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Paths of Civilization

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My gut is telling me...
[] Suppress the Young Stallion movement (-1 Stability, +1 Turns to resolve crisis, small chance of civil war)
Some thing needs to be done this gives us time and hopefully won't backfire
[] We will find land for you to settle (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)
It's what we do. Other is just as bad
[] Stop trading with both (-4 Diplomacy)
Tough but we can take it may be necessary. we need time to sort out our own problems

[X] Snub him (Small chance of -1 Stability)
[X] Stop trading with both (-4 Diplomacy)
[X] We will find land for you to settle (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)
 
VoidZero said:
We have in the past and present sent war parties to DP and ST areas for war. So saying the March can't send troops down to our area is strange.
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The march is too far from us to bother having their leader visit us easily on a daily basis. What makes you think we can easily afford the logistical challenge of moving our army that distance?

The march's job is to fight nomads. He will stay in the north and make a province that can fight nomads, not fight our wars that are incredibly far from his terrain.
 
Sigh, fine. Let's just keep letting him suck away our power into his burgeoning hereditary kingdom to our immediate north. Lol.

[X] Snub him (Small chance of -1 Stability)
[X] Stop trading with the Highlanders (-3 Diplomacy, small chance of the Highlanders declaring war)
[X] We will find land for you to settle (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)
 
Stats:
General
Diplomacy 9
Economy 3 (+1)
Martial 8

Stability
Stability 1 (confident)
Legitimacy 3 (max)

Organizational
Centralization 5
Hierarchy 6

Cultural
Art 3
Mysticism 2
Prestige 4
 
[X] Elect Cwriid heir (+1 Stability, Crisis Ends on his terms)
[X] Stop trading with the Highland Kingdom
[X] We will find land for you to settle (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)

For better or worse the Thunder Horse is now our kin.
 
tryrar said:
Ok, the old system had it's issues and that's why we voted to do tax reform. Saying it was fine is a bald-faced lie
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The new system has even more issues, enough that backing off to the old one is probably a decent choice right now. So we'll have to wait four or five more turns for a tax reform, big deal. We'll get codified law out of the deal and that'll actually correct a number of the old system's biggest issues.

Problem with perishable foodstuffs? Laws put in place to ensure they don't get wasted foolishly sending them away to central granaries.
Problem with luxury assignments? Laws put in place to dictate the level of fanciness a pot can have without being declared decorative.
Problem with corrupt land assignments? Eh... We can't get everything perfect, hopefully Cwriid is for communal hereditary.

[X] Elect Cwriid heir (+1 Stability, Crisis Ends on his terms)
[X] Stop trading with both (-4 Diplomacy)
[X] We will find land for you to settle (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)
 
[X] Snub him (Small chance of -1 Stability)
[X] Keep trading with both (Large chance of one of the two declaring war, tiny chance of both declaring war)
[X] We will find land for you to settle (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)

You know what, I don't think one of them declaring war on us is an all together terrible thing. I'd prefer it if they didn't but if they did, we have a martial of 8, a march with even more martial north of us, and a military hero who notably has our social traits so traits like harmony/protective justice/honorable death will trigger thus ideally nullifying the internal threat to our polity. Those traits don't mix at all well with him launching a civil conflict if we've just had an offensive war declared against us for which we did nothing wrong, and if for some strange reason he did a great deal of his support will go poof. And if we aren't attacked by either then we'd have asserted ourselves as neutral traders which is beneficial.

I've chosen snub as I don't want familial inheritance, there is only a small chance of negative stability, and there's a good chance we can distract him and get some use out of a martial hero if we're attacked.

The final option is accepting the stability loss for economic gain. And that pains me, because mechanically it's a shit option due to use needing to spend a similar amount of economy to regain that stability and also use up one of our actions. Hopefully given it's from a people we haven't intergrated before @Academia Nut has them bring new ideas or technologies, or has us proc the merge between greater good and land of opportunity.
 
Seriously, I'm confused here. Stopping trade with Highland Kingdom is clearly winning the votes but I don't see any reason why we'd want to do that. It's most likely going to give us +1 diplomacy (from 5 to 6) but in exchange we get a noticeable chance of failing the crisis.

I'm not even seeing anyone giving reasoning behind that choice aside from a single "I prefer the TH". Why are people choosing it?
 
bluefur87 said:
The march is too far from us to bother having their leader visit us easily on a daily basis. What makes you think we can easily afford the logistical challenge of moving our army that distance?

The march's job is to fight nomads. He will stay in the north and make a province that can fight nomads, not fight our wars that are incredibly far from his terrain.
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They will when their leader is the king. Also, suggesting people wouldn't send troops because of distance is disregarding what we did to fight against the nomads.
 
bluefur87 said:
Which, due to the war, we are all but guaranteed to happen next turn.
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Unlikely. The Highland Kingdoms are almost as defensively minded as we are, and the TH are the aggressors. LoO only triggers when there are a lot of refugees looking to come in, which will take a couple of turns-either for the Highlanders to start seriously losing, or for the Th to get counter-raided. Remember, in the last war it took generations before we had any real refugees, and that was with human sacrificers! Here's my plan for the next couple turns:

[Kick] Law
[Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
[Secondary] War??? (Something else, probably Trails)

[Main] Grand Sacrifice? (Probable, but we might get a Stability increase from finishing Law. At +1, may be something else)
[Secondary] Trails? (If we did this last turn, something else entirely)
[Secondary] War
 
Umi-san said:
Sigh, fine. Let's just keep letting him suck away our power into his burgeoning hereditary kingdom to our immediate north. Lol.

