- Location
- Yes.
Also, made some changes to my plan yesterday. Posting it here now.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's the former. The Mantle improves his e.g. Water Whip.
He is (not physically, but effectively) tethered to the Mantle. Moving with it on is like dragging a giant anchor. He cannot run without first dropping the technique, but he can do that in less than a second with just an effort of will.
- Location
- Yes.
So what happens when he does? Does the technique instantly dissolve into non-matter like all other chakra-created water? Does it lose its shape and collapse into water, and later turn into non-matter?
What about absorbing the chakra used to form the technique? IIRC he figured how to do that with Water Clones: can he drop the technique, absorb the chakra, and then use said chakra to form another Mantle in his new position (or form clones, or a Water Whip...)?
- Location
- Europe
Let me stab this plan too a few times and see how it bleeds.
As a general note this plan doesn't feel very active. It basically lists some passive things we should do with the team but I have hard time imagining what's the main thing we are trying achieve with it.
I like this. Nothing says calm down and act reasonably like HUGE, UNDERLINED CAPITAL LETTERS!
I think you would be better off with a three way split here (with few examples):
If anyone else than Mari tries this, we will be spotted and our cover will be blown.
This smells like a Deception roll, meaning if Hazou tries it we will fail. Especially with a level 1 clone.
I advice agaist butting in there with an actual suggestion. Just ask Noburi what would be the best way to butter up to Hashimoto and if Hazou could help with that.
Same thing as in last point.
All of those things are something that either need to be decided as a team (lab building), or come part and parcel with our teacher-student relationship with Kagome anyway.
"Stop embarrassing our sensei by being a complete failure."
Not sure about how helpful that would be.
These smell like stuff for training plans. Or if not, we should pick one above the other, I don't see Hazou having the time to train multiple things.
As a general note this plan doesn't feel very active. It basically lists some passive things we should do with the team but I have hard time imagining what's the main thing we are trying achieve with it.
I like this. Nothing says calm down and act reasonably like HUGE, UNDERLINED CAPITAL LETTERS!
I think you would be better off with a three way split here (with few examples):
- OPSEC mistakes
- Shouting bloodline secrets in a library, letting a drug trafficker figure us out etc.
- Social mistakes
- Mouthing off to Jiraya etc.
- How were we manipulated socially
- Kabuto manipulating us in the first and last meeting
- Jiraya having us socialize with our peers to make "friends" (social ties for further control)
- In the end, Hazou vowed to make it back to Leaf to Akane, like the benefits of Leaf were the end goal and not just another way for Jiraya to exert control over us
- Meaning Hazou took what was fed to him hook, line, and sinker
If anyone else than Mari tries this, we will be spotted and our cover will be blown.
This smells like a Deception roll, meaning if Hazou tries it we will fail. Especially with a level 1 clone.
I advice agaist butting in there with an actual suggestion. Just ask Noburi what would be the best way to butter up to Hashimoto and if Hazou could help with that.
Same thing as in last point.
All of those things are something that either need to be decided as a team (lab building), or come part and parcel with our teacher-student relationship with Kagome anyway.
"Stop embarrassing our sensei by being a complete failure."
Not sure about how helpful that would be.
These smell like stuff for training plans. Or if not, we should pick one above the other, I don't see Hazou having the time to train multiple things.
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Let's see, how much XP do we need for our jonin specialisations of 50 dice in Deception and Sealing?
Current stats:
Okay, Sealing first...
Int (sum 14 to 50)*2 [2368]
Wit (sum 6 to 17)*2 [276]
Sealing (sum 14 to 50) [1184]
Total cost... [3828]
Jashin christ. That was even worse than I was expecting.
Okay, now for Deception.
Man (sum 8 to 25)*2 [594]
Pre (sum 6 to 17)*2 [276]
Com (sum 6 to 17)*2 [276]
Deception (sum 15 to 50) [1170]
Total cost... [2316]
That's... still really expensive.
And all together... 3828+2316=6144.
Reminder that Hazou's current XP total is 1448.
Current stats:
- Int 13
- Wit 5
- Pre 5
- Man 7
- Com 5
- Sealing 13 (Int*1, Wit*3)
- Deception 14 (Man*2, Pre*3, Com*3)
Okay, Sealing first...
Int (sum 14 to 50)*2 [2368]
Wit (sum 6 to 17)*2 [276]
Sealing (sum 14 to 50) [1184]
Total cost... [3828]
Jashin christ. That was even worse than I was expecting.
Okay, now for Deception.
