Ah yes, pulling the "safe genie" gambit with a guy who dissects people while they're still alive. I see no way this can backfire.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
Ignoring stagnancy, Hazo is:
At 10 XP/day, ignoring stagnancy, that gives us about year before we have everything lined up perfectly, and I'm not actually sure what to do with all that time. The hivemind has talked a lot about Hazo's "S-rank Sealing" but we've seen that Research Sealmastery is by construction not going to make Hazo relevant to S-rank combat without some additional sauce like Minatoseals or Bioseals.
A consensus seems to be growing that both Necromancy and Runemastery are OPSEC risks while we're in Leaf, which puts us in a weird holding pattern. I don't think a year of paper Seal Research is enough to defeat Akatsuki. And imo starting Necromancy a year late means we are not meaningfully participating in the Race. (Of course, nobody has proposed that we need every one of those build-details before we leave to start Dimensionalism research again, but simple inertia is enough to string us along one update after another as the benefits to departing early quietly dwindle to nothing.)
I am looking at the game state and starting to think that our current definition of a 'Necromancy win' might not be feasible for Hazo.
- about 6 months away from build unfuckery
- 3 months from TH stunt availability
- 3 weeks from Consequence recovery
- ? weeks from Akatsuki Pinata pt 2
- ~3560 XP Away from the wishlist of {Calig 47, PS 26, TH 10, and _Bomb's Build Unfuckery Plan}
At 10 XP/day, ignoring stagnancy, that gives us about year before we have everything lined up perfectly, and I'm not actually sure what to do with all that time. The hivemind has talked a lot about Hazo's "S-rank Sealing" but we've seen that Research Sealmastery is by construction not going to make Hazo relevant to S-rank combat without some additional sauce like Minatoseals or Bioseals.
A consensus seems to be growing that both Necromancy and Runemastery are OPSEC risks while we're in Leaf, which puts us in a weird holding pattern. I don't think a year of paper Seal Research is enough to defeat Akatsuki. And imo starting Necromancy a year late means we are not meaningfully participating in the Race. (Of course, nobody has proposed that we need every one of those build-details before we leave to start Dimensionalism research again, but simple inertia is enough to string us along one update after another as the benefits to departing early quietly dwindle to nothing.)
I am looking at the game state and starting to think that our current definition of a 'Necromancy win' might not be feasible for Hazo.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I think that a lot of what we're gonna be able to do depends on how able we are to make runes, and how quickly we can resolve the minatoseals.
Almost sounds like too much XP to spend on things that don't help. I will note the Bomb's plan only spends 702 XP on skills that have meaningful anti-Akatsuki utility (PS 11 -> 26, Callig 42 -> 45). Even with TH 10 + Stunt its less than 1000 XP. Where does the remaining ~2600 XP go? Well, into punching and a new element. Athletics/Sub also, which is fine but mostly into the former.
Thing is, we don't need to punch like a taijutsu jounin. We just need to be able to survive a fight and let Runes, Seals and Summons do the rest. Jounin Taijutsu prowess is never going to make a difference in S-rank fights and getting there costs not just a significant portion of the XP in that build plan - but a large majority of it, between skills and lightning element and stuff. Plus we shouldn't ever level both Athletics and Taji, we could just pick up Jounin Combat Training once we hit Athletics 60 if we really wanted to do that and its way cheaper to get high pyramids by not spending 1000 XP on a new Element where really its just an Athletics bonus that we want from it that is cheaper to just level the skill for.
I have a few choice words for people who believe in making a research sealmaster rely on punching demigods point blank and ignoring his actual strengths, when the literal fate of the world rests on his Sealing progress and continued survival, and these words are - Maybe don't. We have other people who can punch better than the end result now, let alone a year from now. We don't have another Hazou.
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[X] [Hazo Training] Skills that matter
Primordial Sealing 11 -> 17 (184 XP)
We will not work on RRBs before our Severe heals and that's three weeks away optimistically. This means we can fit Calligraphy 42 -> 45 (132 XP) with the XP for that time period alone and thus research them safely, so there is no need to buy levels in it now. Similarly, TH is months away. We currently have 183 XP so we certainly will have 184 by the next update and that affords us PS 17.
We are currently 736/936 spent XP away from 15000/15200 where stagnation starts and begins to hurt, respectively. I believe we should aim for :
Step 1 (792 XP) : Optimal combat prowess for unstagnating (RRBs, Ath 39, Sub 25) while advancing as a Runesmith.
Callig 45 + PS 24 = 600 XP
Athl 39 + Sub 25 = 192 XP
Step 2 : (360 XP) : TH to go missing. We only need 979 XP more than we have to finish this. At ~10 XP/day, thats 3 months and a week.
TH Stunt = 250 XP
TH 10 = 110 XP
Step 3 (687 XP) : Low Jounin Evasion (if counting RRBs) + soft-capping PS.
Athl 39 -> 49, Sub 25 -> 30 = 585 XP
PS 24 -> 26 = 102 XP
Personally I would want to get Callig 45 and PS 20 (Eff. 45 AB 3, Prep 51, +3 Dice + Double Invoke = TN 60) by the time our Consequence clears. We could then shore up Athletics and Substitution before attempting combat unstagnation and then proceeding with TH, whereupon we would work on unfucking our combat survivability to a low jounin level so that we don't die immediately. Hopefully.
Primordial Sealing 11 -> 17 (184 XP)
We will not work on RRBs before our Severe heals and that's three weeks away optimistically. This means we can fit Calligraphy 42 -> 45 (132 XP) with the XP for that time period alone and thus research them safely, so there is no need to buy levels in it now. Similarly, TH is months away. We currently have 183 XP so we certainly will have 184 by the next update and that affords us PS 17.
We are currently 736/936 spent XP away from 15000/15200 where stagnation starts and begins to hurt, respectively. I believe we should aim for :
Step 1 (792 XP) : Optimal combat prowess for unstagnating (RRBs, Ath 39, Sub 25) while advancing as a Runesmith.
Callig 45 + PS 24 = 600 XP
Athl 39 + Sub 25 = 192 XP
Step 2 : (360 XP) : TH to go missing. We only need 979 XP more than we have to finish this. At ~10 XP/day, thats 3 months and a week.
TH Stunt = 250 XP
TH 10 = 110 XP
Step 3 (687 XP) : Low Jounin Evasion (if counting RRBs) + soft-capping PS.
Athl 39 -> 49, Sub 25 -> 30 = 585 XP
PS 24 -> 26 = 102 XP
Personally I would want to get Callig 45 and PS 20 (Eff. 45 AB 3, Prep 51, +3 Dice + Double Invoke = TN 60) by the time our Consequence clears. We could then shore up Athletics and Substitution before attempting combat unstagnation and then proceeding with TH, whereupon we would work on unfucking our combat survivability to a low jounin level so that we don't die immediately. Hopefully.
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- Location
- USA
Seems fine to me.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I don't disagree with your overall point here -- I do disagree that we need some amount of offensive punch personally, just to be able to reasonably unstagnate. That doesn't involve, IMO, 3K XP, though. More to the tune of the same amount as is spent on research.
Why is this meeting the entire team? I don't think that this is the best way to approach Nobs. Having Mari do it in private would probably be more effective. For one, Yuno is going to be a huge obstacle here.
Also IIRC, we didn't ask Nobs to go under Oro's knife. That actually is crazy. So admitting we did that feels like a self own.
My suggestions for how to run this scene below, I'll likely incorporate it into my plan if you don't like.
- Sanity check with Kei/Mari
- Make sure that Hazou is being reasonable here. If Mari and Kei think Noburi is right that this in insane, don't proceed.
- Have Mari approach Noburi and explain
- Asking Noburi to get examined by Oro is a lot and Hazou screwed it up.
- That said, Hazou isn't crazy here
- Explain what the expected jutsu would be (Chakra Scalpels through Water Whip).
- Alternatively...
- Would Noburi be okay with Kabuto doing the exam instead?
- If he's unconvinced, Kabuto has done past examinations of your bloodline. He's very likely shared his findings with Orochimaru.
- If not, ask Noburi to try to figure out how to do so himself.
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Sure - we can have Summons cover offense short term though, as long as we can survive. Maybe even the mid-term, if we contract some stronger Dogs (or Cannai himself). Ultimately though, yeah, we will need to shore up our offense but on our list of priorities it comes dead last after surviving and research ability because Runes/Seals/Summons/allies can provide all the offense we need in planned engagements and so long as we can escape all the unplanned ones alive...
In the longer term... we could level Geode Coffin which is still offensively solid for the investment required, what's with being half cost and Elemental Stunts existing on top. It has synergy with Athletics in that as long as we can survive round 1 we can optimally use it as both a high durability safe bunker and a subsequently free action, multi-mode aoe attack. It even provides an evasion bonus if its broken.
A boring alternative would be buying the Jounin Combat Training stunt once we hit Athletics 60 to get our Taijutsu up to par and with RRBs etc that would be enough, too. But that'd take a long while to reach and I don't think putting more hands in the Melee Combat basket is ideal, we already have that covered as a team and Hazou will never be able to scale as well as say, Yuno does with her combat monofocus build and SoTS.
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Don't think we even strictly need buffs for it to make it worth it, rather we would double line it with an Earth Attack to use that one as the main offense if we went that route - because it itself acts as a buff for other earth jutsu. By the time we can get to it, we will be able to TH a suitable technique ourselves. But even GC itself - 2 AB is a hefty bonus when its halfcost up to level 50 and we have a sizeable chakra boost.
Crucially, it can hit for respectable numbers much sooner than Taij would, XP-wise - all while being an insanely versatile technique. Elemental Stunts also make specializing into the Earth Element quite viable because they save us from needing to level most techniques into upper pyramid tiers. There are probably ways to use Seals and Runes to boost Earth techs, too, much like RRBs help Taij and Athletics.
For example, we could pursue Earth Dragon Bullet, functioning just like WDB but being an Earth Technique and benefitting from the GC boost. That would be extremely strong by forcing a million checks (Substitution is not a valid defense after one or two) which are all boosted up high.
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Ah, my bad.
