(As always, this is coming from all three QMs.)

Let's start by answering the question: we enjoy having Hazō be the Dog Summoner. It's a safe bet that there will be a way for him to get the Scroll back in the future. As to his seals – honestly, at this point we're simply going to say "we'll figure it out later, since it's not going to be relevant until probably 2026." And yes, we're open to discussing things with the players when the time comes.

Now let's talk the other piece:

First, we aren't keen on having words like 'unfair' directed at us, and we're getting a bit frustrated by the current discourse around this whole topic. There seems to have been some confusion – possibly with our writing on the announcements, possibly with the reading of the announcements, but it exists.

Here's the deal: From where we sit, nothing about that chapter was unfair. Let's go through it:

Q: Was this chapter simulationist?
A: We already said it was not. What we intended by that – and, indeed, what we actually said – was essentially "we wrote an exciting chapter that came to the simulationist outcome, but we did not bother being strict about how we got there." So far as we can tell, that's what we've said throughout but either we didn't say it correctly or people are misremembering, because it seems like everyone stopped reading at the words "No, it was not" and ignored the qualifiers.

Now let's look at the pieces:

Q: Was it reasonable for Hazō to die?
A: Yes, absolutely. Once Hazō let Orochimaru operate on him, Hazō was dead whenever Orochimaru wanted him to be. At an absolute minimum, Orochimaru could simply refuse to do the maintenance work. Ergo, it's completely reasonable for us to have Hazō die.

Q: Is it reasonable that Hazō was at that site, at that time, with the Dog Scroll and his normal seals, and thus Orochimaru gets to steal those things?
A: We are comfortable with it, but we understand that the players would very much like it if Orochimaru did not profit from killing Hazō.

Q: "But wait," we hear from the crowd, "If we had gotten to vote on a plan for that update, we could have taken precautions! Not been there in physical form, have given the Scroll to Mari, etc!"
A: Were those ideas ever seriously discussed before the chapter came out in which they would have been relevant? Because we looked at the plan that was voted in for that chapter and found nothing about taking anti-Orochimaru precautions. Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's easy to identify counterplay in the rear-view mirror. The players were focused on different problems – mostly anti-Akatsuki problems – and Orochimaru was a blind spot.


We aren't going to ban all discussion of this topic, but there likely isn't a lot of further value in discussion. It would take a great deal of evidence to change our position, which is that everything that happened in the chapter was fair and the chapter was simulationist in its outcome even if the exact path to get there was not. As always, we are open to being shown that we're wrong but unless there is an absolute slam-dunk argument for that case, we would prefer to simply move on. There's still a lot of worldbuilding to do on the afterlife and we'd like to be focusing our spoons there instead of on re-litigating past events.

With all of that said, a reminder: the quest is becoming more narrativist. That means that whatever challenges Hazō faces, there will be a way to surmount them in the end, if not always in the moment. Disadvantages and negative consequences will be challenges that lead to further development instead of unstoppable barriers. And, of course, now that the afterlife is in play, there is very little cost for dying aside from some time lost. Yes, you will (at least temporarily) lose whatever gear you were carrying and if you were (e.g.) defending an objective at the time of your death then the objective would be captured/destroyed. Even if someone you were bodyguarding is killed, that simply means an extensive rift-dive to retrieve them. Hardly the worst thing ever.
My take on the matter is that if you are to write a non-simulationist for-fun chapter that is later canonized, you should endeavor that we are neither advantaged nor disadvantaged compared to the counterfactual, where possible.
 
[x] Good old fashioned espionage
  • Statistically these are mostly untrained civilians, and most new arrivals are civilians too
  • Blend in, lay low, speak less than you listen, make local friends, trade small information
  • Try not to break enforced rules or make enemies unless it's obviously a good idea
  • We're looking for any/all of:
    • big, recognizable names
    • power structure TL;DR
    • a rough map of civilization
    • newbie traps
    • pragmatic safety advice
    • sealing equipment
    • escape-relevant lore
    • a chill friend. not so chill is fine too.
    • the next plot hook/world-ending catastrophe/you know the jist, Hazō stuff
Alt:

[x] Interrogate the wall for lore
 
My take on the matter is that if you are to write a non-simulationist for-fun chapter that is later canonized, you should endeavor that we are neither advantaged nor disadvantaged compared to the counterfactual, where possible.
To what end is this comment? The QMs have already noted your opinion and asked to move on.

I'm just reading incidentally because QM posts ping, and even I'm tiring of it.
 
To what end is this comment? The QMs have already noted your opinion and asked to move on.

I'm just reading incidentally because QM posts ping, and even I'm tiring of it.
Shrug. It's my experience that opinions expressed in thread are sometimes missed, so unless something is a direct response to me, I will repeat my opinion plenty of times, not in the expectation of getting a response, but to make sure it is known.

And with comments within the post that assume we are post-hoc-rationalizing things we wouldn't have done given the opportunity, I am predisposed to respond defensively.

