Yo, this quest seems pretty cool.

Keeping in mind that I've skipped all but Index Posts, how viable would it be to learn disguise as a skill? As in, using makeup to change how Hazuo looks.

Because if he copies mannerisms well enough be could be a dab hand at infiltration.

If nothing else, he could use it with his gambling to make some money without being recognized.

Welcome! This (getting a disguise skill) seems like a good idea (to me at least), and I believe it has been alluded that such a thing would be allowed, though I have lost track of the specific post saying so. Regardless, I suspect the QMs would go for it, though we'd want confirmation from them. When we go to the town next mission, it's probably worth getting one point in it (if it's viable, and if the XP we net in the swamp is enough to cover other defensive problems, and if we have training in between).

It's probably not worth attempting to formulate an independent plan using this and then go to town at this point - we'll be headed there soon enough anyways (the teams rotate if I remember correctly). At the moment we're in the midst of a tense vote. I'm in the process of writing up pros and cons to the various plans (none of them are my own, so hopefully I have minimal bias). Hopefully you can read that and make an educated vote :)
 
I've edited [X] Plan Red Team to include water-walking + water condensation, and changed Undersea Guardian to Water Whip, assuming that Water Whip attacks as a chakra-controlled construct with its Technique Rank rather than a muscle-controlled one with Taijutsu (which would be awful). Earth Affinity is included as well. I really hope we are able to either bud off advanced Techniques from basic ones, or that basic ones become advanced upon sufficient leveling (that was my initial impression, though it seems to have been misguided). Please adjust votes accordingly, if relevant.

So how about something more like, it's hard for her to get started, and once she gets started it's hard to stop? Switching modes is very difficult on her own, and planning isn't the most fun. @AugSphere something like that?

Well, she is able to switch between a variety of actions when making all the adjustments to make plans not-suck. Really, the "lost initiative" thing is intended to be a much lighter penalty than Nara laziness, since Mori's gifts are nowhere close to Shikamaru's in general action. Its primary function is just to ensure that Mori doesn't take over the game with her Thinker power.
 
Last edited:
Planning is one cognitive mode.

Yes, but executing the adjusted plan may require 1) speaking, 2) physical attacks, 3) running away like crazy, 4) spontaneous interpretive dance, etc - that she does on her own prompting, since our other characters don't have the Thinker power that gives her the timing for her actions. We could say "executing" is also one mode, but then things get really vague.

I think simply saying "she can think complex thoughts and chains of contingency, but does not initiate original plans beyond a certain complexity, relying instead on limited modifying of teammates' plans," is probably sufficient and we can leave the specifics up to GM ruling, just as virtually all the powers of the bloodline are up to GM ruling.
 
Last edited:
@Rihaku, the chakra draining ability is a technique that needs to have levels put into it. In addition, I don't think we really need the extra 30 points of chakra yet, that cripples his skills that might be needed to survive the swamp. Baseline Stealth? No Tactical Movement?
 
Last edited:
@Rihaku, the chakra draining ability is a technique that needs to have levels put into it. In addition, I don't think we really need the extra 30 points of chakra, that cripples his skills.

Link me to where it says that? I may have missed it. Are you sure you're not talking about the other unrelated water Bloodline?

To what degree do the chakra draining and other aspects scale with levels? It may not be worth more than level 1, depending.

Having 90 vs 120 Chakra is actually a pretty big deal, since he is acting as a chakra tank not just for himself, but for us and Keiko. I would prefer to shave off 3 Skill Points and just take Tai or Wep 4, and adjust other Skills around, rather than go to 90. 30 Chakra is 6 dice worth of bonus...
 
Oh, I will note - the reason I went with "lacking initiative" instead of the easier-shoehorned "crippling social weakness" fluff for Frozen Skein is because I didn't want to reduce our teammate to a "shy genius moeblob" stereotype, as is often overplayed. A character with Frozen Skein's default fluff can be confident, outgoing, spontaneous, and fun - just incredibly living-in-the-moment to the point where it's pathological, until her teammates come up with a plan she can adopt or critique. Under the original fluff they can also still be a shy genius moeblob if people want to go that direction, it's just not something they're locked into.

