I can make the reference to the bolthole claerer -- the point is for her (but not Itachi) to realize that Hazou wouldn't talk about the iron mine like this, and to recognize that it's code for her to get the team out.

We...are? That's what this is, a letter with a reference to the bolthole-iron mine.
Why do you think Itachi is reading our mail?

Like we give 2 letters to Nobs, one for Mari, one for Naruto/Itachi. She reads and destroys the first before Nobs ever leaves the Estate to deliver the second.

What's the point of not bring explicit in our letter to Mari?
 
Why do you think Itachi is reading our mail?

Like we give 2 letters to Nobs, one for Mari, one for Naruto/Itachi. She reads and destroys the first before Nobs ever leaves the Estate to deliver the second.

What's the point of not bring explicit in our letter to Mari?
I think I understand now. My intent is not for Hazou to send letters to Naruto/Itachi; only to Noburi/Mari for them to read. However, since Itachi is Itachi, he may 'coincidentally' pop up and demand to read Hazou's letters.

This is a major deviation from your original plan to mine, which does have Hazou send letters for others to read.
 
I think I understand now. My intent is not for Hazou to send letters to Naruto/Itachi; only to Noburi/Mari for them to read. However, since Itachi is Itachi, he may 'coincidentally' pop up and demand to read Hazou's letters
Ah I see, sure, that makes sense. I think I prefer my version. I think yours is risking severe miscommunication hazards. IMO Nobs has no business reading the note to Mari.

Good call on some of the WC opt stuff and including a seal package for them, I think a few sets of skywalkers, SCSA, SSSA, RRBs, Darkness Domes, and Force Blades would be good to include.

Any of my voters object to that?
 
If the "HOWR but turned up to 11" rune works out then we probably want "Sunglasses in a seal" since that seems like a reasonably doable buff/debuff that we can more easily control.
Doesn't seem like it should be too hard to make a Banshee slayer-esque "light dimmer" type seal.
HOWS makes coloured light. We have ES and a wide variety of gemstones. Just set the HOWS to green and wear condened-ruby glasses.

We've had a similar plan for tinted strobe light seals kicking around for ages.
 
I mean we're seeing Noburi in person... we can just verbally ask him "Hey BTW can you ask Mari to check on Project Climax? I know I know, she's the one who came up with the name I swear." or whatever, and Mari can take it from there. Just Declare this as a contingency Hazou and Mari set up ahead of time.
 
[X] Action Plan: To Out Or Not To Out
I mean we're seeing Noburi in person... we can just verbally ask him "Hey BTW can you ask Mari to check on Project Climax? I know I know, she's the one who came up with the name I swear." or whatever, and Mari can take it from there. Just Declare this as a contingency Hazou and Mari set up ahead of time.
I second this. We've known for a while that what's currently happening might happen; it seems reasonable to Declare that we've prepared a contingency in advance.
 
I mean we're seeing Noburi in person... we can just verbally ask him "Hey BTW can you ask Mari to check on Project Climax? I know I know, she's the one who came up with the name I swear." or whatever, and Mari can take it from there. Just Declare this as a contingency Hazou and Mari set up ahead of time.
I second this. We've known for a while that what's currently happening might happen; it seems reasonable to Declare that we've prepared a contingency in advance.
I can add a Declare in, does this (bolded) work?
  • Hazou suggests a dead drop letter for Noburi -- make it seem like we're moving around too much to talk. In it:
    • Copied lists of seals/seal notes from our research. Make it haphazardly-put together -- write on the move if viable.
      • Officially, this is insurance if we die en route: our research can live on.
      • Unofficially, this is if Itachi shows up: if he reads our research it'll provide weak evidence we're not doing rift research.
      • In reality, Hazou will accidentally slip in some exfiltration-related seals (Skywalkers, Darkness Domes...) he thinks will help Mari.
    • A separate letter for Mari to read, in-line with what we've written to her previously. Include (-1FP) a pre-arranged "GTFO of Leaf" codeword in the letter.
 