Considering the precautions we took when meeting Oro prior to this (Shadow clones, bringing Mari, etc.) I do not particularly see it as a fair judgment that we would have done nothing of the sort if he requested our presence alone and unaccompanied.

e: On reflection this came off harsher than intended; I could have expressed this more tactfully toward both you and the QMs, and do apologize for that.
 
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In the interest of avoiding a meeting update I'm posting a bunch of OOC questions we have for the village and hopefully we can act on
  • Is there an orientation they give the new arrivals? What do they think we need to know?
  • How large is the village? How many former ninja live here? Which villages are they from?
  • What do they know about afterlife geography in general?
  • Has anyone ever heard of tooth-shaped mountains?
  • Is there a larger town nearby? Is there some sort of government or leader?
  • What do they use for money? How do people get it?
  • Is there something a new person could do to make themselves useful?
  • Do they know anything about how afterlife arrivals are distributed?
  • If one wants to find a person or thing, how is that generally accomplished?
  • How to they keep track of time with no sun?
  • What are the primary dangers in the afterlife besides memory drain
  • Relatedly, are there known strategies for resisting the memory drain?
  • What happens if Hazou dies again? Will he respawn near where he did the first time?
  • Lastly, Hazou had a strange encounter with a skeletal demon(?) who absorbed a shimmer and shapeshifted(?) into a bearded man. Do they know what the fuck is going on with that?
In the interest of keeping the story legible for readers that don't follow the thread, all the relevant information here will be conveyed to Hazou in-character by residents of the village in the next chapter. However, in the interest of dodging the dreaded Meeting Updates, we will answer them OOC so that your plan can hopefully have more than zero action.

In order:
  • You're stuck with whatever you died with, and your spawn location. If they're good, you're lucky, otherwise, tough shit. It's good form to bail people out of death loops, and if you got bailed out, try really hard not to die again. A couple of villagers have heard (maybe from some traveler?) that there's a way to change where you return to when you die, but they don't know how to do that. Otherwise, there's nothing really urgent for new arrivals. You're dead. Things can't really get much better or worse.
  • The settlement has eighty or so people. None of them are former ninja. They're just people whose spawn location was nearby, some even on that same mountain as Hazou.
  • Most can relay information about the local geography, but they don't know much beyond the local area. They say that Daiji did some exploring, but whatever he found, it must not have been very important because no one remembers. No one has heard of tooth-shaped mountains, but a villager will mention there are nearby infinite mountains (which have no peaks, and just keep climbing forever).
  • There are a couple more settlements nearby, a ways down the path, but they aren't much bigger than this one. The villagers agree that grand cities must be out there.... but no one remembers how they know that.
  • They don't really have a need for money. As best as Hazou can tell, they operate on barter.
  • If you want to be helpful, you can just apply whatever skills you had in life. For example, if you were a carpenter, fix up the walls, or the houses, or furniture.
  • They don't know anything about how afterlife arrivals are distributed.
  • If you want to find something, going looking for it seems like a good start. They have no special searching magic.
  • They generally don't keep track of time. Everyone knows vaguely how long an hour or a day is, which is why they can tell you that the next town is "about a dayish down that way", but there's nothing urgent here with everyone already dead, so keeping track of time isn't too useful.
  • There's dangerous stuff out in the Wilds, but they can't exactly kill you more dead than you already are. Probably the biggest danger is getting stuck somewhere that you can't get out of, like the bottom of a deep ravine. Hazou isn't sure if mind-damaging creatures consequently don't exist, or if the villagers don't remember their encounters with such creatures.
  • There's no way to resist the afterlife memory drain. You can only influence what gets taken first.
  • Yep, if you die again, you'll return to the area where you first arrived.
  • Nope, no clue what was on with that. Sounds freaky, would probably stay away.
 
[X] Action Plan: The Meetings Will Continue Until Morale Improves
Word Count: <<299
  • Seek information
    • Ask the questions already answered
    • How often do travelers come through?
      • Ask if they've seen or heard of anyone matching Jiriaya's or Akane's description
  • Seek resources
    • Sealing materials are of primary importance -- a brush, brass trinket, ink, and paper are top priorities.
  • Offer to help -- what are their major problems?
    • Hazou was a ninja in life, and he has ninja skills -- offer to use those to help them out in exchange for sealing materials. Or the promise of future materials, if Hazou gets killed again and has to return to his spawn point.
Okay major edits to the plan in light of the questions answered. We are now offering to help them in exchange for sealing materials or (probably more realistically) future sealing materials if we get killed.
 
How and why would a village of 80 people have sealing materials?
Because all it really is, is ink, copper, a brush, and paper. While preferably, we would prefer it to be good quality versions of all these things. I'm pretty sure we can work with low equality, It just won't be safe, remotely. We might as well be dead.

Then Again we're all Soul
 
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@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
I was making some spreadsheets about Hazo's XP over the years and noticed some things that were missing. I don't know if it's too late for some of these or not, but here they are anyway.