Point indeed on isolated genius being overplayed, it was simply the most obvious substitutionary weakness... I actually like the 'highly intellectual ping-pong ball' idea. Not being self-motivated just struck me as... inhuman. I mean, some people are far more driven by others than by themselves, but usually that is driven by need for acceptance. Having a character actually unable to form their own goals and decide to aim for them... well, that's creating an NPC at a really meta level.

Besides, I trust these QMs to take 'socially stunted' and not produce a moeblob.
 
Here you go, that water-drain bloodline I said we'd look over.

Vampire Dew

Attributes: Control * 3, Water * 3.
Your max chakra capacity is 30x your Control attribute. The Regeneration attribute and Capacity attribute are almost useless to you.
Innate chakra of 1, (yes 1, not 10 re-scaled) every other point in the water. He can still do all normal techniques, he just has to use his water as a literal chakra pool. No regen, but a skill to drain chakra from those touching water he is also touching, may eventually increase to mist.

May transfer chakra to others by having them drink his water in .5 L quantities which hold arbitrary amounts of chakra he may decide, from 1 to all of it. Quantities less than than critical mass (.5 L) of water swiftly lose charge outside of his barrel. Quantities over .5 L lose charge at a rate dependent on how much chakra was originally in the water, with more chakra lasting longer for times between 30 minutes and 2 hours.

How quickly do things notice they're being drained?
dumb animals, never
smart animals, eventually
ninja, variable

User can very roughly sense magnitude and direction of chakra sources he is draining within his range, but he is still unskilled. The difference between a school of fish, a giant gator and a patch of leeches will require more training, and distance will also take time. Water currents are disruptive to sensing direction, fortunately swamps are mostly stagnant and still. Such matters can be expected to improve with training.

Bloodline user carries around 10L of water with him at all times in a special barrel which would take him a week of specialised work to replace, the barrel helps keep the chakra from escaping. He had spares at home and would quite like to get to work making one here as well at some point.

If you run out of water you are screwed, so you may choose to make extra barrels of various sizes to hold extra water, though it will affect your maneuverability and such to lug around too much. At start you can drain 1 chakra point every minute, worst case scenario you can drain your team mates without permanent ill effect so long as you don't suck them dry. Final drain rate TBD: Jounin level we want him to be able to suck genin dry and possibly chuunin but not jounin.

There exist simple techniques to condense moisture out of the humidity of the air at a slow rate in all but the most arid of locales, which you may acquire for 3xp.

Also could someone come up with a cool name.

Edit: His/her bloodline allows instantaneous absorption of chakra straight from the barrel, but only by him/herself. Everyone else must drink.

Edit 2: A normal ninja may be supercharged by drinking the water. They treat it like normal chakra, it sticks around till they use it unless it's more than their body can hold in which case the extra is wasted at a rate of 10CP/minute until they hit their normal chakra limit. In the bloodlimit user we will essentially treat the barrel as identical to their normal chakra stores for combat purposes. The max bodily capacity of the bloodlimit user is 1, don't bother trying to supercharge him to hold extra. It'll all just slide off his highly specialised chakra system, possibly causing damage.

The total amount a ninja can be supercharged by is (Control + Capacity) x5. That's the reciever's stats, not the bloodlimit user's.

Here.
 
I would also like to point out that we apparently know water walking but not tree walking, when in canon the brats learned tree walking, THEN water walking. Just a bit of wtf that we'll apparently pass water-walking checks but not tree-walking ones.
 
I would also like to point out that we apparently know water walking but not tree walking, when in canon the brats learned tree walking, THEN water walking. Just a bit of wtf that we'll apparently pass water-walking checks but not tree-walking ones.
We are from the Land of Water. And it's a progression in terms of chakra control (in fluff), not of the actual skill. One is adhesion, the other is repulsion + surface tension magic.
 