[X] Snub him (Small chance of -1 Stability)
[X] Stop trading with the Highlanders (-3 Diplomacy, small chance of the Highlanders declaring war)
[X] We will find land for you to settle (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)
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I agree with you.

I would prefer to suppress the Stallions.
This said, we really cannot afford a civil war, and I do not want to risk it.
 
Powerofmind said:
The new system has even more issues, enough that backing off to the old one is probably a decent choice right now. So we'll have to wait four or five more turns for a tax reform, big deal. We'll get codified law out of the deal and that'll actually correct a number of the old system's biggest issues.

Problem with perishable foodstuffs? Laws put in place to ensure they don't get wasted foolishly sending them away to central granaries.
Problem with luxury assignments? Laws put in place to dictate the level of fanciness a pot can have without being declared decorative.
Problem with corrupt land assignments? Eh... We can't get everything perfect, hopefully Cwriid is for communal hereditary.

[X] Elect Cwriid heir (+1 Stability, Crisis Ends on his terms)
[X] Stop trading with both (-4 Diplomacy)
[X] We will find land for you to settle (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)
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Ok, but we'll have even more issues with hereditary nobles, plus the fact they can do whatever with the land and we can't tell them otherwise, which destroys our farming practices as we currently do them. Which is bad
 
Hangwind said:
Unlikely. The Highland Kingdoms are almost as defensively minded as we are, and the TH are the aggressors. LoO only triggers when there are a lot of refugees looking to come in, which will take a couple of turns-either for the Highlanders to start seriously losing, or for the Th to get counter-raided. Remember, in the last war it took generations before we had any real refugees, and that was with human sacrificers! Here's my plan for the next couple turns:

[Kick] Law
[Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
[Secondary] War??? (Something else, probably Trails)

[Main] Grand Sacrifice? (Probable, but we might get a Stability increase from finishing Law. At +1, may be something else)
[Secondary] Trails? (If we did this last turn, something else entirely)
[Secondary] War
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We can't do trails, we're at the point where we're getting close to being over-centralized.
 
[X] Snub him (Small chance of -1 Stability)
[X] Stop trading with both (-4 Diplomacy)
[X] We will find land for you to settle (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)

Meh. Still need to figure out more info if Law fixes both communication and literacy or one will still need help. I'm a little afraid it might now because there's basically one action free 2 turns from now to deal with it if they do, if it's even available if the nomads start shit again.

Don't risk war at all for the sake of 1 Diplo, no idea why people are voting for that.
 
[X] Snub him (Small chance of -1 Stability)
[X] Stop trading with both (-4 Diplomacy)
[X] We will find land for you to settle (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)
 
tryrar said:
Ok, but we'll have even more issues with hereditary nobles, plus the fact they can do whatever with the land and we can't tell them otherwise, which destroys our farming practices as we currently do them. Which is bad
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Still waiting on the call from AN, but hopefully Cwriid's proposed adjustment isn't private, but communal hereditary ownership. There's a number of ways that can be viewed, but generally, it means that while your family may own the land, you can't do whatever you want with it, can't gain more land through inheritance, and/or can't accrue much wealth-as-foodstuffs before the commune declares you're being overly greedy and disharmonious.
 
Hangwind said:
Unlikely. The Highland Kingdoms are almost as defensively minded as we are, and the TH are the aggressors. LoO only triggers when there are a lot of refugees looking to come in, which will take a couple of turns-either for the Highlanders to start seriously losing, or for the Th to get counter-raided. Remember, in the last war it took generations before we had any real refugees, and that was with human sacrificers! Here's my plan for the next couple turns:

[Kick] Law
[Secondary] Establish Annual Festival
[Secondary] War??? (Something else, probably Trails)

[Main] Grand Sacrifice? (Probable, but we might get a Stability increase from finishing Law. At +1, may be something else)
[Secondary] Trails? (If we did this last turn, something else entirely)
[Secondary] War
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Well for starters, we're at centralization yellow, so trails is a horrible idea.

And unlikely is not a garunteed no. We can be safe here. We can not poke a our military neighbor when we don't have to, because a small chance is still a chance. All it costs is a single point in diplomacy that we can build back up.

I would really prefer to survive this crises.
 
[X] Snub him (Small chance of -1 Stability)
[X] Stop trading with both (-4 Diplomacy)
[X] We will find land for you to settle (-1 Stability, +2 Econ)

Not crazy about losing that stability from the land settlement, but the alternative is worse. Grand Sacrifice giving us extra time and stability 1 being enough to pass the crisis makes me feel a lot better about this. Also, a bright point is we now have enough Economy and Mysticism to kick 'The Law' next turn without going into negatives.

bluefur87 said:
One generation is passing during this turn.

We have one generation left. The war will not last a single generation and we will still have the crises going on.

We can not afford war right now. Period.
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Apparently you missed it during this update, but 'Grand Sacrifice' extended the clock a turn. So we have two generations before the clock runs out on the current economic crisis.
 
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tryrar said:
NOT THE POINT. The point is he's simply too far away to move an army towards the conflict zone
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That's exactly the point. The March can sends troops to defend Our Northern provinces, then the northern provinces send their troop to join the southern provinces if there is a war.

EDIT: most trade options have risk of war, so getting the martial hero is safe in that regard.
 
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VoidZero said:
That's exactly the point. The March can sends troops to defend Our Northern provinces, then the northern provinces send their troop to join the southern provinces if ther is a war.
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That's not how that works. He already protects the northern provinces by existing, so they already would send troops south.
 
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