PSA: Chapter 667 has been extended by a couple of sentences to clarify the effects of Disciple of the Beyond.

The changes are as follows, underlined for visibility:

Every time he had come here to practice the best ways of cracking open his reality and rendering it more easily accessible by these...Things, they had been there. Their passage had buffeted and battered him constantly as they crowded close, swimming through his brain and defecating ideas and understanding while pressing obscene and defiled bodies against the crack in his mind that almost but not quite gave them entrance to his home.

He turned his attention away from the Things and focused it back on the runic construct. It made more sense now, the willow snow dimension connecting clearly and cleanly with the fruit whirlwind kick. It made sense, in the same way that a kata made sense after you had practiced it a thousand times. In fact, runes seemed far more logical than seals. He was mapping dozens of dimensions down into something that could fit across the Paint; why make the extra effort to fit it into two dimensions when he could use the third as well? Honestly, it made so much more sense that he could barely remember how he had done the two-dimensional squishing in the first place.

Author's Note: Good news! Hazō has exchanged his 'Summoning Scroll Acoylyte' stunt for the 'Disciple of the Beyond' stunt! This is an exchange, so there is no XP cost. The change increases Hazō's Primordial Sealing skill (the one used for runes) at the cost of reducing his Sealing skill (the one used for paper-based seals).
 
Unreality blinked around him and softened as nothing and everything changed. The petrichor color of the madness that swaddled him now seemed familiar and logical. Something̸̰̹̝̯̜ stood between him and the hyperreality, shielding his fragile humanity from the grinding tastes of F4# and the plunging heights of starlight that carried him along the river of ideation and reification, his runic construct bobbing lazily beside him.

His perceptions had sharpened, and weakened. His awareness ('sight' was entirely the wrong word) stretched farther and penetrated what had previously been stygian pits of irony and dazzling rafts of blind indifference. Shapes moved around him, most of them vastly larger than himself, so large that they could grind buildings or planets to dust with a casual bump, but some so small they seemed able to slip between the fibers of his combat vest without noticing that the vest existed. They weren't anything that a mind from his side of the Paint could have perceived; they existed in too many directions and their composition defied language. He couldn't tell if they were hyperreality's inanimate icebergs or genius denizens or blind and hungry animals—indeed, there were undoubtedly all of those things and more besides. Only now, with the intercession of the S̶͈̯̘̹̰̈̂ō̵̘̖̰ṃ̶̻͈͍̻̌e̶̦̤̾͝ẗ̵̹̅̃́͘͜h̴̛̯̠̪̽̅̋̍i̴̧͌̈́̈̓n̴͊͜g̸̰̹̝̯̜ did he realize that those things had always been here.

Sage's name, how arrogant could one be? He had thought he understood this 'place', that he could come and go as he pleased, using the madness of it to enhance his abilities with seals, his power to test them against the cracks in the Paint in order to find how they would best fit. He had never thought that there were Things here, eating away at his brain for every instant he worked. Every time he had used this power he had suffered a blinding headache for days, one that got worse every time he even thought about anything related to sealing. He had believed it was simply part of what it meant for a puny mortal to be exposed to the Out, but now he knew better.

They had been eating him.

Every time he had come here to practice the best ways of cracking open his reality and rendering it more easily accessible by these...Things, they had been there. Their passage had buffeted and battered him constantly as they crowded close, swimming through his brain and defecating ideas and understanding while pressing obscene and defiled bodies against the crack in his mind that almost but not quite gave them entrance to his home.

Now, he was hidden from them, and for that he was more grateful than anything.

Thank you, he thought as loudly as he could. Hyperreality made no reply.

... I have to wonder if this fucks with Jashin's ability to see us at all, assuming this isn't Jashin.
 