It's linked in the character sheet. The range and rate of draining and the detail and reliability of the chakra sense are related to the technique's skill. It is a valuable skill to train, and I think it is probably what is going to determine the ability to drain through mist.

Oh, the final drain rate isn't decided yet. Hm, it's extremely hard to decide whether or not this is worth a level 4 in that case. I have edited
[X] Plan Red Team to include one level of this Technique instead of Dispel, pending future clarification.

I agree it's valuable, but it's likely less valuable than Awareness, Combat Skill (or Technique), and Chakra Control maxed. After those I am very much open to leveling it. @AugSphere, would you or another GM be able to give a qualitative description of the differences in effectiveness between level 4 (currently unspecified) and level 1 (1 chakra / minute)?

I would also like to point out that we apparently know water walking but not tree walking, when in canon the brats learned tree walking, THEN water walking. Just a bit of wtf that we'll apparently pass water-walking checks but not tree-walking ones.

We come from Hidden Mist, man!

Also, @eaglejarl, I've finally gotten around to making the alterations you suggested to Repay in Kind, and marked the area under the break as non-canon.
 
Last edited:
I appear to be confused (almost finished with my analysis post though - but then Plan Red got edited). Are the bloodlines in Plan Red and Frozen Gatorade the same, so the only real differences between them are fluff, skill points, and water whip?
 
I appear to be confused (almost finished with my analysis post though - but then Plan Red got edited). Are the bloodlines in Plan Red and Frozen Gatorade the same, so the only real differences between them are fluff, skill points, and water whip?

There is also a different plan for the mission (generic hunting vs strategic hunting), and I think some other minor Skill allocation changes. I haven't compared the plans in detail, so you would know better at this moment.
 
There is also a different plan for the mission (generic hunting vs strategic hunting), and I think some other minor Skill allocation changes. I haven't compared the plans in detail, so you would know better at this moment.
Cool. Since Plan Frozen Gatorade referred to the bloodline as Gatorade and a Japanese phrase I can't read and google translate didn't translate I wasn't sure if that was the same ability as Vampiric Dew.
 
We do not need to max Control, and we very much need Tactical Movement. How about this?

@Radvic I use the name Vampire Dew in the character's stats.

I also believe the 'Strategic Hunting' plan is not going to survive contact with the QMs, for one thing, we don't have a way to produce a disturbance in the water at a distance, except perhaps by throwing rocks. We don't know if we can find the sort of elevated island talked about (not surrounded by water on more than two sides), either, as most of the swamp is chest-high to a genin.

Shikigami might have a good part in teaching us how to hunt in the swamp, take us somewhere and set us up. He's our sensei, after all.
 
Last edited:
I appear to be confused (almost finished with my analysis post though - but then Plan Red got edited). Are the bloodlines in Plan Red and Frozen Gatorade the same, so the only real differences between them are fluff, skill points, and water whip?

We are from the Land of Water. And it's a progression in terms of chakra control (in fluff), not of the actual skill. One is adhesion, the other is repulsion + surface tension magic.

It looks like none of the GMs are currently online, but we only have ~11 hours before voting closes. It doesn't look like we will get a clarification on the per-level value of Vampire Dew before I go to sleep, so - in the interests of avoiding any vote-splitting-related catastrophes, how about we compromise and merge votes? Votes for either would count as votes for the compromise plan, though I'll edit Red Team anyway.

I strongly feel we should max Control, because our peak burn rate of 20-25 Chakra a turn for the team means the entire team can only sustain for 6 turns at full capacity, and that's not even including the rather significant cost of using Water Whip [14 + maintenance].

However, I'm not adverse to putting points into Vampire Dew and Tactical Movement. How about this?

Waka -

Vampire Dew [30]

Wits 2 [4]
Control 4 [18]

Skills -

Awa 4 [7]
Tac Move 1 [1]
Rest Default

Techs -

Water Whip 4 [10]
Vampire Dew 2 [3]
Water Walking, Condensation [2]
 
@Rihaku why are you putting so many points into water whip? We don't even have confirmation on what benefit leveling that has.

