realized that I don't actually care if we annoy the HK. Trying to humiliate the TH is probably just going to lead to many turns of war for no real purpose due to them being an honour based society. I've also been convinced that we should Wait on Mystic - remember, we've gotten lots of good things out of letting our people wait and mull it over! And it seem very unlikely to me that we'll evolve Observance during a war. Let's quickly finish the war and then see what happens.
Sometimes when we evolve a social value the penalty gets harsher.
See "Symphony" and the fact we now require a casus belli to declare war.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
As promised, here's a better map
So we're bordering a lake. Kinda disappointing. BUT, it doesn't mean we can't have a canal megaproject to bridge it. Or better yet, a wagonway.