On the topic of Hazou's offense, I greatly favour Geode Coffin. Not necessarily because the jutsu itself is great offensively - its merely passable at that, but it has its versatile shaenigans and doubles as an extremely durable bunker, earth buff, a way to kill off anyone inside and an Athletics boost against outside attacks for one roll if it is broken. Combined with being half-cost and elemental stunts, this has crazy potential.
A combination of two half-cost Earth Ninjutsu would let us punch well above and beyond any Taijutsu investment which I will attempt to illustrate here. For example, pyramid supports aside, two Level 40 Half-Cost Ninjutsu only cost 469 XP total vs 1950 XP for Taijutsu 59 and Strength of the Storm (Lightning), which I posit would still offer inferior offense despite costing 416% as much and taking a 50 pyramid slot!
Why? Well, imagine we hack in Earth Dragon Bullet as our attack, identical to WDB but an Earth jutsu. Both it and GC would benefit from Elemental Stunts. With Earthshaping 50, GC 40 and EDB 40, or 2 Half-Cost Level 40 Skills - we would qualify for Elemental Journeyman, as below:
Elemental Journeyman (50 XP)
Prerequisites: 3x techniques above level 40 or above in your chosen element.
Designate your highest leveled ninjutsu in your chosen Element as Primary. Add a bonus of +¼ Primary when making rolls with other ninjutsu in the Element, capped by your level in Primary. This does not affect AB. Elemental Advantage with this element adds +3*AB instead of +AB.
The 519 XP combination of two half-cost Level 40 Ninjutsu (234.5 XP each) and Elemental Journeyman Stunt (50 XP) would give us :
Geode Coffin 40
Durability 7 (TN 70, Tolerance 91), Evasion Roll Boost if Broken = +10 (2 AB).
Pre-Invokes Roll : 50 (GC + Elemental Journeyman) + 10 (2 AB) + 6 (Boost) = 66 or 81 with Elemental Advantage, Weapons : 2.
The Durability is enough to reliably survive low jounin hits by GC 40. The Roll itself is modest but if the target cannot spare a Substitution and has no booster active, its still enough to hit low jounin (Ath 60 Boost 7) - or elite jounin (Ath 70 Boost 8) with ele advantage in that circumstance - and as an aoe Free Action Attack (its a secondary part of what we would be using the technique for) it would often face up against exhausted Substitutions due to action economy. The Weapon Rating means it hurts people even if it barely grazes them and if we capture anyone inside, we can easily kill them with crushing force.
Earth Dragon Bullet 40
Pre-Invokes Roll : 50 (EDB + Elemental Journeyman) + 5 (AB) + 10 (Geode Coffin 2 AB) + 6 (Boost) = 71 or 86 with Elemental Advantage.
There are 5 Attacks! Each hits an entire Melee Range, so potentially multiple targets. Substitution can only be used up to twice per Round so it does not apply to three of those and the high attack count inevitably means some will get good dice on top. All in all, with most jounin having Sub 40 or so, its likely to inflict four times as much Stress as a single Attack : 91 (106 with Ele Advantage). This is a proper Jounin killer.
The 1950 XP combination of Taijutsu 59 (950 XP) and Strength of the Storm 30 (1000 XP via Element), with RRBs, would give us :
Taijutsu 59 Strength of the Storm 30
Pre-Invokes Roll : 59 (Taijutsu) + 12 (RRB) + 12 (SoTS, 3 tags) + 7 (Boost) = 90, or 94 if we want to hurt ourselves by using 4 tags.
As mentioned before, one 90 attack is far inferior to 5 x 71 and 1 x 66 (or 5 x 86, 1 x 81 with Elemental Advantage) because the latter negate Substitution and similar, which at Level 40 account for a +20 evasion bonus, which if you add that it exactly crosses the numerical gulf - but the techs hit 6 times rather than once and offer tons of versatility. And its 3.76 times cheaper to go for the above Earth Ninjutsu, than the Taij setup.
A combination of two half-cost Earth Ninjutsu would let us punch well above and beyond any Taijutsu investment which I will attempt to illustrate here. For example, pyramid supports aside, two Level 40 Half-Cost Ninjutsu only cost 469 XP total vs 1950 XP for Taijutsu 59 and Strength of the Storm (Lightning), which I posit would still offer inferior offense despite costing 416% as much and taking a 50 pyramid slot!
Why? Well, imagine we hack in Earth Dragon Bullet as our attack, identical to WDB but an Earth jutsu. Both it and GC would benefit from Elemental Stunts. With Earthshaping 50, GC 40 and EDB 40, or 2 Half-Cost Level 40 Skills - we would qualify for Elemental Journeyman, as below:
Elemental Journeyman (50 XP)
Prerequisites: 3x techniques above level 40 or above in your chosen element.
Designate your highest leveled ninjutsu in your chosen Element as Primary. Add a bonus of +¼ Primary when making rolls with other ninjutsu in the Element, capped by your level in Primary. This does not affect AB. Elemental Advantage with this element adds +3*AB instead of +AB.
The user causes a clear quartz geode to erupt around a target in range, defending the user against attack, trapping an enemy, or creating a threat for later. The geode can only emerge from the ground, meaning it generally cannot be used in midair, indoors, etc.
Geode Coffin rolls Level + 2 x Effect vs Athletics and counts as Weapons : 2.
While the user is within the geode, they gain a 2*(Effect) bonus to other Earth Element ninjutsu.
After formation, the geode stabilizes for a round. On the round after it was cast, the user gains the ability to destroy the geode as a free action on anyone's turn. The user may crush the geode inward, making an attack against (⅓ Athletics) for anyone trapped inside (non-conventional defenses, like Geode Coffin itself, may roll at their full level). Alternatively, the user may explode the geode into stone shards, attacking everyone in the geode's zone that isn't trapped within the geode. This attack is made at Geode Coffin + 2*(Effect) or the same roll as that formed the Geode Coffin. AoE ninjutsu do not affect targets within the geode until the geode is broken. If an AoE ninjutsu breaks the geode, targets within the geode can dodge the ninjutsu with a bonus of 2*(Effect) on their dodge roll. The geode extends underground, and blocks Earth Element tunneling except by the caster. The caster may freely cast Earth Element techniques outside the geode while trapped within. Other techniques are blocked by the geode.
Geode Coffin rolls Level + 2 x Effect vs Athletics and counts as Weapons : 2.
While the user is within the geode, they gain a 2*(Effect) bonus to other Earth Element ninjutsu.
After formation, the geode stabilizes for a round. On the round after it was cast, the user gains the ability to destroy the geode as a free action on anyone's turn. The user may crush the geode inward, making an attack against (⅓ Athletics) for anyone trapped inside (non-conventional defenses, like Geode Coffin itself, may roll at their full level). Alternatively, the user may explode the geode into stone shards, attacking everyone in the geode's zone that isn't trapped within the geode. This attack is made at Geode Coffin + 2*(Effect) or the same roll as that formed the Geode Coffin. AoE ninjutsu do not affect targets within the geode until the geode is broken. If an AoE ninjutsu breaks the geode, targets within the geode can dodge the ninjutsu with a bonus of 2*(Effect) on their dodge roll. The geode extends underground, and blocks Earth Element tunneling except by the caster. The caster may freely cast Earth Element techniques outside the geode while trapped within. Other techniques are blocked by the geode.
The user conjures a massive crystalline dragon which swallows multiple enemies before crushing them into the ground with stunning force. The user designates a priority queue of targets. The dragon will go through them in order, moving between zones if necessary, for up to Effect attacks before moving to a final destination within range and forcefully depositing its victims there. A target can appear in the queue multiple times meaning that ["Alice", "Alice", "Bill", "Tom", "Tom", "Tom"] is legal. Once the dragon hits a target, subsequent instances of that target are ignored. The dragon ignores most zone Borders but can only change Zones (Effect x 1.5) times during its existence.
For example, an Effect:6 dragon would make up to 6 attacks and perform up to 9 Zone changes. For each target, the dragon makes an Attack of (EDB Level + EDB Aspect Bonus) vs Athletics vs the target and everyone in melee range of them. (This represents the dragon's size, so it only counts as one attack regardless of the number of people affected.) Whoever fails is swept up into the dragon's maw. Once the dragon has exhausted its targets or its number of attacks it moves to the designated final zone and and slams into the ground.
For example, an Effect:6 dragon would make up to 6 attacks and perform up to 9 Zone changes. For each target, the dragon makes an Attack of (EDB Level + EDB Aspect Bonus) vs Athletics vs the target and everyone in melee range of them. (This represents the dragon's size, so it only counts as one attack regardless of the number of people affected.) Whoever fails is swept up into the dragon's maw. Once the dragon has exhausted its targets or its number of attacks it moves to the designated final zone and and slams into the ground.
The 519 XP combination of two half-cost Level 40 Ninjutsu (234.5 XP each) and Elemental Journeyman Stunt (50 XP) would give us :
Geode Coffin 40
Durability 7 (TN 70, Tolerance 91), Evasion Roll Boost if Broken = +10 (2 AB).
Pre-Invokes Roll : 50 (GC + Elemental Journeyman) + 10 (2 AB) + 6 (Boost) = 66 or 81 with Elemental Advantage, Weapons : 2.
The Durability is enough to reliably survive low jounin hits by GC 40. The Roll itself is modest but if the target cannot spare a Substitution and has no booster active, its still enough to hit low jounin (Ath 60 Boost 7) - or elite jounin (Ath 70 Boost 8) with ele advantage in that circumstance - and as an aoe Free Action Attack (its a secondary part of what we would be using the technique for) it would often face up against exhausted Substitutions due to action economy. The Weapon Rating means it hurts people even if it barely grazes them and if we capture anyone inside, we can easily kill them with crushing force.
Earth Dragon Bullet 40
Pre-Invokes Roll : 50 (EDB + Elemental Journeyman) + 5 (AB) + 10 (Geode Coffin 2 AB) + 6 (Boost) = 71 or 86 with Elemental Advantage.
There are 5 Attacks! Each hits an entire Melee Range, so potentially multiple targets. Substitution can only be used up to twice per Round so it does not apply to three of those and the high attack count inevitably means some will get good dice on top. All in all, with most jounin having Sub 40 or so, its likely to inflict four times as much Stress as a single Attack : 91 (106 with Ele Advantage). This is a proper Jounin killer.
