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Paths of Civilization

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So, anyone else think we're going to get something special for getting our Stability so high? I mean we're already at "Optimistic".

Academia Nut said:
There's the story of the clusterfuck that resulted in the collapse of the original Thunder Horse, but its become so mythical that the People mostly tell it as allegory about humility. There is no cultural memory of the People fighting with the Dead Priests that hasn't be turned into a battle against generic demons/monsters.
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So much for the Thunder Horse seeing themselves as kin to the Stallion Tribes and having cultural memory of the People.
 
[X] Expand Carrion Eaters (-1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, many more Carrion Eaters, additional effects)
[X] Xohyssiri
 
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Umi-san said:
cus our people will go against literally every other trait they have and become serial killers
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Hmm...point there. We're still going to face a fair amount of redundancy. They have literally spent an entire generation teaching our people, so anything they have left to teach us - assuming there's anything at all, and that's unlikely - will be limited. Garden ultimately provides a stronger benefit.
 
Assuming we do Gardens this turn, next turn:
[Main] The Garden, kicked
[Main] New Province- Southshore
This gets us 2-4 more progress on the gardens (depending on province actions) and should virtually guarantee completion after the Symphony and Divine Stewards bonuses. This brings us to Stability 3, which is really nice. It gets us halfway to our next province action. Economy depends heavily on what happens, but we get +1 from the province and likely +2 from finishing The Gardens, so it should be almost cost-neutral. I don't think we'll have enough left to also do the Dam, but it's a possibility if we get lucky.

More Carrion Eaters is certainly nice, but they aren't dedicated healthcare professionals: They're shamans given permission to do dirty work that's spiritually unclean, and taught how to fight.
 
@Academia Nut, I noticed that Gwygoytha was absent from the Thunder Horse's mythology section. Is that because they've forgotten her or because she's a minor spirit, not a major spirit?
 
@Powerofmind Welp, guess we'll just see how building The Dam second works out.

Andres110 said:
Hmm...point there. We're still going to face a fair amount of redundancy. They have literally spent an entire generation teaching our people, so anything they have left to teach us - assuming there's anything at all, and that's unlikely - will be limited. Garden ultimately provides a stronger benefit.
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The Garden ultimately provides a stronger benefit solely because of the +1 stability. It furthermore risks being damaged and made less useful when The Dam is constructed, because The Dam is likely to alter the flow of the water. Building The Dam and The Garden at the same time will synergize because the reduced flow of water at that point in time will make building The Garden easier. In other words, it will alter where and how we build it. Plus, doing two megaprojects at the same time just sounds 9x cooler than "we get +1 Stability."

Meanwhile, having people knowledgeable both in our health approach and theirs going to their city and seeing how they use herbs etc. and maybe how their slaves us different herbs etc. is likely to give us a better understanding of alternate approaches to medicine and possibly samples of herbs new to us. And it wouldn't be appropriate to assume these people know everything there is to know in their body of work, though it's quite likely that they are foremost experts in the field.

tldr: potential additional tech gains, better trained health-givers v. +1 stability, aka 3 actions.
 
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[X] Begin work on the Garden (-1 Econ, +1 Stability, starts megaproject)
[X] Xohyssiri

As @Andres110 said, if we start the Garden now, we'll free up a main action slot for the Carrion Feeders anyways.

I'm not entirely comfortable about breaking the chain of Study Stars, as our Observance trait's con leads me to believe that we lack proper documentation of our observations and ends up with shaman's pursuing false methods because they remembered how to repeat a recent breakthrough incorrectly.

While getting opium is nice, it's not really urgent. Neither is influencing the HK, as their mega project will take lots of time (Order Above All is just an augmentation of restore order most likely, though it will probably give stability after completing the law mega project). I don't think we've ever decided on befriending the HK in the end, just to side with the TH and crush the HK when they inevitably get too big.

Why should we care to influence their laws? Sure, it'll make them like us more and share a common legal stance, but we were going to side with the TH and crush them before (has that changed?). Also, it could be argued that giving them a free megaproject (or most of one) is giving too much of an edge to them. The HK have come out of the recent 3 way war quite well after all.

We currently have a limited opening for trade with the DP (not to mention the time limit on the lives of their medical priests). Our medical generosity is still fresh in their minds (it's only been a mini turn since they came after all) and we still have their priests (which witnessed our awesome mega project skills)...I think we have lots of synergy here. If anything, this will likely trigger their Eye for an Eye knock-off trait hard again and force them to give us lots of stuff (or tech, that's nice too).
 