I've already made a compromise. I don't actually see how your proposal is a change besides what's required to be able to drain chakra.
 
Last edited:
Note: As of 10:40 PM PST, the creator of Plan Frozen Gatorade has voted for Plan Red. Given the relative similarities between the plans, it's probably worth voting for Plan Red if you were going to vote for Plan Frozen Gatorade.

Analysis of current options:

I am not a perfect observer and have bias. I've included my personal analysis so you can better account for my bias. Feel free to ignore it and just look at the pros and cons. Note that there are some subtle mechanics differences I don't understand well enough to summarize. I've included the raw posts in spoilered form with the post number referenced. Some of them refer to external documents and I don't yet know how to link to them, either search for the post number or wait for me to edit them.

As I counted, there are currently three different proposed plans. Note that you can vote for things individually, but in general cohesive plans will have a better effect (since we can optimize for the situation we'll be going into). I will only analyze the general plans.

There's been a lot of debate about the specifics of point assignment, which, frankly, I don't have the time to read. I've spoilered the explicit plans and stated their post numbers so you can look them up if you care. I've included what I believe to be the key differences between the plans.

Note: When voting, please quote exactly the spoilered format, it will make votes much easier to tally.

[X] Plan Red Team
-[X] Use the indicated builds below for Mori and Waka
-[X] Earth Affinity for us
-[X] Use at least part of the free day to acquire Water-Walking and Tactical Movement 1
-[X] Mission: Strategic Hunting - Ask Shikigami-sensei what tactics he would recommend we use to hunt safely. Ask Skein user to check over our plan and make any adjustments before we enter the field.* Baseline plan: Have our ninjutsu user create disturbances in the water at maximum range, while standing in an elevated position with a rock face between himself and the target area. He should peek out only the minimum amount required to maintain line of sight to the target area. Upon attracting targets, strangle them with a water ninjutsu. If additional firepower is needed, have our weapon user throw kunai and shruiken, but change areas between every downed target. We ourselves should hang back behind the rock face in a crouched position, minimizing our target profile, ready to pull our teammates out of trouble and engage any nasty surprises. The elevated area where we set up should not be surrounded by water on more than two sides, if at all possible. Observe animal behavior, see if any species are stupid or predictable enough for man-made traps to capture. The presence of a large alligator population indicates a huge prey animal population, as they are apex predators.


Why Red? Because Red is the color of ACTION, and arbitrary designations will unify us, promoting teamwork!

Mori -

Frozen Skein [30]

Dex 2 [4], Wits 2 [4], Capacity 3 [10], Regen 3 [5], Other Stats 1

Awareness 3 [3]
Weapons 4 [7]
Tactical Movement 4 [10]
Stealth 2
Taijutsu 2
Sealing 0 [Monomaniacal]


Wind Level 2

Techniques:

Dispel [1]
Water-Walking [1]
Basic 3


Waka -

Vampiric Dew [30] - It is believed that at the twilight of the gods, the Warrior, Susano'o, God of Storm and Tide, cast his form into a mortal shell, uniting Yin and Yang into a body that would walk this earth incarnate. Such was his supernal grace that the Chakra of his divine authority could not be contained within a physical form, so instead he imbued it into a bright nimbus of mist that hung about his shoulders. Themselves blessed with supernaturally potent chakra, the users of the Vampiric Dew believe themselves descended from the God of Storms. Their eternal aspiration: to return to the glories of old, becoming one with the chakra that resides in their water and thereby unbinding their physical forms. Then they will roam, unchained and immanent, as a god across this world again...

Wits 2 [4], Control 4 [18], Others 1

Awareness 4 [7]
Resist Intimidation 2 [3]
Taijutsu 2
Weapons 2
Stealth 2


Water Element - Level 2

Techniques:

Water Whip Technique 4 [10]

Water-Walking [1]
Dispel [1]
Condense Water [1]


Basic 3

---

Notes:

I still prefer Waka to be the Dew user, because a large male has more space in his body to accommodate eventual mad science water bladders, neutralizing his reliance on the barrel. However, this is not an adamant preference and if there is a substantial advantage to Keiko being the Dew user, I could be convinced to switch.