I can very tenuously see the interpretation in which the agreement exists, and it only covers Hazou not working on dimensionalism and not taking concrete steps to interfere with the Akatsuki (in which case we've violated it by sharing stuff with Oro and Naruto, so he's going to kill us).
If I sell guns and someone commits a murder with a gun I sold them was I directly responsible for murder? No. No I'm not.
If I release a book about Nuclear energy and someone, having read that book, builds a nuclear bomb am I directly responsible for that? No. No I'm not.
If I release a textbook on coding and someone builds a startup worth billions of dollars, am I directly responsible for that startup such that I get equity? No, no I do not.
If I open source a bunch of sealing notes to all in Leaf, am I directly responsible for what they do with that information? No, no I am not.


Developing weapons and other sealtech for Leaf falls within "our work of Uplift," and is a necessary part of rebuilding Leaf's currently precarious strategic position. Hokage gets the last word on how those weapons are to be used, and while Hazo went to a lot of trouble to ensure that somebody Uplift-aligned would be "wearing the hat," the mad clan lord can't reasonably be held responsible for every detail of Leaf's foreign policy and strategic planning.
If Itachi didn't want Naruto to be biased against Akatsuki, maybe he should've thought of that when he was abducting and torturing someone who was, even at the time, an obvious eventual hokage candidate. If he didn't want Leaf to be currently scrambling for new defensive options, maybe he should have thought of that when he was carving chunks off their territory right after somebody - glares at Hidan - murdered the previous hokage. Doesn't take a jonin social spec to know that if you try to intimidate somebody into being calm and confident, you're gonna have a bad time.
If "interfering with Nagato's rescue" is to be interpreted so broadly that merely developing multi-purpose capacity infringes on it... Itachi does actually remember who won the Battle of the Gods, right? Nagato didn't successfully finish that ritual, so ninja all over the world are still naturally conflict-prone, so per his parting words we have to work toward lasting peace the hard way, and doing unprecedented things the hard way requires superior tools. What else are we supposed to do here? Roll over and be your slaves? Even if we wanted to, Nara projections say that leads to AMITY's immediate collapse and another world war, which probably wouldn't be good news for Nagato's rescue either.
This. Very much this. @Noumero I'm trying to in your interpretation in what world can Hazo keep the Itachi deal even if Hazo wanted to?

If others in Leaf do things against Akasuki's interests such as Oro: Hazo's somehow broken the deal?
If Leaf's Hokage plans to kill Akasuki: Hazo's somehow broken the deal?
If Hazo follows Leaf's orders under threat of treason (death): Hazo's somehow broken the deal?
If Hazo dreams about weapon design but doesn't build any or do anything: Hazo's somehow broken the deal?

How could Hazo have complied with the deal under our Hokage, please tell me, so far as you understand it?
As from where I'm standing, you're saying it was impossible to comply with the deal? Which, if correct, makes one wonder why Itachi would go to such lengths to make a deal anyway, if he knew that he would later deem it impossible to comply with anyway? Why not just kill Hazo then?



We're developing weapons for the highly specific purpose of killing Akatsuki members, optimized to be deployed at the rift site, at the culmination of the rift race whose explicit goal is to interfere with the Akatsuki's resurrection of Pain.
But we didn't? You do understand that right? That's what I keep saying? Name me a weapon that we've built that could kill an Akatsuki member. Or even come close. We've done nothing of that sort! We've basically just goofed around with time sealing runes, some force domes, etc. Just because Naruto told us to build Akatsuki killing weapons doesn't mean we did! We didn't!
 
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But on a more serious note. Oro's researching Dimensionalism. Itachi's gonna come after him. Can we have Oro defect with Team Uplift? It would help our extraction chances.