The 1950 XP combination of Taijutsu 59 (950 XP) and Strength of the Storm 30 (1000 XP via Element), with RRBs, would give us :
Taijutsu 59 Strength of the Storm 30
Pre-Invokes Roll : 59 (Taijutsu) + 12 (RRB) + 12 (SoTS, 3 tags) + 7 (Boost) = 90, or 94 if we want to hurt ourselves by using 4 tags.
As mentioned before, one 90 attack is far inferior to 5 x 71 and 1 x 66 (or 5 x 86, 1 x 81 with Elemental Advantage) because the latter negate Substitution and similar, which at Level 40 account for a +20 evasion bonus, which if you add that it exactly crosses the numerical gulf - but the techs hit 6 times rather than once and offer tons of versatility. And its 3.76 times cheaper to go for the above Earth Ninjutsu, than the Taij setup.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Added this because you reminded me: "EDIT: And non-diegetic things like training plans etc"
Done.
For one thing, they pee and poop a lot.
I probably referred to her as a chūnin in an update at some point because I'm dumb. She has been shown to have a jōnin aura so it's safe to assume she is a jōnin.
Yes you did. Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
Where is the knife here? We proposed an examination, not Oro cutting into Nobs. Nobs just assumed we meant that. We literally never said it.
Am I missing something? Is the implication that he's going to have to cut Nobs up to do this? Examination does not have connotations of surgery IMO.
Honestly, with the above math working out as it does and if we can get Reo to hack Earth Dragon Bullet or similar, I could be convinced to go straight to Callig 45 Ath 39 Sub 25 GC 40 EDB 40 + Elemental Journeyman and leave Primordial Sealing for later - and I really want Primordial Sealing.
The whole package only costs a mere 843 XP - enough that we could get it all before combat stagnation and it would let us beat up Jounin in combat rather reliably... we would need to think about making it into a valid pyramid though.
Long-term, we could aim at something like (bolded would be levelling) :
This at minimum only actually costs 1943.5 XP in its entirety (572 for Athletics 50, 234 for GC 40, 234.5 for EDB 40, 255 for Sub 30, 288 for PS 20 and 360 for TH 10 + Stunt with the rest being lootbox) which is far less than the Bomb's build and it would give us insane combat power. We could even get Athletics 60+ if we wanted, straight from there. Or GC/Earthshaping or anything else, the slot is near-free to grab.
Its just 1769.5 XP from now (2546.5 if we want Ath 59, PS 26) and it would give us an elite jounin's evasion thanks to RRBs and Athletics 59, Sub 30. We'd have GC 40 to control the field and defend against things that can't be dodged, no-selling Standard boosted low jounin attacks, or regular jounin if they don't Standard boost - and we would be rolling an Earth Dragon Bullet 40 at Base 50 (40 + 10 from Elemental Journeyman) + 5 (AB) + 10 (GC 2 AB) + 6 (Boost), which is 71 or 86 with Elemental Advantage, before FP/Invokes, for 5 Attack Rolls, so 3+ bypassing enemy Sub, which means at Sub 40 that's really the equivalent of 3+ Attacks for 91 / 106 each Round, before Geode Coffin itself is even taken into consideration.
The whole package only costs a mere 843 XP - enough that we could get it all before combat stagnation and it would let us beat up Jounin in combat rather reliably... we would need to think about making it into a valid pyramid though.
Long-term, we could aim at something like (bolded would be levelling) :
| 10-19 | 6 (Living Roots, Ghost Scales, PKH, MedKnow, Empathy, Stealth) |
| 20-29 | 5 (Primordial Sealing, Deceit, PEA, Presence, Rapport) |
| 30-39 | 5 (Substitution, TH, Alertness, CR, Physique) |
| 40-49 | 5 (GC, EDB, Calligraphy, Taijutsu, SC) |
| 50-59 | 3 (Athletics, Sealing, Earthshaping) |
| 60-69 | 1 (Resolve) |
This at minimum only actually costs 1943.5 XP in its entirety (572 for Athletics 50, 234 for GC 40, 234.5 for EDB 40, 255 for Sub 30, 288 for PS 20 and 360 for TH 10 + Stunt with the rest being lootbox) which is far less than the Bomb's build and it would give us insane combat power. We could even get Athletics 60+ if we wanted, straight from there. Or GC/Earthshaping or anything else, the slot is near-free to grab.
Its just 1769.5 XP from now (2546.5 if we want Ath 59, PS 26) and it would give us an elite jounin's evasion thanks to RRBs and Athletics 59, Sub 30. We'd have GC 40 to control the field and defend against things that can't be dodged, no-selling Standard boosted low jounin attacks, or regular jounin if they don't Standard boost - and we would be rolling an Earth Dragon Bullet 40 at Base 50 (40 + 10 from Elemental Journeyman) + 5 (AB) + 10 (GC 2 AB) + 6 (Boost), which is 71 or 86 with Elemental Advantage, before FP/Invokes, for 5 Attack Rolls, so 3+ bypassing enemy Sub, which means at Sub 40 that's really the equivalent of 3+ Attacks for 91 / 106 each Round, before Geode Coffin itself is even taken into consideration.
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- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Do we know if Mud Hut is a stunt or a leveled jutsu? Same for the fertility jutsu.
- Location
- Book Fort
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Mud Hut is an original jutsu that Reo made as a result of his apprenticeship. He tried to use MEW as a base, but MEW was too complex for him to work with, so Reo (seemingly) made his own from scratch.
And the Fertility Jutsu was donated during Asuma's Contest, so I'm assuming it's also a jutsu.
If nothing else, we try and level it, and then learn.
- Location
- Washington, USA
[X] Training Plan (Hazou): We're Taking These With Us
- Location
- U.S.
0. Sections
1. Abstract
2. Introduction to Chakra
3. Seals, Jutsu, and Runes
4. Chakra-mediated temperature manipulation
5. Origins and Elemental Mastery
6. Weaponization
7. Recreation: How
8. Recreation: Why
9. Pushing the Limit: Project Ice Cube
10. Project Ice Cube: Formation
11. Project Ice Cube: Stability, Defensive Strength
12. Project Ice Cube: Size
13. Project Ice Cube: Interior
14. Project Ice Cube: Offensive Use
15. Project Ice Cube: Use Cases
16. Project Ice Cube: Failure Modes
17. Conclusion
In this paper, we will cover the fundamentals of the Ice Cube, a s-class barrier rune with both defense, offensive, and destructive capabilities. The properties of such a rune will be derived from the fundamental properties of chakra and physical laws of nature. A path towards constructing this rune will be hypothesized, and possible uses will be considered.
It is well known that chakra is bullshit. Where the universe runs on firmly established and fundamentally inviolable rules, chakra is get-out-of-jail-free-card. Chakra has been proven to be capable of creating myriad effects ranging from matter-creation, to illusion, action-at-a-distance, 4-dimensional manipulation, and more. And all of this occurs at the whim of a substance with no concrete form, and following the conceptions of the human mind where the universe has otherwise proven apathetic.
Many of these effects could be explained by unseen outcomes; machinery squirreled away in unseen locations, matter and energy swapped from hiding places as needed. Machinating illusions that hide their inner workings from all at the same time as they deceive their target. All demonstrated chakra effects could be achieved if we assume there is more than meets the eye.
And yet, there is no evidence for these things. Chakra's secrets are as yet known to no one. It's deceptions, if any, are thorough. Whatever chakra may be, we have nothing more than speculation. And so, we must take it's capabilities at face value.
Before we continue, it is worth digressing to elaborate on the forms by which chakra is used. There are two relevant methods by which practical effects are deployed via chakra: seals, and jutsu.
Jutsus are akin to a learned skill. A typical human contains some amount of chakra, which is subject to a degree of conscious control much like a muscle. In those with a sufficient amount of chakra, they can use this conscious control to manipulate their internal chakra and, according to chakra's poorly-known rules, produce consistent and repeatable effects on the outside world. This effort consumes chakra from the individual's reserves.
Seals, on the other hand, are akin to a technological device. An individual known as a sealsmith paints a precise pattern onto a piece of paper using carefully-prepared ink in a process known as 'scribing'. They then 'infuse' the seal, pushing their chakra into this pattern. Done correctly, it produces a seal. At a later point, this seal can be activated by any of a variety of methods, at which point it uses the chakra in itself and the surrounding ambient environment to produce a chakra effect.
While similar on the surface, there are significant practical differences between these two strategies of using chakra.
Jutsu are generally safe, reliable, and capable. So long as a individual has sufficient chakra, they can cast any jutsu they know. Mistakes while casting a jutsu are rarely dangerous. New jutsu may significant effort to learn.
Seals, on the other hand, are best described as 'unsafe'. Sealing is remarkably dangerous, as a improperly created or damaged seal will produce a unpredictable, random effect. Much as most of the universe is deadly to humans except for the surface of a small sphere, most possible chakra effects are also highly dangerous. 'Sealing failures', as they are known, are one of the most dangerous chakra phenomena known. Both the creation of a known seal and the development of new ones are extremely dangerous and require a great deal of caution.
A jutsu is created or modified by a individual known as a Technique Hacker, who endures some personal risk from modifying the jutsu, but thereafter the jutsu can be learned and deployed by any number of individuals. However, the overall 'strength' of a jutsu is directly tied to a user's practice in using it, and especially 'strong' jutsu may additionally have large chakra costs or inherent downsides.
Seals, on the other hand, require minimal input from the user. Seals can potentially activate completely autonomously, and even manually-triggered seals require no particular skill or chakra expenditure from the user. Even the process of creating a seal requires minimal chakra. While the process of creating a seal is extremely difficult, using one is far easier than using a new jutsu, and the effect will be consistent between users.
Jutsu can generally make any effect that chakra can make, which is to say, any effect at all. However, the inherent 'safeness' of a jutsu is sometimes a downside, as certain dangerous effects can be desirable. Furthermore, the chakra cost of the effect varies significantly, and can be quite large in some cases. Technique hacking is described as a 'negotiation', 'convincing' chakra to produce a certain effect, with failure resulting in a mediocre product or harmful effects from the chakra.