Man (sum 8 to 25)*2 [594]
Pre (sum 6 to 17)*2 [276]
Com (sum 6 to 17)*2 [276]
Deception (sum 15 to 50) [1170]
Total cost... [2316]
That's... still really expensive.
And all together... 3828+2316=6144.
Reminder that Hazou's current XP total is 1448.
- Location
- Yes.
Changed some stuff, thanks @Twofold. If you're wondering, the point of the plan is to mend relations with the team while we (the hivemind) play catch-up after the Rebalancing. I was worried about adding more because TBH I'm not sure what the hivemind wants beyond "train, survive, fix our fuckup".
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
What has been imagined cannot be un-imagined.
- Location
- Yes.
It's not that surprising if you realize that we've gotten that in a year of in-game survival. Over 5 years (Chunin) we'd expect to get over 7000XP, and getting Jonin would take even longer.
So really, it's to be expected.
- Location
- Europe
I see. I guess the alternative way to get some breathing room would be a Lore Update. Personally I like the idea of a slowly paced plan better.
But if that is the case, you should be aware that contacting Hashimoto has a non-negligible chance to kick a hornets nets and force us to be active (running away or negotiating with Yakuza, getting killed by Zabuza, getting captured by Orochimaru etc.)
Honestly, trying to get Nobby some med training is directly in competition with our need to stay quiet and hidden. Especially now since we can't just hop borders to get somewhere else if things get hot.
I wouldn't call these mistakes as much as us getting played by superior opponents we have no chance against in the first place due to them having the metaphorical higher ground or just being way, way better than us.
The goal of that introspection would be to blunt the effect of their manipulation at least inside our own head. For an in-game example, think how Arikada kicked Mari's manipulation once she cooled down and thought about it for a moment.
Some additional ones would be:
- Sarutobi giving the impression of a warm and kindly grandfather when we met him
- Nara seeming like he was actually interested in us and our thoughts
- Ino flirting with us
- Lee "flirting" with us and seeming less intelligent than he actually is
- Jutsu trainer controlling us by making us afraid of her weird persona
That's true.
But this is just our primary skills, not even taking combat into account. If we want to get Roki 25 then that's another 297 XP. If we want to up our Taijutsu to 40 then that's about a thousand more.
And taking secondary skills, like Stealth, TacMove, Awareness, Diplomacy, and Doton Ninjutsu into account on top of that is still necessary, even if we just bring them up to 20-30.
- Location
- Europe
Well, the good thing about the raised XP caps is that we have room to redesign Hazou up almost from scratch.
For example, we could just forget Taijutsu and pursue Weapons that would sync way better with Sealing. (Some people argued this early on in the quest.) I see no reason why Roki would work with punching but not with stabbing. (Not that it would actually matter, it's not like we're going to be winning fights any time soon.)
Alternatively we could forget about combat and social stats and just go deep into Stealth.
Not that we would reach actual competency in any of these any time soon. The best chance we have is to just go deep into Sealing and hope we come up with stuff that makes rolling for skills irrelevant.
For example, we could just forget Taijutsu and pursue Weapons that would sync way better with Sealing. (Some people argued this early on in the quest.) I see no reason why Roki would work with punching but not with stabbing. (Not that it would actually matter, it's not like we're going to be winning fights any time soon.)
Alternatively we could forget about combat and social stats and just go deep into Stealth.
Not that we would reach actual competency in any of these any time soon. The best chance we have is to just go deep into Sealing and hope we come up with stuff that makes rolling for skills irrelevant.
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I don't think we'll be able to make dice rolling irrelevant, but it may be possible for us to up our dices in a significant way?
- Location
- Europe
I suppose halfway success is better than no success.
Just remember that researching seals will take months on months, assuming we even can research the ones we got from J with our current skill level.
I doubt the QMs will screw us over with that.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
Why? The point of the rebalancing is that we were stronger in every field than we ought to have been. So, they've made us weaker. This extends to things like Sealing as well. Thus, it makes sense that we should be unable to do original seal research, and following someone else's research should be just about the limits of our ability, though I will be unsurprised if it is beyond our current ability.
- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
Have a vote count while I work on a big response post! Voting is open for roughly 20 more hours!
CounterBot, version 1.5
Plan name: At Last, Free Time!
Voters: @Kiba, @MMKII
Num votes: 2
Plan name: Training Hazou: Seals
Voters: @MadScientist, @Radvic
Num votes: 2
Plan name: Training Hazou: Stealthy Sealing
Voters: @1234qwerty, @MadScientist
Num votes: 2
Plan name: Hazo's Very Thorough Debriefing
Voters: @Dissonance
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Look before you leap
Voters: @Veedrac
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Lore Update?