[X] Action Plan: Bug Out (Redux)
Word Count: <399
  • Sanity Check with Kagome and Kei
  • Discuss Naruto's orders with Kagome and Kei -- we're going missing for real.
  • We need to exfiltrate the rest of Uplift from Leaf
    • Hazou's research speed is significantly slowed without access to Noburi.
    • Naruto is incapable of standing up to Itachi, it's time to get Mari, Noburi, and Yuno out before Itachi starts torturing them.
    • Hazou's best current plan is to send a letter to Naruto/Itachi telling them we're on our way back.
    • At the same time however, secretly pass Mari encoded written orders to take Noburi and Yuno and GTFO of Leaf.
      • This might be best accomplished by skywalking directly away from the Estate at night
        • However, if Mari fears Itachi is constantly placing the Goketsu Estate under effective observation, it might be better to disguise themselves as civvies and escape that way.
        • Or take a chakra beast extermination missions and slip away then.
        • Mari is in command and has discretion based on the situation on the ground.
          • She has discretion to remove all traces of sensitive Jutsu Scrolls and seals from the Estate -- like WWB and MARS
      • Only once they're out of Leaf, and confident they weren't followed, Mari is to give Noburi a passphrase and he'll go to Toad for further instructions
        • Ask the Toad Sages if they'd help screen Noburi for genjutsu or hidden seals
      • Kei, do you want to attempt to extract Miyuki and Tenten? Mari can get them messages, and they can extract separately -- they're likely to be under less scrutiny.
    • Write our letters with Kei's assistance and send then via drop on the Seventh Path.
      • Sound entitled and deliquent in Naruto/Itachi's letter. We'll come home when we're Sage-Damned ready. There's a war on the Seventh Path and trap arrays need to be dismantled.
    • Discuss the precautions (oaths, restricted locations, Boss permissions) we're going to need to take on the Seventh Path to remove that as an avenue of communication from Leaf.
      • Begin setting them in motion as soon as the letter to Mari is sent.
      • Kei, will Pantsaa make this easy for you?
    • Work on Capacitor and then (time permitting) Icarus while waiting for the exfil to complete.
      • Use DoB, no prep, reroll for safety.
      • Read Sealing Notes with SC on rest days.

In the plan, have Mari contact Oro and tell him he needs to leave. Oro's researching dimensionalism and will need to bug out. He might as well do it with us. And it will help us escape.
 
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But we didn't? You do understand that right? That's what I keep saying? Name me a weapon that we've built that could kill an Akatsuki member. Or even come close. We've done nothing of that sort! We've basically just goofed around with time sealing runes, some force domes, etc. Just because Naruto told us to build weapons doesn't mean we did! We didn't!

Dude, no amount of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "Well technically we haven't broken the deal yet, even though we were intending to!" is going to fly here.

Most importantly nobody involved with this mission can walk up to the guy with a straight face and go "Yeah we weren't doing anything that's going to harm you guys or fuck with your goals!". They have all been on the exact same page since day one:

"Why?" Kei asked, one eyebrow rising. "What good is a light source that sheds light one cannot see?"

Both Hazōs shrugged.

"Dunno," said Prime. "Still, we're looking for ways to kill some of the most unkillable people on the planet. The usual suspects aren't going to cut it—I can't just make a faster rock or a bigger fireball. We need weird stuff that they won't see coming and that normal defenses don't apply against. Weird light was the first thing that came to mind. Maybe it helps and maybe it doesn't, but we have to try something."


Hazō shook his head. "Akatsuki is on the cusp of bringing Pain back. I don't know how many months we have until that happens, but if it happens, the whole Human Path could be lost. I just can't afford to spend hours every day scouting on the Seventh Path. Speaking of which, my assignment's changed. The Hokage has taken charge of the situation and given me an actual order: to build weapons to kill Akatsuki."

"If I recall, this is done at no small risk to himself, correct?" Cannai asked. "If Akatsuki discovers that your packleader is actively opposing them rather than merely allowing you to do so by oversight, based on the scant impressions I have received from you, I do not think Akatsuki would take it kindly."

"That sounds right. Either way, I need to figure out a way to kill some of the strongest ninja in the Elemental Nations."