Seals, on the other hand, have difficulty creating certain effects, particularly more conceptually complicated effects.Sealing is more akin to designing a technological device, creating a complicated effect from simple components and interactions. As such, the more complicated a desired effect, the more 'components' required, and so the greater the effort while designing and scribing the seal.
As a example, consider the common sterilization jutsu, a medical technique which removes microorganisms from human tissue without harming it. This effect is much more difficult to recreate via a seal. A simple explanation of this phenomena is that you can simply 'tell' chakra to sterilize a wound, and the resulting effect will emerge based on your conceptualization of the process. However, a sealsmith would have to more thoroughly understand the process to implement it. This affords more control, but also requires more effort; in the extreme case, you might have to describe a heuristic for identifying microorganisms and distinguishing them from those of human tissue, and then implement a process to remove or destroy them. A jutsu, on the other hand, will simply figure it out for itself.
Finally, there is the topic of Runes. Runes are a offshoot of sealing, and in most respects it is nearly identical. The major differences are that a rune is a 3d structure created in the interior of a rock, whereas a seal is a 2d structure created by ink on paper. Runes can produce more potent and complicated effects than a seal of equivalent difficulty. Notable downsides are the difficulty of learning to make runes, the scarcity of rock suitable to 'draw' a rune into, the increased potency of failures, and the immobility of infused runes due to poorly-understood chakra phenomena.
One effect of chakra in particular is relevant to this paper - area-of-effect chakra temperature manipulation, hereafter known as CTM. CTM is conceptually simple. First a region is defined in some reference frame, typically a non-inertial reference frame fixed relative to some physical object on the earth's surface. Next, the matter within is divided up according to human conceptual labels - broadly, into the 'environment' and 'not the environment'. Any matter which is 'environmental' is subject to CTM, and the remainder is untouched. Indirect effects resulting from normal, macro-scale physical interactions are unchanged.
'The environment' generally includes ambient air, any particulate matter or other substances mixed with the air, and possibly the outermost surfaces of objects where they contact the air. Any matter which does not clearly fit into this category is excluded, erring on the side of caution. Air in a person's lungs is excluded, even if it is connected by a contiguous line of gas to air that is subject to the effect during, for instance, inhalation. The insides of solid objects are excluded in all known examples. Large masses of liquid water are excluded, although mists or dew may be included.
Upon activation of CTM, the temperature of matter in 'the environment' is altered. After a short ramp up period lasting 'a few seconds', the temperature of this matter is held firmly at the specified temperature range, with no known method of altering it. The temperature alteration is 'real'; all normal macroscale physical effects occur from contact with this matter, save for the fact that any interaction which would alter the temperature of matter under the effect fails to alter said temperature. Phase changes can occur, and appear to occur instantly.
It is not known how CTM works at the microscale - no experiments have been done to observe exotic small-scale behavior, if any, and they are not feasible at this time. Obviously, temperature is a abstraction and not a fundamental property of matter, but all observation of behavior has occurred at scales where this abstraction holds.
CTM affects a strictly bounded area, and lasts for a certain number of minutes, according to typical human conception of both space and time. Behavior in un-intuitive spacetime has not been observed. CTM's region cannot overlap other regions of CTM. Nor can CTM affect a region where temperature variations due to a prior CTM still exist. It is not known what the exact properties of this limitation are.
As CTM is a chakra effect, it is safe to assume that some or all of these described behaviors can be altered. These alterations would occur according to the rules of chakra, which are poorly understood and beyond the scope of this paper. Several properties of CTM are known to be easily changed, and include: the duration, the temperature of the effect, and possibly the size of the region affected.
The first and only known example of CTM is a jutsu known as 'Elemental Mastery'. Elemental Mastery, or EM, originates from a village and culture known as Isan. Within Isan, it is regarded as a easily-learned utility jutsu, generally used to maintain comfortable temperatures for habitation.
The properties of EM are straightforward. EM, when cast, consumes the user's chakra and creates a enduring instance of CTM. Several properties of the CTM are determined by the properties of the cast. The location is determined by the caster, and can be anywhere within a maximum range determined by their expertise. The duration is likewise a fixed time determined by their expertise, beginning when they stop concentrating on the jutsu. Finally, the temperature of the effect is set by the caster, with a minimum and maximum again determined by their expertise in the jutsu.
Under typical circumstances, the AOE is around 40 feet, the duration is anywhere from ten minutes to many hours, and the temperature of the CTM depends on the initial ambient temperature, but can range over dozens or hundreds of degrees.
Currently, there are no known extant individuals who are capable of casting or teaching EM. The village and culture of Isan no longer exists, and all individuals known to be capable of casting EM are dead and are not currently revivable.
Chakra-Mediated Temperature, specifically in the form of Elemental Mastery, is infamous for its weaponization. Chakra follows some sort of internal rule, a effect of which is that destructive effects tend to be difficult to create in proportion to their destructiveness. However, CTM is not inherently destructive, and perhaps because of this it can affect a large area.
The most obvious case to weaponize it is to increase the temperature significantly, causing burns and fires within the effect. However, it is actually significantly more effective to decrease the temperature. Once the ambient temperature falls below the condensation point of the major components of air, ambient air will liquefy and reduce its volume to approximately one in one-thousand. This immediately creates a immense pressure differential, drawing more air into the AoE, which then itself liquifies. The net effect is to create tremendous, ongoing winds and a flood of cyrogenic fluid, resulting in massive destruction. The dangerous region of this is comparable to nuclear weapons, and it produces a distinctive storm cloud visible for many miles.
Due to the potency of this effect, this will be the focus of discussion on CTM for the duration of this paper. 'Intended' uses, such as for heating houses, will be disregarded.
The potent destructive capability of EM has resulted in it's elimination. All known sources have been destroyed and all known individuals who learned it are dead, generally with the intent of preventing the use or spread of the jutsu.
While Elemental Mastery is lost, as there are no remaining sources from which it could be learned, it is likely possible to recreate the Chakra-Mediated Temperature effect. The reasoning for this is simple; the original jutsu was of trivial difficulty to learn, and produced a relatively simple effect. The difficulty of a jutsu to learn vs create is correlated. And EM has to be created by someone, at some point. So it is most likely that either sealing or technique hacking could recreate the effect without much trouble.
Conceptually, the process of CTM is simple. The initial identification could be glossed as simply 'air that isn't inside something', and there are several extant seals that target specifically air such as Tunneler's Friend or Air Domes. The temperature modification has no direct analogue, but seals that manipulate kinetic properties of air such as Silence Mines also exist. And there are numerous examples of AOE effect seals.
More generally, chakra can do anything, and so seals can do anything. Seals have difficulty producing more complicated effects, but CTM is not a complicated effect. So it stands to reason that seals can recreate CTM.
At this point, you may wonder why we would bother to recreate such a extremely dangerous effect. With a destructive range measured in kilometers, it is nontrivial to even use without being killed, and it is wholly unsuitable to use near points of interest we wish to defend. Additionally, a great deal of effort was just expended to eliminate the EM jutsu, so recreating it might seem counterintuitive.
The simple answer is that it is sometimes useful to cause vast destruction, and that many of the downsides and dangers of EM are now gone and would not be present if it was recreated by us as a seal.
While CTM is unsuitable for use near friendly or neutrals, there are vast swathes of wilderness filled with only nature and deadly chakra beasts. Usage of CTM in these regions would be acceptable for achieving strategic goals, such as assassination of key targets. Furthermore, in the event that we need to inflict massive destruction or levy a credible threat as to such, CTM is one of the most potent, proven tools for doing so.
While EM was a proliferation risk, this was due to the ease of learning the jutsu and the degree to which knowledge of it had spread before anyone had learned of CTM's destructive capabilities. Now that EM is eliminated, these risks are gone, and recreation via a seal is not a notable proliferation risk so long as we ensure no one learns the seal from us. This is easily achieved via reasonable precautions.
Finally, there is the specific risk that usage of EM is traced back to Leaf, resulting in negative consequences due to the political landscape at the time of this writing. Its existence could be traced to the destruction of Isan by Leaf, or merely the fact that Leaf possesses a extremely potent WMD could cause problems.
However, I argue that this is a less serious risk for several reasons.
First, we have set a long term goal of killing Akatsuki, which will also destabilize AMITY regardless. As such, AMITY retaliation is not a long-term concern.
Second, our goal of killing Akatsuki will place Leaf in grave danger anyway. If our actions and capabilities are linked to Leaf, then Leaf suffer no matter the method we use.
Third, the specific form of CTM that this paper proposes is, to appearances, distinct from EM. This brings us to -
The effect of CTM at the liquefaction point is fairly well known; air liquifies, flows away, more air flows in, repeat. End result is a massive storm and destructive flood of not-water.
I propose that with a simple modification of CTM, the outcome will be substantially different, producing a barrier effect. Introducing: Project Ice Cube
The premise is simple. Take the CTM effect that results in liquefaction of air, and turn the temperature down further. To at least 50 kelvin or below. This result in the freezing of air.
Now, of course, this will not simply produce a ice cube immediately. The air still reduces in volume as it does with liquefaction, producing mach-speed winds. And the air freezes in-place, resulting in snow.
However, I argue that the net effect is that it grows a solid cube of air-ice within the interior of effect, which stabilizes after some time. This results in initially destructive wind, but develops a stable structure afterwards.
The most crucial aspect of Project: Ice Cube is it's formation. The differentiating factor between this and a CTM-Nuke is that the process stabilizes; instead of liquid billowing out of the region of effect, solid ice solidifies until it fills the entire AoE, effectively 'clogging' it and preventing further airflow.
The reasoning I give for this is as follows. First, the air, according to the properties of CTM, instantaneously goes from ambient temperature to freezing. This results in a extremely fine cloud of snow, perhaps even monomolecular at low enough temperatures, as kinetic energy is robbed from the molecules before they have a chance to hit each other and combine into larger pieces of ice. The net result is a extremely fast moving (it was formerly wind), extremely fine, intense spray, composed of a mixture of nitrogen/oxygen/argon/water/CO2/dust.