Chapter 453: Sealing the Deal
Missing: Base, PCJ, YSJ

Chapter 505.1: Fussy Little Details
Only the -40 was put in Hazo's sheet for buying 4 FP. We were also given -4 PCJ XP from that for some reason.
Missing: Base, PCJ, YSJ

Chapter 506: Talking with the Boss
Missing: Base, PCJ, YSJ

Chapter 660: Like Clockwork (FOOM)
Missing: YSJ

Chapter 697, Part 1: Lunar Eclipse, Ready!
Missing: Base, PCJ, YSJ

Chapter 701: The Rift
Missing: Base, PCJ, YSJ
Thanks for compiling this. It should be all sorted out. Hazou is the proud owner of 22 additional XP.
 
[X] Action Plan: The Meetings Will Continue Until Morale Improves

I don't think that it's likely that we'll be able to find sealing supplies in this tiny town that probably doesn't even have a need to write in general, but I don't think there's any downside to asking, either.
 
Most can relay information about the local geography, but they don't know much beyond the local area. They say that Daiji did some exploring, but whatever he found, it must not have been very important because no one remembers. No one has heard of tooth-shaped mountains, but a villager will mention there are nearby infinite mountains (which have no peaks, and just keep climbing forever).
[X] Get to the top of the infinite mountain
 
[X] Action Plan: The Meetings Will Continue Until Morale Improves
[X] Get to the top of the infinite mountain
[X] Buy a Youthsuit

Whats the worst that could happen?
Would the GM's do that to us?
Praise Jashin.
 
My take on the matter is that if you are to write a non-simulationist for-fun chapter that is later canonized, you should endeavor that we are neither advantaged nor disadvantaged compared to the counterfactual, where possible.
That's not what this chapter was. Additionally:

Q: Was this chapter simulationist?
A: We already said it was not. What we intended by that – and, indeed, what we actually said – was essentially "we wrote an exciting chapter that came to the simulationist outcome, but we did not bother being strict about how we got there." So far as we can tell, that's what we've said throughout but either we didn't say it correctly or people are misremembering, because it seems like everyone stopped reading at the words "No, it was not" and ignored the qualifiers.
Emphasis added.

Because all it really is, is ink, copper, a brush, and paper.
Pedantry: brass, technically. Not saying that copper won't work, simply that the version Hazō knows uses brass.
All we really need is a brass trinket and some pine needles. Those don't seem outside the means of a small town
What are the pine needles for?
 
You know what would be funny? If the QMs decided to run with the "sometime in the middle of the night, Hazou goes to sleep and wakes up in the afterlife" plan, Hazou broke his way out of the afterlife, and immediately tried to contact Orochimaru under the assumption that it was Akatsuki that attacked us while we slept, not Orochimaru.
 
I honestly thought Oro just killing Hazō instead of turning him into a brainless puppet was a nice act of mercy from y'all.

Hazō needed like 5 separate things to survive Oro and he didn't have any of them.

1. Bio-sealer to do maintenance
2. Seal(s) to prevent transmission of Oro's killswitch (chakdar/mars/oro!locking seal from the J hoard combination array)
3. An esoteric attack against an important resource of Oro's, say his Summoning scroll
4. Some form of instant movement hax to flee
5. Some specialized resolve vs intimidation stunt to let Hazō counterattack

Without all of those Oro just kills Hazō in a slightly different way. With all of them you can keep the game theory dance going.
---
Can Hazō still feel his bloodline activate when he traces out the Ami dance seal? I'm curious if that's going to be the primary method of sealing from now on
 
I honestly thought Oro just killing Hazō instead of turning him into a brainless puppet was a nice act of mercy from y'all.

Hazō needed like 5 separate things to survive Oro and he didn't have any of them.

1. Bio-sealer to do maintenance
2. Seal(s) to prevent transmission of Oro's killswitch (chakdar/mars/oro!locking seal from the J hoard combination array)
3. An esoteric attack against an important resource of Oro's, say his Summoning scroll
4. Some form of instant movement hax to flee
5. Some specialized resolve vs intimidation stunt to let Hazō counterattack

Without all of those Oro just kills Hazō in a slightly different way. With all of them you can keep the game theory dance going.
---
Can Hazō still feel his bloodline activate when he traces out the Ami dance seal? I'm curious if that's going to be the primary method of sealing from now on
You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding my objection to this. I don't object in any way to him dying (and personally I'm not especially invested in how things turned out in regards to the summon scroll or whatever but some people are and I'm trying to express this in a way that gets across their objections better than they are able); my objection is specifically to prime wandering off hours away from everyone else with his valuables for Oro to yoink.

... that said I don't really care about this enough to continue talking about it and do not really expect it to cause problems we cannot solve in the future.
 
You seem to be fundamentally misunderstanding my objection to this. I don't object in any way to him dying (and personally I'm not especially invested in how things turned out in regards to the summon scroll or whatever but some people are and I'm trying to express this in a way that gets across their objections better than they are able); my objection is specifically to prime wandering off hours away from everyone else with his valuables for Oro to yoink.

... that said I don't really care about this enough to continue talking about it and do not really expect it to cause problems we cannot solve in the future.
Apologies, I haven't read any of the discourse outside of the QM thread notifications; "what Hazō would need to make Oro stand down" is just a topic I've been musing on. Thought it was topical
 
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