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Paths of Civilization

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[X] [Honour] Quality training
[X] [Mystic] Overturn superstition (-10 Mysticism, -1 Stability)
[X] [Goal] Degrade sphere of influence (Hardest, +1 Prestige, pleases allies)
[X] Focus efforts on the Thunder Speakers

I want that Metal Superstition gone, and I'm prepared to pay this to do that.
 
[X] [Honour] Quality training
[X] [Mystic] Evolve spiritual value (-7 Mysticism)
[X] [Goal] Humiliate (Hard, +1 Prestige)
[X] [Stallions] Split efforts between Thunder Speakers and nomads
 
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[X] [Honour] Loyalty
[X] [Mystic] Evolve spiritual value (-7 Mysticism)
[X] [Goal] Humiliate (Hard, +1 Prestige
[X] [Stallions] Split efforts between Thunder Speakers and nomads

Loyalty first, then quality training.
 
tryrar said:
Why temper the superstition when we can evolve a trait? It's probably going to be a while before we can evolve mystic traits again.
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I do not know why not remove it outright. We need metal, everyone does. Like, just one mine made every project cheaper, and we've colonised - *hint* *hint* - Redhills province. We have at least two iron deposits in our lands even before the survey, our terrain would benefit even more than usual from metalworking, and 'usual' means 'revolutionise everything', so...
 
@ people voting to overturn the superstition: We already know how to overturn it: Study Metal and do Stab gains to balance the loss. We don't know a solid way to evolve our spiritual trait. Plus, it's likely that our observance spiritual trait was the cause of the superstition, so we should get rid of this root problem before it causes yet another superstition.
 
[X] [Honour] Quality training
[X] [Mystic] Overturn superstition (-10 Mysticism, -1 Stability)
[X] [Goal] Degrade sphere of influence (Hardest, +1 Prestige, pleases allies)
[X] Focus efforts on the Thunder Speakers

Because we can afford the Nomads raiding some, but if we're going to decisively try and push the Thunder Speakers to the breaking point before the TH intervenes we need to go all in on breaking them.
 
[X] [Honour] Quality training
[X] [Mystic] Evolve spiritual value (-7 Mysticism)
[X] [Goal] Humiliate (Hard, +1 Prestige
[X] [Stallions] Split efforts between Thunder Speakers and nomads
 
ok, we have an issue. It seems using bolded tags is not playing nice with the tally program, so we need to strip out bold.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Umi-san on May 14, 2017 at 3:44 PM, finished with 33538 posts and 17 votes.
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[X] [Honour] Quality training
[X] [Mystic] Evolve spiritual value (-7 Mysticism)
[X] [Goal] Humiliate (Hard, +1 Prestige
[X] [Stallions] Split efforts between Thunder Speakers and nomads
 
You guys trying to degrade sphere of influence and for splitting our forces are really shooting yourselves in the foot.

You're basically making the most difficult war mission even harder.

Not a smart idea.
 
ctulhuslp said:
I do not know why not remove it outright. We need metal, everyone does. Like, just one mine made every project cheaper, and we've colonised - *hint* *hint* - Redhills province. We have at least two iron deposits in our lands even before the survey, our terrain would benefit even more than usual from metalworking, and 'usual' means 'revolutionise everything', so...
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I know, but I'd also like to prevent future cruft from popping up as well, and to do that we need to evolve the trait. Plus, we have a good idea on how to get rid of the superstition in any case.
 
[X] [Honour] Loyalty
[X] [Mystic] Evolve spiritual value (-7 Mysticism)

Loyalty is the obvious choice. The biggest danger of having a powerful military is some asshole using it against his own people to secure more power. This solves that issue and allows us to have a bigger army without worrying about a civil war caused by some guy thinking that the best way to ensure harmony is by making everyone follow him.

Evolve spiritual value because Observance needs to be evolved or else we're just gonna suffer for it again.
 
tryrar said:
............................So your line of logic is if we don't go with a loyalty trait, then our soldiers are automatically disloyal. Can you see the issue with your line of reasoning?
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I did not say that, but without loyalty the chance of traitors/dissenters/deserters is higher, rather not be responsible for the potential future creation of well trained bandit groups formed from deserting soldiers
 
Kiba said:
[X] [Honour] Quality training
[X] [Mystic] Evolve spiritual value (-7 Mysticism)
[X] [Goal] Humiliate (Hard, +1 Prestige
[X] [Stallions] Split efforts between Thunder Speakers and nomads
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[X] [Honour] Quality training
[X] [Mystic] Evolve spiritual value (-7 Mysticism)
[X] [Goal] Humiliate (Hard, +1 Prestige)
[X] [Stallions] Split efforts between Thunder Speakers and nomads

@Andres110 But who are they going to be loyal to? Each other? Their leader? "The Nation" as a whole?
If the lattermost, @veekie brought up a relevant point a long-ass time ago.
 
[X] [Honour] Quality training
[X] [Mystic] Evolve spiritual value (-7 Mysticism)
[X] [Goal] Humiliate (Hard, +1 Prestige)
[X] [Stallions] Split efforts between Thunder Speakers and nomads
 
tryrar said:
I know, but I'd also like to prevent future cruft from popping up as well, and to do that we need to evolve the trait. Plus, we have a good idea on how to get rid of the superstition in any case.
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We do not have a good idea, actually. AN's answer was basically 'you have to prove a negative', which is far from easy, and may (actually, probably will, at least -1 from Study) end up with us eating more Stability hits, if with less Mysticism hits.

And if we can evolve the value itself, sure, but the value evolved probably will be randomly chosen; and, given that we are in war, the Honourable Death is most likely to be evolved. Which is not all that useful. If we were at peace and doing a lot of Study actions, going for Evolve would make more sense.
 
As for why quality is in my opinion the best thing to shift towards;
  1. We're the most populated civilization in the region, we have manpower and logistics for days- going quality won't suddenly make us brittle as it might for a smaller civ
  2. We can already guarantee a degree of loyalty and morale with symphony, carrion eaters, and honorable death
  3. We have some of the best recon units and combat medics- the first means we need high quality forces to exploit, the second means we can mitigate attrition on our high quality units
  4. Pretty much every battle we'be been in and won basically amounts to 'their warriors were better but ours were more numerous and had better morale'- going quality helps address that fiery shortcoming and better capitalize on our numbers and morale.
 
tryrar said:
Why temper the superstition when we can evolve a trait? It's probably going to be a while before we can evolve mystic traits again.
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Umi-san said:
so we should get rid of this root problem before it causes yet another superstition.
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We aren't guaranteed that we're gonna evolve Observance, and we have minor evidence that its default evolution improves the bonus more than removes the downside (I'd have to go searching for it)

tryrar said:
ok, we have an issue. It seems using bolded tags is not playing nice with the tally program, so we need to strip out bold.
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Update your tally program, it was fixed 6 days ago :p
edit: derp, no it wasn't. My bad
 
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