This is essentially a ideal substance for forming solid ice; while large solid objects do not tend to stick together due to small contact surfaces, non-matching shapes, impurities/oxide barriers, and incompatible chemistries, there are exceptions. Vacuum welding is a known phenomena where clean metal will weld together in the absence of air. Sputtering and PVT produce solid and well-adhered layers on objects by bombarding them with gaseous/plasma substances which solidify on contact. Frost is a well known phenomena where water vapor freezes directly onto solid objects, forming a well-adhered and in some cases thick layer of ice.
I think it will play out like this. The CTM effect activates; after a negligible ~2 second 'warm'up period, the air that was inside the effect is set to about 50 kelvin deposit into a solid, or hangs around, or something else. But it stops contributing to the pressure of the region, and so AoE can be described as instantly becoming a vacuum. All the major components of air will solidify under these conditions, (>99.997% by volume), so it is a near-perfect vacuum.
More air rushes in. This air likewise instantly drops below it's freezing point, while still moving at an extreme pace. The exact speed is nontrivial to calculate but is likely moving at ~mach 1. This onrushing air will either shoot into a opposing flow or the ground. If the effect is overlapping solid ground, such that there is no airflow in one direction, the overall momentum should be downward, and so I expect it all impacts the solid interior of the effect regardless of the intricacies of the flow.
In a linear flow, the mass flow per cross-sectional area is simply the density of the fluid, times the speed. So at mach 1 (343 m/s), and a air density of 1.3 kg/m^3, there will be about
LaTeX:
\[
343\frac{m}{s} * 1.3 \frac{kg}{m^3} = 446 \frac{kg}{\frac{m^2}{s}}
\]
From this, we can also calculate the force applied - in the worst case, all of that air comes to a complete stop upon impacting a object. This means that every second, across every square meter, a total of 446 kg which is moving at 343 m/s is being (de)accelerated to a standstill, and the object is experiencing a equal and opposite force. That is 446 kg * 343 m/s = 152,944 newtons, per m^2 (aka pascals). This is approximately 1.5x atmospheric pressure. While that doesn't sound like much, it's worth noting that atmospheric pressure is actually quite a lot, and there is no opposing force on the opposite side of a object to balance it out.
The AoE of CTM is spherical, so this is more complicated; near the edge of a sufficiently large sphere, the flow will be approximately linear, but near the center the flow would be (in the worst case) the sum total of all flow across the entire surface of the sphere. However, opposing flows will counteract, so for the purposes of force applied this would cancel out to some degree.
The solids within are likely a mixture of trees, dirt, grass, Akatsuki members, etc. When the inrushing impacts these solids, it will immediately frost onto their surface, and then frost onto the frosted ice. Air ice has a density of approximately 1 g/cm^3 (or 1 ton/m^3), so at a flow rate of 446 kg/s per square meter, you will get a minimum of 400cm of ice growth per second. Much more, for objects near the center of the AoE. This is to say, all debris inside are effectively instantly encased in solid air-ice. There will also be significant force inward, so dirt, trees, etc will tend to be blown inwards until they reach the center, where the momentum of all of the air flows averages out and crushes the ice-debris mixture into the ground.
This process will be extremely turbulent. Most likely, any solid objects are shredded to small pieces. However, the ice will likely remain intact, as even if the forces are sufficient to break apart pieces of it, there is a constant inrush of air that can serve to 'weld' it back together, and the net momentum of air flow dictates that everything is pushed away from the edges of the effect and towards the center regardless of how turbulent that center is.
As the frozen mass of air, dirt, trees, and shredded red robes grows in the center of the effect, it will eventually stabilize. Any empty space which intersects the AoE of the effect becomes a vacuum, but once the ice cube grows to the edge of the effect, it will no longer draw in more air, and the CTM effect will simply maintain the temperature of the frozen air such that it never melts.
For small AoEs, the final result will be a half-sphere of air-ice the size of the effect, while for larger effects I suspect it will produce a mound. This is because a sufficiently large mass of frozen air will not be structurally stable, and sections will break off or the base will crumble and push outward. I find it unlikely that this will result in instability that causes the effect to be continuous a-la the CTM-Nuke; at most, it should have occasional flare-ups where enough air-ice from the exterior melts, and then a shift occurs and more air must freeze onto the top of the mound.
In either case, this mass of ice is significantly resistant to damage. In the hypothetical case where a crack is instantly formed, dividing it in half, there is still the full force of atmospheric pressure holding the halves together. Unlike a conventional solid, the interior is intrinsically either a solid or a vacuum - gaseous air cannot exist within the interior, so air cannot flow into a crack and allow the pieces to separate. Any air that does flow into a crack will simply serve to weld it together, and the interior will likely near-instantly vacuum-weld together due to the strong forces and alike substances.
In the case of explosions or fire techniques, such as Amaterasu, the effects get... flashy. I am not sure how chakra heating will interact with chakra freezing, but assuming the former overwhelms the latter, you will get a vapor explosion. Afterwards, you get a implosion, as that damaged region self-heals, new air rushing in to form new ice. If you're close, or the damage is large, this could be quite dangerous. As such, the technique could be called both ablative and self-healing - damage to it will reactively damage the surroundings, and then repair itself in the absence of interference. The greater the damage done, the greater the reaction. And any damage that doesn't pierce through to the core will quickly repair itself given a growth rate of 400+cm per second.
The obvious solutions - tunnel through it, or under it, are nearly impossible. The interior is intrinsically a vacuum - any air subject to the AoE will freeze solid. Tunnelers would suffocate without extreme precautions, and would be forced to tunnel through a vacuum or utilize constant heating techniques to overcome the effect. Tunneling under it encounters the same issues.
Given the immense repair rate of the dome, the fundamentally ordinary matter making it up, and the destructive outcome of attempting to breach it, this is a very effective defense. It is not a purely chakra barrier that could be bypassed or interrupted, it is simply ice held together by a exotic effect. It cannot be easily attacked, as it repairs itself and punishes attackers. It is resistant to tunneling be it through or over. It is likely that you would need specialized air or spacetime techniques to enter the interior, or very powerful piercing attacks that could hit the core from the outside, and even then the mass of air is still there and will pose a obstacle or danger to attackers.
Now we must ask, how large is this effect? This is much less clear.
The original EM covered 1 zone, which is not a constant unit of measurement. It varies by circumstance, as it is a measurement used to describe movement during combat. In the open, it would be approximately 30 meters across, and that is the figure we will use henceforth.
If we recreate the effect with this range, this would be significantly larger than a air dome, and thicker. A air dome is a maximum of 10 meters across and has a thickness of 30cm. Whereas this would have a diameter of 30 meters, and a thickness depending on the interior space, but at least several meters or more.
Runes have unknown but significant potency. As a rule of thumb, they may be as much as 10x-100x as potent as seals. If a seal could match EM, then runes could surpass it. It is unclear exactly how this would manifest - if its 10x-100x the volume, then this would increase the diameter to between 60m and 140m. If it increases the diameter directly, the results get absurd - 300 meters to 3 kilometers across. Even in the most extreme case, at a growth rate of 0.4 meter/s at minimum and given the spherical shape, it wouldn't take more than an hour for such a construct to form - although the storm and airflow produced would be cataclysmic.
Which brings us to the next question - how do you use this as a barrier technique? The interior is solid ice.
There are a few ways to go about this. First, you can make a stable interior. This could be done by first modifying the CTM effect to exclude a interior region from its temperature manipulations. This would, in principle, allow for the formation of a interior that is not under vacuum, although it would still be solid due to the effects of formation. Next, you could place a barrier of some sort in the interior, such as a air dome or a earth dome. If the interior barrier survives the initial formation, it will maintain a stable interior region unless the Ice Cube is so large that it crushes the dome.
This, however, does not make the interior survivable. All of the surrounding matter is still freezing cold even if the direct temperature manipulation excludes the interior. A strong source of heat or a countering CTM effect would be necessary to maintain livable conditions. Breathable air could be maintained via various methods, as the safe interior is surrounded entirely by (solid) air that could be collected and melted.
For short-term combat use, a simple air dome would likely be adequate to protect the occupant. So long as the interior is hermetically sealed and anchored relative to the CTM effect, it would maintain a warm temperature and breathable air for some time.
This is not a purely defensive technique. Obviously, the initial formation will be destructive to the surroundings, as it produces beyond-hurricane-force winds (acting much like a extra-large implosion bomb), but there is another method.
After the air has condensed into ice, it is significantly denser than it was as ambient air. If it were to return to ambient temperature suddenly, it would be at high pressure and immediately rush outwards. In other words, it would explode. This effect could be achieved with a CTM rune that has a 'toggle switch' or some other method of altering the set temperature during operation.
Calculating the energy obtained from this is slight complicated. A expanding gas can either expand isothermally, or adiabatically. In isothermal expansion, the gas remains at a constant temperature as it expands, generally because it is exchanging heat with the surroundings. In adiabatic expansion, it is assumed that there is no heat exchange with the surroundings, and so the gas reduces in temperature as it expands. Isothermal expansion can extract more energy from a expanding gas than adiabatic.
While inside the CTM effect, expansion will be isothermal; it will not strictly be exchanging heat with anything, but the temperature will remain constant. Outside of the CTM effect, expansion will be adiabatic as explosions tend to be. This makes calculation nontrivial, as a varying proportion of the effect will be isothermal vs adiabatic, and this proportion will depend on the amount of gas that is inside vs outside the effect. So both the time elapsed and the precise geometry of the situation will impact the energy produced.
For simplification purposes, we will assume a entirely adiabatic process. This is a pessimistic estimate, giving us the minimum energy produced, while in reality it will be more. The difference in energy obtained depends on the total temperature change, and so it'll depend on the overall expansion. For a expansion of ~1000x, it should be no more than a 2-3x difference.
So, first, how much expansion will actually occur? Earlier, we established that solid air has a density equivalent to that of water, 1g/cm^3, or 1000kg/m^3. This is a approximate figure; for instance, that is the density of specifically nitrogen ice, which is a majority of, but not all, of solid air. And density will vary according to various factors. But it is adequate.