Voters: @Dissonance
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Not Actually Free Time
Voters: @faflec
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Training Hazou: Iron Training
Voters: @faflec
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Training Keiko: Iron Training
Voters: @faflec
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Training Noburi: Barrel-Protection
Voters: @Radvic
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Training Noburi: Iron Training
Voters: @faflec
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Your Humble Seal-Master and Eyes
Voters: @Radvic
Num votes: 1
Number of voters: 8
CounterBot, version 1.5
Plan name: At Last, Free Time!
Voters: @Kiba, @MMKII
Num votes: 2
Plan name: Training Hazou: Seals
Voters: @MadScientist, @Radvic
Num votes: 2
Plan name: Training Hazou: Stealthy Sealing
Voters: @1234qwerty, @MadScientist
Num votes: 2
Plan name: Hazo's Very Thorough Debriefing
Voters: @Dissonance
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Look before you leap
Voters: @Veedrac
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Lore Update?
Voters: @Dissonance
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Not Actually Free Time
Voters: @faflec
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Training Hazou: Iron Training
Voters: @faflec
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Training Keiko: Iron Training
Voters: @faflec
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Training Noburi: Barrel-Protection
Voters: @Radvic
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Training Noburi: Iron Training
Voters: @faflec
Num votes: 1
Plan name: Your Humble Seal-Master and Eyes
Voters: @Radvic
Num votes: 1
Number of voters: 8
The seals Jiraiya gave to us would have been nerfed.
The alarm seal, for example, was so basic that it didn't even have a name.
- Location
- Yes.
This is true, but given what we've done already (fucked up Noburi's chances of getting training from Kabuto) I can't see denying him the opportunity to train going down well. At all.
And now I really wish I'd written out an Action Plan that has us going to Tea. Oh well.
Noted, and edited.
Nerfed in the absolute sense or in the relative sense? That is, has their functionality been altered, or are there now other seals in wide use that are a lot more impressive?
I wonder if the seals that we gave and/or sold to Jiraiya were altered as well? If so, how? Do we get to sell them twice now?
[X] Lore Update
We don't even know what the new threshold for self-teaching is.
@eaglejarl, @Velorien, @OliWhail: Another idea/case:
6. Flat Earth Atheism. Somehow, through means unknown in-universe, the team did, in fact, progress as quickly as it had for the past year, and then stopped progressing quite as quickly. For some reason, no one finds this odd, perhaps influenced by the same mysterious force as the one that had caused them to progress so quickly and then slowed their progress from this point on. Similarly, their expectations had been adjusted by this same force.
More seriously, there is, as far as I know, no practical way [1] to reconcile our new ability levels with our past actions: the team could not have beaten Jotaro or Arikada, and would not have tried; nor could Hazou have invented new seals. This means that the past is going to be inconsistent with the present in any case, and NPCs memories and expectations would have to be adjusted in a manner inconsistent with the past as well. For example, Jiraiya would have memories of our capturing Arikada while knowing that sending us against someone like Arikada is a guaranteed TPK.
Overall, I think that an author fiat that no one in-universe notices the speed of our progress as extraordinary, but does not expect it to continue, does overall less violence to the rationality of the setting --- as well as making the quest just plain more fun --- than the current solution.
[1] Edit: Yes, technically, Hazou could have been delusional throughout the quest.
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Twenty minutes did not get as far as I hope. I am still copying @faflec 's ideas.
Will do another update to get it up to quality.
Will do another update to get it up to quality.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
Also, as discussed in Discord, option 7.
7. Hazou is actually delusional. Hazou has exagerated everything he's seen. The ninja with Jotaro was actually a genin. Kagome made PMYF and Misterators then shared the design with Hazou (who then claimed it himself). Noburi's mist draining is a well known clan ability. The pangolins are actually incredibly weak. Inoue has hard-carried the team through every engagement, with her clones doing what Hazou thought he was doing. We've just been reading an unreliable narrator who was shaken out of their disillusionment in Leaf and now is aware of their own ineptitude.
Rather horrible asspull, by the way.
- Location
- Phoenix, AZ
Well, yes. But I'm reasonably confident any attempt to justify our past actions with current power levels is going to be an asspull.
Edit: because I want more time to stew on TGR before committing to actions:
[X] Lore Update
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Yeah, but most of them aren't both an asspull and a big f%@#-you to the players.
I don't see why our plans as we have right now is going to put us in danger.
If Noburi still insists on going to Yuni and Mari let him, we can't prevent him from doing what we want. All we can do is help him.