[X] Expand Carrion Eaters (-1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, many more Carrion Eaters, additional effects)
[X] Xohyssiri
 
[X] Expand Carrion Eaters (-1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, many more Carrion Eaters, additional effects)
[X] Xohyssiri
 
[X] Highland Kingdom
[X] Expand Carrion Eaters (-1 Econ, -1 Mysticism, +1 Martial, many more Carrion Eaters, additional effects
 
BlueFlamingWings said:
So much for the Thunder Horse seeing themselves as kin to the Stallion Tribes and having cultural memory of the People.
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They maintain marriage ties with some of the tribes that also have marriage ties with the Stallion Tribes.

Andres110 said:
I noticed that Gwygoytha was absent from the Thunder Horse's mythology section. Is that because they've forgotten her or because she's a minor spirit, not a major spirit?
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That demon has been folded into the churn of several other beings at this point.
 
hylas240 said:
Why should we care to influence their laws? Sure, it'll make them like us more and share a common legal stance, but we were going to side with the TH and crush them before (has that changed?). Also, it could be argued that giving them a free megaproject (or most of one) is giving too much of an edge to them. The HK have come out of the recent 3 way war quite well after all.
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Actually, we decided to stay neutral rather than risk a war. We might just keep doing that. Why should we go to war for anybody?

Academia Nut said:
They maintain marriage ties with some of the tribes that also have marriage ties with the Stallion Tribes.
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I wonder if we build enough ties we might be able to call on the Thunder Horse to rain hell on any nomads who dared to raid us.
 
[X] Xohyssiri
[X] Begin work on the Garden (-1 Econ, +1 Stability, starts megaproject)

Free stability!
 
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@Academia Nut Where exactly do the People plan to construct the Great Dam, by the way? I'd gotten it into my head that it was supposed to be in/near the badlands, in order to help make the badlands less dry and inhospitable, but i realized i'm not really sure on that front, or exactly what beyond "control the flood waters more" the people plan to do with it; i'd been under the impression that dams usually made lakes, but googling suggests that that impression was wrong?
 
hylas240 said:
[X] Begin work on the Garden (-1 Econ, +1 Stability, starts megaproject)
[X] Xohyssiri

As @Andres110 said, if we start the Garden now, we'll free up a main action slot for the Carrion Feeders anyways.

I'm not entirely comfortable about breaking the chain of Study Stars, as our Observance trait's con leads me to believe that we lack proper documentation of our observations and ends up with shaman's pursuing false methods because they remembered how to repeat a recent breakthrough incorrectly.

While getting opium is nice, it's not really urgent. Neither is influencing the HK, as their mega project will take lots of time (Order Above All is just an augmentation of restore order most likely, though it will probably give stability after completing the law mega project). I don't think we've ever decided on befriending the HK in the end, just to side with the TH and crush the HK when they inevitably get too big.

Why should we care to influence their laws? Sure, it'll make them like us more and share a common legal stance, but we were going to side with the TH and crush them before (has that changed?). Also, it could be argued that giving them a free megaproject (or most of one) is giving too much of an edge to them. The HK have come out of the recent 3 way war quite well after all.

We currently have a limited opening for trade with the DP (not to mention the time limit on the lives of their medical priests). Our medical generosity is still fresh in their minds (it's only been a mini turn since they came after all) and we still have their priests (which witnessed our awesome mega project skills)...I think we have lots of synergy here. If anything, this will likely trigger their Eye for an Eye knock-off trait hard again and force them to give us lots of stuff (or tech, that's nice too).
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We could also start the Dam next turn and have them both going for extra bullshit.
 
[X] Highland Kingdom
[X] Begin work on the Garden (-1 Econ, +1 Stability, starts megaproject)

Free stability, you say...?

I rethought things on the Dead Priests, I agree that our relationship would ironically probably be better if we kept them at a distance so all the horrible things they still do and their skull wall are just stories. I do want an in on that new plant still, which mandates Highland Kingdom.
 
[X] Highland Kingdom
[X] Begin work on the Garden (-1 Econ, +1 Stability, starts megaproject)

+synergy!

Yes fall before the might of our poppy fields. We shall drown the world with drugs and salt! Muhahahahaha!
 
BungieONI said:
We could also start the Dam next turn and have them both going for extra bullshit.
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Too risky. If we do that neither is guaranteed to finish next turn (we don't know which the provinces will work on). The turn after that, all of our actions will be locked and we'll be running out of econ so we won't get any support from our provinces. If someone attacks us at that time we wouldn't have any way to respond.
 
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