Atmospheric air has a density of about 1.3kg/m^3 as previously stated. This means that there is a expansion factor of 769; 1 cubic meter of air-ice will become 769 cubic meters of air.
If the air ice suddenly heats up to room temperature, it be identical to a equivalent mass of atmospheric air, but will have 1/769 the volume, and so according to Boyle's Law it will have 769 times the pressure. This means the air is at about 78mPa, or 78 million pascals.
Finally, calculating this directly is annoying, so I chose to use an online calculator for compressed air storage. Putting these numbers in indicates that the expansion of 1 m^3 of (compressed) gas would release between 165MJ and 500 MJ, depending on the proportion of adiabatic vs isothermal expansion. TNT releases about 6.9 GJ per cubic meter, so this has between 1/14th to 1/40th the energy density.
This means that a 30 meter diameter dome, being a half-sphere, would have a volume of
LaTeX:
\[
\frac{\frac{4}{3}π*\frac{30m}{2}^{3}}{2}≈7068m^3
\]
LaTeX:
\[
7068m^3*\frac{0.165GJ}{m^3}≈1166GJ
\]
A 140m diameter dome would have
LaTeX:
\[
\frac{\frac{4}{3}π*\frac{140m}{2}^{3}}{2}*\frac{0.165GJ}{m^3}≈118,532GJ
\]
A 3 kilometer diameter dome would have a blast of
LaTeX:
\[
\frac{\frac{4}{3}π*\frac{3000m}{2}^{3}}{2}*\frac{0.165GJ}{m^3}≈1,166,316,272GJ
\]
We can go further. If, instead of bringing the gas to room temperature, we bring it to a higher temperature, the initial pressure is bigger and the energy released is greater.
If we merely settle for the capabilities of EM, the temperature limit would be around +200 kelvin and the energy released would slightly less than double. If, however, we assume that '10x-100x' multiplier of runes applies to the temperature limit of CTM, and we use the ±200 kelvin of EM Nuke as a basis, then a rune could achieve impossible negative temperatures (danger)... or 20,000 degrees kelvin, more than three times the surface temperature of the sun.
Using that temperature as a set point, the pressure would increase to approximately
LaTeX:
\[
\frac{20270}{270}*78≈5858mPa
\]
A 30m dome would have a energy of about 99TJ, or 24 kilotons at minimum.
A 3 kilometer dome would have a energy of 102 exajoules, or 24+ gigatons, or 480 Tsar Bomba equivalents. This is about eight times as much as the combined nuclear arsenal of the modern world. This is large enough to have a lethal blast radius of, among other things, "the entirety of Rain".
This is a potent defensive and offensive weapon, and so it takes little effort to suggest possible uses.
- Place a runic Ice Cube around the rift, conduct rift research and rescue missions from safety regardless of Akatsuki's attempts.
- Move the rift, and then place a runic Ice Cube around it. Let Akatsuki chase the red herring while we research.
- Create a seal version, deploy it during combat to catch our opponent in the effect or act as a defensive technique.
- Deploy it as a strategic weapon. Use the barrier technique as bait, and then when Akatsuki members investigate it, detonate it.
- Found the Village Hidden in the Fuckoff Huge Ball of Weird Ice
The thing about plans is that things don't like to go according to them. There are several assumptions underlying Project Ice Cube that could prove to be untrue, and would reduce functionality, prevent it from working entirely, or cause it to devolve into a generic CTM-Nuke. Here is a list of possible failure modes I foresee, as well as a estimate of their likelyhood. This is not a comprehensive list.
- CTM could be unusually difficult or impossible to recreate via sealing or runes - LOW, seals can do anything.
- CTM could function differently than thought, such as incoming air taking time to freeze - LOW, CTM-Nuke works, doesn't it?
- Air ice may not weld properly, preventing solid ice from forming and resulting in a variant of CTM-Nuke that produces snow - MODERATE, I think there's a decent amount of evidence in favor of it working as expected, but sonic flow is a pretty extreme condition.
- The forces resulting from the formation of the Ice Cube are stronger than the forces holding it together, preventing it from stabilizing - LOW, if it can make bulk ice at all I expect it to stabilize.
- Toggle-switch temperature manipulation is impractical, or works too slowly to result in a explosion - MODERATE, but it would have to be pretty slow to prevent a explosion, as it would have to take so long that it liquifies and mostly flows out of the area of effect. Several seconds at minimum.
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0. Sections
1. Abstract
2. Introduction to Chakra
3. Seals, Jutsu, and Runes
4. Chakra-mediated temperature manipulation
5. Origins and Elemental Mastery
6. Weaponization
7. Recreation: How
8. Recreation: Why
9. Pushing the Limit: Project Ice Cube
10. Project Ice Cube: Formation
11. Project Ice Cube: Stability, Defensive Strength
12. Project Ice Cube: Size
13. Project Ice Cube: Interior
14. Project Ice Cube: Offensive Use
15. Project Ice Cube: Use Cases
16. Project Ice Cube: Failure Modes
17. Conclusion
In this paper, we will cover the fundamentals of the Ice Cube, a s-class barrier rune with both defense, offensive, and destructive capabilities. The properties of such a rune will be derived from the fundamental properties of chakra and physical laws of nature. A path towards constructing this rune will be hypothesized, and possible uses will be considered.
It is well known that chakra is bullshit. Where the universe runs on firmly established and fundamentally inviolable rules, chakra is get-out-of-jail-free-card. Chakra has been proven to be capable of creating myriad effects ranging from matter-creation, to illusion, action-at-a-distance, 4-dimensional manipulation, and more. And all of this occurs at the whim of a substance with no concrete form, and following the conceptions of the human mind where the universe has otherwise proven apathetic.
Many of these effects could be explained by unseen outcomes; machinery squirreled away in unseen locations, matter and energy swapped from hiding places as needed. Machinating illusions that hide their inner workings from all at the same time as they deceive their target. All demonstrated chakra effects could be achieved if we assume there is more than meets the eye.
And yet, there is no evidence for these things. Chakra's secrets are as yet known to no one. It's deceptions, if any, are thorough. Whatever chakra may be, we have nothing more than speculation. And so, we must take it's capabilities at face value.
Before we continue, it is worth digressing to elaborate on the forms by which chakra is used. There are two relevant methods by which practical effects are deployed via chakra: seals, and jutsu.
Jutsus are akin to a learned skill. A typical human contains some amount of chakra, which is subject to a degree of conscious control much like a muscle. In those with a sufficient amount of chakra, they can use this conscious control to manipulate their internal chakra and, according to chakra's poorly-known rules, produce consistent and repeatable effects on the outside world. This effort consumes chakra from the individual's reserves.
Seals, on the other hand, are akin to a technological device. An individual known as a sealsmith paints a precise pattern onto a piece of paper using carefully-prepared ink in a process known as 'scribing'. They then 'infuse' the seal, pushing their chakra into this pattern. Done correctly, it produces a seal. At a later point, this seal can be activated by any of a variety of methods, at which point it uses the chakra in itself and the surrounding ambient environment to produce a chakra effect.
While similar on the surface, there are significant practical differences between these two strategies of using chakra.
Jutsu are generally safe, reliable, and capable. So long as a individual has sufficient chakra, they can cast any jutsu they know. Mistakes while casting a jutsu are rarely dangerous. New jutsu may significant effort to learn.
Seals, on the other hand, are best described as 'unsafe'. Sealing is remarkably dangerous, as a improperly created or damaged seal will produce a unpredictable, random effect. Much as most of the universe is deadly to humans except for the surface of a small sphere, most possible chakra effects are also highly dangerous. 'Sealing failures', as they are known, are one of the most dangerous chakra phenomena known. Both the creation of a known seal and the development of new ones are extremely dangerous and require a great deal of caution.
A jutsu is created or modified by a individual known as a Technique Hacker, who endures some personal risk from modifying the jutsu, but thereafter the jutsu can be learned and deployed by any number of individuals. However, the overall 'strength' of a jutsu is directly tied to a user's practice in using it, and especially 'strong' jutsu may additionally have large chakra costs or inherent downsides.
Seals, on the other hand, require minimal input from the user. Seals can potentially activate completely autonomously, and even manually-triggered seals require no particular skill or chakra expenditure from the user. Even the process of creating a seal requires minimal chakra. While the process of creating a seal is extremely difficult, using one is far easier than using a new jutsu, and the effect will be consistent between users.
Jutsu can generally make any effect that chakra can make, which is to say, any effect at all. However, the inherent 'safeness' of a jutsu is sometimes a downside, as certain dangerous effects can be desirable. Furthermore, the chakra cost of the effect varies significantly, and can be quite large in some cases. Technique hacking is described as a 'negotiation', 'convincing' chakra to produce a certain effect, with failure resulting in a mediocre product or harmful effects from the chakra.
Seals, on the other hand, have difficulty creating certain effects, particularly more conceptually complicated effects.Sealing is more akin to designing a technological device, creating a complicated effect from simple components and interactions. As such, the more complicated a desired effect, the more 'components' required, and so the greater the effort while designing and scribing the seal.
As a example, consider the common sterilization jutsu, a medical technique which removes microorganisms from human tissue without harming it. This effect is much more difficult to recreate via a seal. A simple explanation of this phenomena is that you can simply 'tell' chakra to sterilize a wound, and the resulting effect will emerge based on your conceptualization of the process. However, a sealsmith would have to more thoroughly understand the process to implement it. This affords more control, but also requires more effort; in the extreme case, you might have to describe a heuristic for identifying microorganisms and distinguishing them from those of human tissue, and then implement a process to remove or destroy them. A jutsu, on the other hand, will simply figure it out for itself.
Finally, there is the topic of Runes. Runes are a offshoot of sealing, and in most respects it is nearly identical. The major differences are that a rune is a 3d structure created in the interior of a rock, whereas a seal is a 2d structure created by ink on paper. Runes can produce more potent and complicated effects than a seal of equivalent difficulty. Notable downsides are the difficulty of learning to make runes, the scarcity of rock suitable to 'draw' a rune into, the increased potency of failures, and the immobility of infused runes due to poorly-understood chakra phenomena.
