Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
This is the path of civilization after all. So far our Civilization has stood the test of time... but there is a chance it won't forever
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Abby Normal
High Clerk of the Ymaryn
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I asked about that yesterday, we specifically don't know:
Edit: Had the wrong quote
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Oh, looking at this sequence I see that I misread Kiba as talking about our provinces, rather than other civs.
Oops.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
We might find out if we send trade missions regularly.
Then again, sailing mission is tempting as well.
Of course we could also set policy to trade for our provinces to do both of those, but there are other considerations too. This quest is a lot more in-depth than some of the civ games i played.
- Location
- Austria
We would not be ignoring them if they were not so...half-nomadic in everything. Like, they are actively gunning for the stuff which we do not want time and again - of course we'll snub them. It's not about them, it's about hereditary land ownership, patriarchy and other stuff which we took such pains to avoid - and have gotten good results out of doing so.
Like, this is the same as saying 'those guys totally have a valid concern because they are being ignored' while pointing at creationists or flat earthers. The only concerning thing is that those morons exist and have any say at anything at all, and them being ignored is entirely their fault because they are talking utter bullshit.
Stallions are not at the same tier of 'the fuck is wrong with you shut the fuck up you bag of nuts' as flat earthers, but the same principle - that they are being ignored because they deserve it for being morons, not because we are some sort of villains - applies.
Not every opinion deserves to be heard and catered to, some are just stupid and that's that. Stallions managed to consistently be A Voice Of Regressive Stupidity, which, considering all their heroes, is actually impressive...then again, Caesar was a hero and he fucked up Republic so that kinda happens.
Heroic stats make them good at achieving their goals, but do not give wisdom or perspective to choose said goals correctly.
Ghostdevil
The Devil of Ghosts
- Location
- United States
Uhoh
Iama preempt this potential derail and argument...
And say Neigh!
- Location
- Australia
[X] Magwyna (-1 Stability, other effects, [Poor Martial, Heroic Admin and Diplo])
[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
[X] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status.
[X] Random Admin tech upgrade
[X] New Trails (-1 Econ, +1 Diplo, +1 Centralization, other effects)
[X] Everyone can come on in! (-4 Stability, chance of further loss, +11-15 Econ, further effects, chance of over crowding, Upper Valleyhome attains True City status.
The reason we're snubbing their chief this turn is because he isn't a hero, and why would we settle for a decent all rounder, when we can have a heroine with two heroic stats that fit our civ really well? It's also very clearly stated in the update that he casts doubt on her abilities and accomplishments, constantly, because she is acting 'seductive' and using her womanly wiles to influence people. After all, to his thinking, how else could she have gotten to her position other than sleeping and seducing everyone? So, yeah, it seems pretty clear that it's because of her gender.
Anyway, we are picking New Trails to improve travel times and, hopefully, bring them a bit closer to us. More Boats would help too, and perhaps more settlements nearby. I also wonder if Enforce Law might be required at some point to stop some of their worse practises.
Looking through the history of ideas, I note that wagonways, the predecessor to the railway, is a concept that is at least 2,000 years old, first found in classical antiquity. The greeks have what they called the Diolkos, used to transport ships overland, constructed somewhere in the sixth or seventh century BC.
Railway are awesome in that it reduces friction, allowing animals, and eventually machines to pull really large load. I waaaannnnnnt it!
Railway are awesome in that it reduces friction, allowing animals, and eventually machines to pull really large load. I waaaannnnnnt it!
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- Location
- Third planet from the star named Sol
- Pronouns
- He/They
Hangwind, wasn't there a point like, two months ago where you weee arguing that the thread was taking unreasonable risks and our gambling was going to comeback and bite us in the ass?
- Location
- his hidden lair
Yeah, wagonways seem like something right up our alley. A short one to and from the canal in Valleyhome, maybe one centered on the Black River, and using them for our existing copper mine and any new major quarries/mines we set up sounds useful. Having crazy high-tech infrastructure is pretty much par for the course for Ymaryn.
- Location
- Hell
Really now
I doubt if we don't get stability now, the thread will try later...
Isn't this just you complaining about plans in general again?
- Location
- Austria
I mean...on one hand, I do want to address the actual problem, and Trails done by master mason are certainly good way to do so; but, like, going for +Stability in this thread is more exhausting that 10-hour work day.
I am still going for Trails, but that's because I want to go full Trails, redline our Centralisation with them, because she is our best bet to solving both 'Trails push our Centralisation' and 'We need all the trails' problems; alternatively, double Main Boats.
Besides, her going for Sac will probably annoy northerners...or not, but, like, who knows?
I think it's one of the benefits of our communal society. Sadly, it has come at some pretty steep cost of a lack of art, but I'm satisfied with what we've gotten.