Since Techniques are as expensive as Skills to level, I wanted our ninjutsu user to have a pretty versatile and powerful technique. I hope the very strict Control requirement helps balance the fact that it's moderately more useful than most techniques; the cost makes it a bit all-or-nothing similar to Puppetry, in exchange for similar advantages. I do think it's still substantially less versatile than Shadow Clone and other mainstay Naruto techniques, even if it is applicable in more situations than Grand Fireball. If disallowed, substitute Undersea Guardian Technique with the most versatile water animation technique we are allowed. Its defensive aspects are the most important, since it's Waka's primary defense. In combat, members of this clan basically serve as a cross between a Suna Puppeteer and an Akimichi.

Awareness is the most critical defensive Skill bar none (Combat Skills excluded), so I maxed it on both characters. With multiple Awareness 4 checks we should hopefully be able to stop any alligator surprises.

Keiko is our versatile fixer character that is capable of rapidly moving around the battlefield while being effective at any range. She can kite enemies with her high movement + attack capabilities, while her ranged attack focus allows her to perform timely interventions across any area of the battlefield.

This team is extremely capable in combat, but high Wits leaves open the opportunity for relatively swift development of social defenses. Social offense should not take valuable XP as reasoned arguments don't require a Skill to employ. Ideally, at least one member of our party will have high Resist Intimidate, and another member will have high Resist Fast-Talk, so that they can snap the others out of nasty social attacks.

*This should be assumed to be automatically included in any future plan.

Plan Red Team Pros:
  • Frozen Skein is probably the best bloodline and NPC teammate could possibly have. It provides an in universe way for us to account for knowledge we don't have access to as readers and has other useful characteristics as well, like letting us make powerful seals in the future (once we find a sealmaster).
  • Explicitly describes a good use of Skein ability (to check combat plans)
  • Has a specific combat plan for fighting
  • Describes "stragetic hunting" which includes observing the animals, asking our Jonin for advice, and using the Skein ability
Plan Red Team Cons:
  • Potentially specifics of point distributions
  • May be fatal errors in instructions for strategic hunting

Other Notes:
  • As with the majority of proposed plans, this one involves going into the swamp first.
  • This plan has the most detailed fluff (in world descriptions) surrounding it, it's very pleasing to read (personal thought), and has the most explicit instructions for the Main character to follow.

My personal analysis of Plan Red: This is the best plan because of the detail that it provides in how to do swamp hunting with the stipulation that we will update if we are mistaken about something. Also having an awareness 4 character is useful.


[X] Earth affinity
[X] Plan Frozen Gatorade
-[X] Mori Keiko the Frozen Sanity-Checker
-[X] Wakahisa Noburi the Gatorade Ninja
-[X] Swamp (hunt, scout)
-[X] If we have the day to train, level Hazou's Tactical Movement and Water-walking.


Wakahisa Noburi is as Mori Keiko was in my previous vote.

Stocky Build, all the better to hide behind???

2 Wits, 2 Dexterity, 3 Control
Water Affinity = 2
Vampire Dew bloodline (Hozon Mizuhakeru)


3 Awareness, 2 Tactical Movement, 3 Stealth, 1 Wall-walking, 1 Water-walking, 1 Knowledge: Deadly Swamp
4 Suiton: Mizuhakeru, 2 Suiton: Water Whip, 1 Condense Water
1 Unspent XP


Mori Keiko is as in Rihaku's Plan Red Team.