One effect of chakra in particular is relevant to this paper - area-of-effect chakra temperature manipulation, hereafter known as CTM. CTM is conceptually simple. First a region is defined in some reference frame, typically a non-inertial reference frame fixed relative to some physical object on the earth's surface. Next, the matter within is divided up according to human conceptual labels - broadly, into the 'environment' and 'not the environment'. Any matter which is 'environmental' is subject to CTM, and the remainder is untouched. Indirect effects resulting from normal, macro-scale physical interactions are unchanged.
'The environment' generally includes ambient air, any particulate matter or other substances mixed with the air, and possibly the outermost surfaces of objects where they contact the air. Any matter which does not clearly fit into this category is excluded, erring on the side of caution. Air in a person's lungs is excluded, even if it is connected by a contiguous line of gas to air that is subject to the effect during, for instance, inhalation. The insides of solid objects are excluded in all known examples. Large masses of liquid water are excluded, although mists or dew may be included.
Upon activation of CTM, the temperature of matter in 'the environment' is altered. After a short ramp up period lasting 'a few seconds', the temperature of this matter is held firmly at the specified temperature range, with no known method of altering it. The temperature alteration is 'real'; all normal macroscale physical effects occur from contact with this matter, save for the fact that any interaction which would alter the temperature of matter under the effect fails to alter said temperature. Phase changes can occur, and appear to occur instantly.
It is not known how CTM works at the microscale - no experiments have been done to observe exotic small-scale behavior, if any, and they are not feasible at this time. Obviously, temperature is a abstraction and not a fundamental property of matter, but all observation of behavior has occurred at scales where this abstraction holds.
CTM affects a strictly bounded area, and lasts for a certain number of minutes, according to typical human conception of both space and time. Behavior in un-intuitive spacetime has not been observed. CTM's region cannot overlap other regions of CTM. Nor can CTM affect a region where temperature variations due to a prior CTM still exist. It is not known what the exact properties of this limitation are.
As CTM is a chakra effect, it is safe to assume that some or all of these described behaviors can be altered. These alterations would occur according to the rules of chakra, which are poorly understood and beyond the scope of this paper. Several properties of CTM are known to be easily changed, and include: the duration, the temperature of the effect, and possibly the size of the region affected.
The first and only known example of CTM is a jutsu known as 'Elemental Mastery'. Elemental Mastery, or EM, originates from a village and culture known as Isan. Within Isan, it is regarded as a easily-learned utility jutsu, generally used to maintain comfortable temperatures for habitation.
The properties of EM are straightforward. EM, when cast, consumes the user's chakra and creates a enduring instance of CTM. Several properties of the CTM are determined by the properties of the cast. The location is determined by the caster, and can be anywhere within a maximum range determined by their expertise. The duration is likewise a fixed time determined by their expertise, beginning when they stop concentrating on the jutsu. Finally, the temperature of the effect is set by the caster, with a minimum and maximum again determined by their expertise in the jutsu.
Under typical circumstances, the AOE is around 40 feet, the duration is anywhere from ten minutes to many hours, and the temperature of the CTM depends on the initial ambient temperature, but can range over dozens or hundreds of degrees.
Currently, there are no known extant individuals who are capable of casting or teaching EM. The village and culture of Isan no longer exists, and all individuals known to be capable of casting EM are dead and are not currently revivable.
Chakra-Mediated Temperature, specifically in the form of Elemental Mastery, is infamous for its weaponization. Chakra follows some sort of internal rule, a effect of which is that destructive effects tend to be difficult to create in proportion to their destructiveness. However, CTM is not inherently destructive, and perhaps because of this it can affect a large area.
The most obvious case to weaponize it is to increase the temperature significantly, causing burns and fires within the effect. However, it is actually significantly more effective to decrease the temperature. Once the ambient temperature falls below the condensation point of the major components of air, ambient air will liquefy and reduce its volume to approximately one in one-thousand. This immediately creates a immense pressure differential, drawing more air into the AoE, which then itself liquifies. The net effect is to create tremendous, ongoing winds and a flood of cyrogenic fluid, resulting in massive destruction. The dangerous region of this is comparable to nuclear weapons, and it produces a distinctive storm cloud visible for many miles.
Due to the potency of this effect, this will be the focus of discussion on CTM for the duration of this paper. 'Intended' uses, such as for heating houses, will be disregarded.
The potent destructive capability of EM has resulted in it's elimination. All known sources have been destroyed and all known individuals who learned it are dead, generally with the intent of preventing the use or spread of the jutsu.
While Elemental Mastery is lost, as there are no remaining sources from which it could be learned, it is likely possible to recreate the Chakra-Mediated Temperature effect. The reasoning for this is simple; the original jutsu was of trivial difficulty to learn, and produced a relatively simple effect. The difficulty of a jutsu to learn vs create is correlated. And EM has to be created by someone, at some point. So it is most likely that either sealing or technique hacking could recreate the effect without much trouble.
Conceptually, the process of CTM is simple. The initial identification could be glossed as simply 'air that isn't inside something', and there are several extant seals that target specifically air such as Tunneler's Friend or Air Domes. The temperature modification has no direct analogue, but seals that manipulate kinetic properties of air such as Silence Mines also exist. And there are numerous examples of AOE effect seals.
More generally, chakra can do anything, and so seals can do anything. Seals have difficulty producing more complicated effects, but CTM is not a complicated effect. So it stands to reason that seals can recreate CTM.
At this point, you may wonder why we would bother to recreate such a extremely dangerous effect. With a destructive range measured in kilometers, it is nontrivial to even use without being killed, and it is wholly unsuitable to use near points of interest we wish to defend. Additionally, a great deal of effort was just expended to eliminate the EM jutsu, so recreating it might seem counterintuitive.
The simple answer is that it is sometimes useful to cause vast destruction, and that many of the downsides and dangers of EM are now gone and would not be present if it was recreated by us as a seal.
While CTM is unsuitable for use near friendly or neutrals, there are vast swathes of wilderness filled with only nature and deadly chakra beasts. Usage of CTM in these regions would be acceptable for achieving strategic goals, such as assassination of key targets. Furthermore, in the event that we need to inflict massive destruction or levy a credible threat as to such, CTM is one of the most potent, proven tools for doing so.
While EM was a proliferation risk, this was due to the ease of learning the jutsu and the degree to which knowledge of it had spread before anyone had learned of CTM's destructive capabilities. Now that EM is eliminated, these risks are gone, and recreation via a seal is not a notable proliferation risk so long as we ensure no one learns the seal from us. This is easily achieved via reasonable precautions.
Finally, there is the specific risk that usage of EM is traced back to Leaf, resulting in negative consequences due to the political landscape at the time of this writing. Its existence could be traced to the destruction of Isan by Leaf, or merely the fact that Leaf possesses a extremely potent WMD could cause problems.
However, I argue that this is a less serious risk for several reasons.
First, we have set a long term goal of killing Akatsuki, which will also destabilize AMITY regardless. As such, AMITY retaliation is not a long-term concern.
Second, our goal of killing Akatsuki will place Leaf in grave danger anyway. If our actions and capabilities are linked to Leaf, then Leaf suffer no matter the method we use.
Third, the specific form of CTM that this paper proposes is, to appearances, distinct from EM. This brings us to -
The effect of CTM at the liquefaction point is fairly well known; air liquifies, flows away, more air flows in, repeat. End result is a massive storm and destructive flood of not-water.
I propose that with a simple modification of CTM, the outcome will be substantially different, producing a barrier effect. Introducing: Project Ice Cube
The premise is simple. Take the CTM effect that results in liquefaction of air, and turn the temperature down further. To at least 50 kelvin or below. This result in the freezing of air.
Now, of course, this will not simply produce a ice cube immediately. The air still reduces in volume as it does with liquefaction, producing mach-speed winds. And the air freezes in-place, resulting in snow.
However, I argue that the net effect is that it grows a solid cube of air-ice within the interior of effect, which stabilizes after some time. This results in initially destructive wind, but develops a stable structure afterwards.
The most crucial aspect of Project: Ice Cube is it's formation. The differentiating factor between this and a CTM-Nuke is that the process stabilizes; instead of liquid billowing out of the region of effect, solid ice solidifies until it fills the entire AoE, effectively 'clogging' it and preventing further airflow.
The reasoning I give for this is as follows. First, the air, according to the properties of CTM, instantaneously goes from ambient temperature to freezing. This results in a extremely fine cloud of snow, perhaps even monomolecular at low enough temperatures, as kinetic energy is robbed from the molecules before they have a chance to hit each other and combine into larger pieces of ice. The net result is a extremely fast moving (it was formerly wind), extremely fine, intense spray, composed of a mixture of nitrogen/oxygen/argon/water/CO2/dust.
This is essentially a ideal substance for forming solid ice; while large solid objects do not tend to stick together due to small contact surfaces, non-matching shapes, impurities/oxide barriers, and incompatible chemistries, there are exceptions. Vacuum welding is a known phenomena where clean metal will weld together in the absence of air. Sputtering and PVT produce solid and well-adhered layers on objects by bombarding them with gaseous/plasma substances which solidify on contact. Frost is a well known phenomena where water vapor freezes directly onto solid objects, forming a well-adhered and in some cases thick layer of ice.
I think it will play out like this. The CTM effect activates; after a negligible ~2 second 'warm'up period, the air that was inside the effect is set to about 50 kelvin deposit into a solid, or hangs around, or something else. But it stops contributing to the pressure of the region, and so AoE can be described as instantly becoming a vacuum. All the major components of air will solidify under these conditions, (>99.997% by volume), so it is a near-perfect vacuum.
More air rushes in. This air likewise instantly drops below it's freezing point, while still moving at an extreme pace. The exact speed is nontrivial to calculate but is likely moving at ~mach 1. This onrushing air will either shoot into a opposing flow or the ground. If the effect is overlapping solid ground, such that there is no airflow in one direction, the overall momentum should be downward, and so I expect it all impacts the solid interior of the effect regardless of the intricacies of the flow.