Hmm, better river boats and boats would be appreciated. I wonder if we can evolve this concept into cable cars in general? Ah, well, fun speculation. Need to do more stuff like that in this thread at these times.
Oh, I do remember that there have been several instances of 'land ships'. That is, something like wagons using wind to move themselves. We'll likely need better wheels for that though.
At least we can be pretty sure aqueducts count as major engineering projects and so will get us art.
I meant art tech, really, but yes, we will still have art as a cultural value. It will just be built into our cities and infrastructure.
The hardest part is the conceptual leap. The Greek invented the concept of a wagonway, even to use it to stage plays(See PDF), but they did not made the leap to build a network of them for transportation.
I think the hardest part for our people would be the initial idea. Basically, if it can be turned towards infrastructure, we're likely to immediately realize it and desire to implement it. It's a defining characteristic of our civ.
Now the only question is, how can we convince our guys that putting ships on land or attaching sails to a cart is an interesting idea?
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Just to throw my stick in the communal spirit fire pit.
I like that we have infrastructure art. It will really stand the test of time if we do it well, and considering the obvious, we are certainly going to do it well.
On our general social problems, is it worth it to bitch at each other? I understand that these hit peoples hot buttons and they care about this stuff, because frankly it is worth caring about.
Just seems more productive to find compromises that make progress instead of shit slinging.
I'm concerned that a lot of the problem we currently have is not caused by the Marchers themselves, or the Ymaryn or the Lowlands or random dice fuckery like Weapons of the Gods, but it's caused because we don't have a certain solution, some single action we could take, that would fix it and it's pissing everyone the fuck off and we are taking it out on each other.
This is not true to me, and it is especially not harmonious and conducive to progress, because I think that what we have to work with are incremental solutions. They do not work well but they do cause improvement and create the field where we can make the much bigger conceptual steps.
For example electing Magwyna is a certainty at this point, and it is a gradual and actually rather large improvement for egalitarianism and equal opportunity, but people are starting to argue about it for what looks like the sake of argument and drawing up the Marcher hate argument into it to since it is connected. I'm concerned that a lot of the real anger behind these arguments is coming from the fact that she doesn't magically fix the problem, and it is being channeled through the image of the Marchers. I caution people to really give some thought for why they are angry.
I like that we have infrastructure art. It will really stand the test of time if we do it well, and considering the obvious, we are certainly going to do it well.
On our general social problems, is it worth it to bitch at each other? I understand that these hit peoples hot buttons and they care about this stuff, because frankly it is worth caring about.
Just seems more productive to find compromises that make progress instead of shit slinging.
I'm concerned that a lot of the problem we currently have is not caused by the Marchers themselves, or the Ymaryn or the Lowlands or random dice fuckery like Weapons of the Gods, but it's caused because we don't have a certain solution, some single action we could take, that would fix it and it's pissing everyone the fuck off and we are taking it out on each other.
This is not true to me, and it is especially not harmonious and conducive to progress, because I think that what we have to work with are incremental solutions. They do not work well but they do cause improvement and create the field where we can make the much bigger conceptual steps.
For example electing Magwyna is a certainty at this point, and it is a gradual and actually rather large improvement for egalitarianism and equal opportunity, but people are starting to argue about it for what looks like the sake of argument and drawing up the Marcher hate argument into it to since it is connected. I'm concerned that a lot of the real anger behind these arguments is coming from the fact that she doesn't magically fix the problem, and it is being channeled through the image of the Marchers. I caution people to really give some thought for why they are angry.
I'd be intreseted to see that. As evidenced by the Cholera Incident (*snerk* War, Death and Famine must have dug into him for years for that failing), we are actually rather good at conceptual leaps. I put it down to our culture of accepting people making our folks more accepting of their own internal strange ideas. To clairfy what I mean we certainly accept foreign ideas from the people we take in, but it doesn't seem that far to leap and say that our people also accept their own really strange ideas. You know those ideas you sometimes get when you get up to go to the fridge for a snak after watching late night sci-fi? Those really weird ideas that are half brilliance and half stupidity?
We need another weird person, a mini Gwygoytha who is strange in the tech idea department. Totally possible but a rather difficult to directly spawn. Electing Magwyna should help.
Build more ships, build more carts, improve a festival while the Progress policy is up or with some other association to make it about trying random stuff?
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- Location
- Hell
As ctulhuslp said, it's more about the difficulty in raising it.
I've heard more people talk about doing trails than raising stability.
I mean, I understand that it would be lower priority because Stability 1 is still a great result from any other decision we've made. I can even understand that it wouldn't have been next turn if we had other immediate problems or the trails wasn't sufficient.
But almost no word of attempting to raise stability?
No, I'd rather procure it when I can
Do you really want to redline with one stability though?
I've had this conversation. I was really against dropping our Centralization, since that's a critical stat for us. And I turned out right, because that decision ended up kicking off our first crisis with corruption.