"I know it's dangerous. I've been hesitating. But still, looking at my other research, it's not like there aren't plenty of other ways to destroy a city, and runes aren't going to proliferate the way anybody with Fire Element affinity could learn Elemental Mastery.

"More importantly, think about what it would mean. The summoners could reverse-summon if they were fast enough, and Orochimaru's dossier suggests that Konan might make it. But Sasori? Deidara? Hidan? Half of Akatsuki gone. Nothing but dust.


"But you're my sanity checker. Frankly, all things considered, there's nobody whose feedback matters more." Admittedly, that was out of the tiny handful of people who even knew about Elemental Mastery. "What do you think?"

"The nomenclature pattern is clear, thank you. I note that the purpose of this expedition is weapons research. I suppose the temporal rune is intended to give you more time for researching the things that will actually be fit for purpose?"

"Exactly! Plus, they'll be even more useful once we've dealt with Akatsuki. Free training time that no one else gets except the Gōketsu and their allies."

As Kagome-sensei started to talk about his latest adjustment of the trap arrays to account for the Scenery Clone and Silence Shell seals, even the growing brightness of dawn couldn't keep Hazou's tired mind from wandering. He'd been working day and night on seals and runes of every type to try to find one that could credibly oppose Akatsuki, to little avail.

(And this is just what I could find skimming across a few of the first chapters of this arc.)

You're demonstrably wrong about this, why are you still arguing the point?
 
Dude, no amount of sticking your fingers in your ears and going "Well technically we haven't broken the deal yet, even though we were intending to!" is going to fly here.

Most importantly nobody involved with this mission can walk up to the guy with a straight face and go "Yeah we weren't doing anything that's going to harm you guys or fuck with your goals!". They have all been on the exact same page since day one:
Intent isn't enough? Itachi burst into our doors asking if we did Dimensionalism research. We didn't. Itachi's can ask if we've done anything against their direct interests. We can say we haven't. Have we built any extreme weapons that can kill them? We haven't? This is following the deal? Daydreaming about how we're gonna slip the lease in the future is not breaking the deal? Shit talking Akasuki behind their back and saying what a big bad seal researcher we are and how we're totally gonna pwn them later, just you wait, isn't breaking the deal?

You really think Itachi's expecting us to not talk bad about him behind his back? Or for Hazo's when Itachi's not around, to tell everyone, Hazo can totally save everyone, just you wait, don't you worry guys, Hazo's got this. (Just ignore that we haven't done anything, of course)

It's pump up chicken talk.


Also, only Hazo's coming home. The rest our continuing on the research trip. (Leaf's entire operations can't be stopped ever time Itachi shows up. That would be pretty unreasonable.)
 
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Intent isn't enough?
This isn't a modern court of law or even an in-setting court of law. This is a psychopath evaluating whether or not we're a threat and whether or not he has to murder us and stick our head on a pike in the village square.

The literal truth? Does. Not. Matter.
 
Is Itachi going to notice we are concealing information about our research trip and then genjutsu Hazou into insanity if he refuses to tell Itachi everything?

Yes

Next question.
 
The literal truth? Does. Not. Matter.
Once again. You guys seem to be dead set on being pretty doomer.

If your position is that Itachi's gonna kill Hazo regardless of the TRUTH, than sure whatever. Itachi kills everyone, oh, no, big bad crazy, so scary.

But I'm asking you. Can you give me how Hazo could have complied with Itachi's deal without being hanged for treason?
Why would Itachi make a deal that (according to you) Hazo literally can't comply with, regardless of what he does, and then just murder him a few months later, regardless?

It doesn't make any sense. Itachi could have chopped off our hands a few months ago if he was all that worried about us researching stuff. Or killed us. Or tortured us on the spot right there and then. But he didn't.



Why do you think that is? Why would Itachi go the extra mile? Maaaaybe, and just maaabye it's because if Hazo doesn't research dimensionalism, and doesn't build any super weapons, Itachi's pretty chill with Hazo's actions? Like the deal said?
 