2 Wits, 2 Dexterity, 3 Capacity, 3 Regen
Wind Affinity = 2
Frozen Skein bloodline, Sealing Monomaniac


4 Weapons, 3 Awareness, 4 Tactical Movement, 2 Stealth, 1 Water-walking
1 Dispel
0 Unspent XP

Plan Frozen Gatorade Pros:

  • This plan uses two bloodlines, Frozen Skein and Gatorade (named Aquaman in the bloodlines post). Both are powerful and versatile
  • Frozen Skein is probably the best bloodline and NPC teammate could possibly have. It provides an in universe way for us to account for knowledge we don't have access to as readers and has other useful characteristics as well, like letting us make powerful seals in the future (once we find a sealmaster).
  • Gatorade/Aquaman (G/A) allows for huge chakra storage, which means lots of fun water ninjutsu in the future, but no natural regen. That said, they can drain it from various water sources. In that draining, they can also mildly sense things. At the moment, this is underdeveloped, but with training it can be used. Also can give teammates water to drink which will transfer G/A's chakra to them.
  • Trains Main Character's tactical movement and water walking, both of which will likely be important in the swamp.
Plan Frozen Gatorade Cons:
  • It doesn't have an explicit combat plan, we're currently just hoping we have before the next update to plan our combat. If the next update includes combat, we won't have optimized it yet.
  • Highest awareness is a 3. Given that Jonin have been ambushed by creatures in the swamp, this might be a problem.

Other Notes:
  • As with the majority of proposed plans, this one involves going into the swamp first.
  • This integrates ideas from the largest number of users of all the plans (so far as I'm aware). This has a certain beauty to it

My personal analysis of Plan Frozen Gatorade: It's a decent plan, but not as good as plan Red.


[x]Plan With Danger Sense
-[X]
Mori Keiko the Gatorade Ninja
-[X] Wakahisa Noburi the Lightning precog
Bloodline: 1 Second Danger Sense
Affinity: Lightning
Int 1, Wits 1, Resolve 1
Str 1, Dex 2, Sta 1
Pre 1, Man 1, Comp 1
Cap 2, Control 2, Regen 2


Lightning 2

Tannj 2
Weapons 3
Resist fast talk 1
Resist intimidation 1
Intimidation 1
Stealth 2
Awareness 4
Tactical Movement 3
Transformation 1
Clone 1
Substitution 2
Wall Climbing 1
Water talking 1
Dispelling 1
Lightning technique: Blinding Flash 2


-[X] Swamp (hunt, scout)
-[X] If we have the day to train, level Hazou's Tactical Movement and Waterwalking.


New character alertness focused with lots of mobility. Designed to be the flashy distraction while we hit hard. Does not need lots of Chakra due to being able to get support from the other teammate. Lightning leads to enhanced reflexes, which synergizes with 1 second danger sense bloodline. The faster you are, the more you can do with the warning.

Plan with Danger Sense Pros:
  • Has two powerful bloodlines, Gatorade/Aquaman (G/A) and Danger Sense (DS)
  • Gatorade/Aquaman (G/A) allows for huge chakra storage, which means lots of fun water ninjutsu in the future, but no natural regen. That said, they can drain it from various water sources. In that draining, they can also mildly sense things. At the moment, this is underdeveloped, but with training it can be used. Also can give teammates water to drink which will transfer G/A's chakra to them.
  • Danger Sense (DS) allows for rerolling some failed combat die, which is useful, and has interesting applications. Essentially the character knows when something bad is going to happen 1 second before it does. This is quite useful.
Plan with Danger Sense Cons:
  • Doesn't include Frozen Skein (this in notable, Frozen Skein means our lack of knowledge our character knows won't kill us)
  • Doesn't include specific combat plan.

Other Notes:
  • As with all cohesively proposed plans, this one involves going into the swamp first.
  • This one is the only one which includes the Danger Sense bloodline, which is an interesting ability and might be fun to play with.

My personal analysis: This plan is pretty good, but Frozen Skein is just more useful than Danger Sense in my opinion.

All the other things I saw people voting for were individual options, which are probably not as strong as a cohesive plan. It'd be best if the remaining voters decided on one of the above plans and all voted for it, so that we don't accidentally have something random pop up from single votes and get an incoherent plan.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top