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I'm asking you. Can you give me how Hazo could have complied with Itachi's deal without being hanged for treason?
Why would Itachi make a deal that (according to you) Hazo literally can't comply with, regardless of what he does, and then just murder him a few months later, regardless?

Why the hell do you think whether or not we can comply with the demands without dying or committing treason is an issue for Itachi here?

ITACHI: Alright, here is the deal.
HAZOU: What if I need to commit treason or die to follow this?
ITACHI: Then either you commit treason, you die, or you die, Gouketsu.
HAZOU: This doesn't seem like a fair deal.
ITACHI: You think I care about being fair?
 
It doesn't make any sense. Itachi could have chopped off our hands a few months ago if he was all that worried about us researching stuff. Or killed us. Or tortured us on the spot right there and then. But he didn't.
He was pretty clear about why. He more or less said, "If you weren't The Uplift Guy you wouldn't be breathing right now. So long as you only keep pursuing that we'll leave you alone." Hazou is not doing any Uplift right now, he's cooking up ways to kill more of the Akatsuki, literally the exact behavior Itachi said would get him killed. I very much doubt Itachi is going to be convinced by "Well, I haven't made any ways to kill you yet."

A very cursory investigation by Itachi would reveal Hazou's been gone for months. He's going to grill Hazou on exactly why. Best case scenario, Hazou admits he hasn't yet made anything that can kill them, only received orders to do so. Which fucks Naruto anyways, and still does not save Hazou.
 
My plan now has a Declare in it as per @Noumero's and @Shrooms' comments.
And here's a version of the edits I made for Sir Stompy, with one major change: I explicitly ask whether exfiltrating the rest of Team Uplift is a good idea. Functionally the rest of the plan behaves as though we decide to do this, but I wanted to make 100% sure with Kei that this isn't going to have catastrophic and/or unexpected consequences.

[X] Action Plan: To Out Or Not To Out
Word Count: 291
  • Sanity-check/optimize with Kei/Kagome.
  • Discuss Naruto's orders.
    • We're actually going missing.
    • Hazou wants to exfiltrate Mari, Noburi, and Yuno: Hazou's research is massively slower without Noburi, and we don't want them as Itachi's hostages.
      • Kei, are we mistaken about our priors? Will they be safe, even after we go missing?
      • Should we extract Miyuki and Tenten? Mari can get them messages, and they can extract separately -- they're likely to be under less scrutiny.
    • Hazou suggests a dead drop letter for Noburi -- make it seem like we're moving around too much to talk. Include:
      • Copied lists of seals/seal notes from our research. Make it haphazardly-put together -- write on the move if viable.
        • Officially, this is insurance if we die en route: our research can live on.
        • Unofficially, this is if Itachi shows up: if he reads our research it'll provide weak evidence we're not doing rift research.
        • In reality, Hazou will accidentally slip in some exfiltration-related seals (Skywalkers, Darkness Domes...) he thinks will help Mari.
      • A separate letter for Mari to read, in-line with what we've written to her previously. Include (-1FP) a pre-arranged "GTFO of Leaf" codeword in the letter.
    • Let Mari take point on exfiltration. Once they've escaped, let Noburi contact us on the Seventh Path; we'll go from there.
    • Set up precautions (oaths, restricted locations, Boss permissions) to remove the Seventh Path as an avenue of communication from Leaf as soon as we send the dead drop letter.
      • Kei, will Pantsaa make this easy for you?
  • Work on Capacitor and then (time permitting) Icarus while waiting for the exfil to complete.
    • Use DoB, no prep, reroll for safety.
    • Read Sealing Notes with SCs on rest days.
  • Misc:
    • Test whether Instant Darkness seals can bolster Narajutsu with Snowflake.
 
[X] Action Plan: To Out Or Not To Out

---

Hmm... Hypothetically, if Itachi had genjutsu'd one of us, what would their arguments look like?
 
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