In a linear flow, the mass flow per cross-sectional area is simply the density of the fluid, times the speed. So at mach 1 (343 m/s), and a air density of 1.3 kg/m^3, there will be about
Or 446 kilograms moving through each square meter of cross section every second.LaTeX:\[ 343\frac{m}{s} * 1.3 \frac{kg}{m^3} = 446 \frac{kg}{\frac{m^2}{s}} \]
From this, we can also calculate the force applied - in the worst case, all of that air comes to a complete stop upon impacting a object. This means that every second, across every square meter, a total of 446 kg which is moving at 343 m/s is being (de)accelerated to a standstill, and the object is experiencing a equal and opposite force. That is 446 kg * 343 m/s = 152,944 newtons, per m^2 (aka pascals). This is approximately 1.5x atmospheric pressure. While that doesn't sound like much, it's worth noting that atmospheric pressure is actually quite a lot, and there is no opposing force on the opposite side of a object to balance it out.
The AoE of CTM is spherical, so this is more complicated; near the edge of a sufficiently large sphere, the flow will be approximately linear, but near the center the flow would be (in the worst case) the sum total of all flow across the entire surface of the sphere. However, opposing flows will counteract, so for the purposes of force applied this would cancel out to some degree.
The solids within are likely a mixture of trees, dirt, grass, Akatsuki members, etc. When the inrushing impacts these solids, it will immediately frost onto their surface, and then frost onto the frosted ice. Air ice has a density of approximately 1 g/cm^3 (or 1 ton/m^3), so at a flow rate of 446 kg/s per square meter, you will get a minimum of 400cm of ice growth per second. Much more, for objects near the center of the AoE. This is to say, all debris inside are effectively instantly encased in solid air-ice. There will also be significant force inward, so dirt, trees, etc will tend to be blown inwards until they reach the center, where the momentum of all of the air flows averages out and crushes the ice-debris mixture into the ground.
This process will be extremely turbulent. Most likely, any solid objects are shredded to small pieces. However, the ice will likely remain intact, as even if the forces are sufficient to break apart pieces of it, there is a constant inrush of air that can serve to 'weld' it back together, and the net momentum of air flow dictates that everything is pushed away from the edges of the effect and towards the center regardless of how turbulent that center is.
As the frozen mass of air, dirt, trees, and shredded red robes grows in the center of the effect, it will eventually stabilize. Any empty space which intersects the AoE of the effect becomes a vacuum, but once the ice cube grows to the edge of the effect, it will no longer draw in more air, and the CTM effect will simply maintain the temperature of the frozen air such that it never melts.
For small AoEs, the final result will be a half-sphere of air-ice the size of the effect, while for larger effects I suspect it will produce a mound. This is because a sufficiently large mass of frozen air will not be structurally stable, and sections will break off or the base will crumble and push outward. I find it unlikely that this will result in instability that causes the effect to be continuous a-la the CTM-Nuke; at most, it should have occasional flare-ups where enough air-ice from the exterior melts, and then a shift occurs and more air must freeze onto the top of the mound.
In either case, this mass of ice is significantly resistant to damage. In the hypothetical case where a crack is instantly formed, dividing it in half, there is still the full force of atmospheric pressure holding the halves together. Unlike a conventional solid, the interior is intrinsically either a solid or a vacuum - gaseous air cannot exist within the interior, so air cannot flow into a crack and allow the pieces to separate. Any air that does flow into a crack will simply serve to weld it together, and the interior will likely near-instantly vacuum-weld together due to the strong forces and alike substances.
In the case of explosions or fire techniques, such as Aramatsu, the effects get... flashy. I am not sure how chakra heating will interact with chakra freezing, but assuming the former overwhelms the latter, you will get a vapor explosion. Afterwards, you get a implosion, as that damaged region self-heals, new air rushing in to form new ice. If you're close, or the damage is large, this could be quite dangerous. As such, the technique could be called both ablative and self-healing - damage to it will reactively damage the surroundings, and then repair itself in the absence of interference. The greater the damage done, the greater the reaction. And any damage that doesn't pierce through to the core will quickly repair itself given a growth rate of 400+cm per second.
The obvious solutions - tunnel through it, or under it, are nearly impossible. The interior is intrinsically a vacuum - any air subject to the AoE will freeze solid. Tunnelers would suffocate without extreme precautions, and would be forced to tunnel through a vacuum or utilize constant heating techniques to overcome the effect. Tunneling under it encounters the same issues.
Given the immense repair rate of the dome, the fundamentally ordinary matter making it up, and the destructive outcome of attempting to breach it, this is a very effective defense. It is not a purely chakra barrier that could be bypassed or interrupted, it is simply ice held together by a exotic effect. It cannot be easily attacked, as it repairs itself and punishes attackers. It is resistant to tunneling be it through or over. It is likely that you would need specialized air or spacetime techniques to enter the interior, or very powerful piercing attacks that could hit the core from the outside, and even then the mass of air is still there and will pose a obstacle or danger to attackers.
Now we must ask, how large is this effect? This is much less clear.
The original EM covered 1 zone, which is not a constant unit of measurement. It varies by circumstance, as it is a measurement used to describe movement during combat. In the open, it would be approximately 30 meters across, and that is the figure we will use henceforth.
If we recreate the effect with this range, this would be significantly larger than a air dome, and thicker. A air dome is a maximum of 10 meters across and has a thickness of 30cm. Whereas this would have a diameter of 30 meters, and a thickness depending on the interior space, but at least several meters or more.
Runes have unknown but significant potency. As a rule of thumb, they may be as much as 10x-100x as potent as seals. If a seal could match EM, then runes could surpass it. It is unclear exactly how this would manifest - if its 10x-100x the volume, then this would increase the diameter to between 60m and 140m. If it increases the diameter directly, the results get absurd - 300 meters to 3 kilometers across. Even in the most extreme case, at a growth rate of 0.4 meter/s at minimum and given the spherical shape, it wouldn't take more than an hour for such a construct to form - although the storm and airflow produced would be cataclysmic.
Which brings us to the next question - how do you use this as a barrier technique? The interior is solid ice.
There are a few ways to go about this. First, you can make a stable interior. This could be done by first modifying the CTM effect to exclude a interior region from its temperature manipulations. This would, in principle, allow for the formation of a interior that is not under vacuum, although it would still be solid due to the effects of formation. Next, you could place a barrier of some sort in the interior, such as a air dome or a earth dome. If the interior barrier survives the initial formation, it will maintain a stable interior region unless the Ice Cube is so large that it crushes the dome.
This, however, does not make the interior survivable. All of the surrounding matter is still freezing cold even if the direct temperature manipulation excludes the interior. A strong source of heat or a countering CTM effect would be necessary to maintain livable conditions. Breathable air could be maintained via various methods, as the safe interior is surrounded entirely by (solid) air that could be collected and melted.
For short-term combat use, a simple air dome would likely be adequate to protect the occupant. So long as the interior is hermetically sealed and anchored relative to the CTM effect, it would maintain a warm temperature and breathable air for some time.
This is not a purely defensive technique. Obviously, the initial formation will be destructive to the surroundings, as it produces beyond-hurricane-force winds (acting much like a extra-large implosion bomb), but there is another method.
After the air has condensed into ice, it is significantly denser than it was as ambient air. If it were to return to ambient temperature suddenly, it would be at high pressure and immediately rush outwards. In other words, it would explode. This effect could be achieved with a CTM rune that has a 'toggle switch' or some other method of altering the set temperature during operation.
Calculating the energy obtained from this is slight complicated. A expanding gas can either expand isothermally, or adiabatically. In isothermal expansion, the gas remains at a constant temperature as it expands, generally because it is exchanging heat with the surroundings. In adiabatic expansion, it is assumed that there is no heat exchange with the surroundings, and so the gas reduces in temperature as it expands. Isothermal expansion can extract more energy from a expanding gas than adiabatic.
While inside the CTM effect, expansion will be isothermal; it will not strictly be exchanging heat with anything, but the temperature will remain constant. Outside of the CTM effect, expansion will be adiabatic as explosions tend to be. This makes calculation nontrivial, as a varying proportion of the effect will be isothermal vs adiabatic, and this proportion will depend on the amount of gas that is inside vs outside the effect. So both the time elapsed and the precise geometry of the situation will impact the energy produced.
For simplification purposes, we will assume a entirely adiabatic process. This is a pessimistic estimate, giving us the minimum energy produced, while in reality it will be more. The difference in energy obtained depends on the total temperature change, and so it'll depend on the overall expansion. For a expansion of ~1000x, it should be no more than a 2-3x difference.
So, first, how much expansion will actually occur? Earlier, we established that solid air has a density equivalent to that of water, 1g/cm^3, or 1000kg/m^3. This is a approximate figure; for instance, that is the density of specifically nitrogen ice, which is a majority of, but not all, of solid air. And density will vary according to various factors. But it is adequate.
Atmospheric air has a density of about 1.3kg/m^3 as previously stated. This means that there is a expansion factor of 769; 1 cubic meter of air-ice will become 769 cubic meters of air.
If the air ice suddenly heats up to room temperature, it be identical to a equivalent mass of atmospheric air, but will have 1/769 the volume, and so according to Boyle's Law it will have 769 times the pressure. This means the air is at about 78mPa, or 78 million pascals.
Finally, calculating this directly is annoying, so I chose to use an online calculator for compressed air storage. Putting these numbers in indicates that the expansion of 1 m^3 of (compressed) gas would release between 165MJ and 500 MJ, depending on the proportion of adiabatic vs isothermal expansion. TNT releases about 6.9 GJ per cubic meter, so this has between 1/14th to 1/40th the energy density.
This means that a 30 meter diameter dome, being a half-sphere, would have a volume of
7068 cubic meters, resulting in a energy ofLaTeX:\[ \frac{\frac{4}{3}π*\frac{30m}{2}^{3}}{2}≈7068m^3 \]
Or roughly 280 tons of tnt equivalent. This is much, much larger than a explosive rune, which tops out at approximately 0.5 tons of tnt optimistically according to estimates by blast size.LaTeX:\[ 7068m^3*\frac{0.165GJ}{m^3}≈1166GJ \]
A 140m diameter dome would have
Or 118 TJ, or 28 kiloton tnt equivalent, minimum.LaTeX:\[ \frac{\frac{4}{3}π*\frac{140m}{2}^{3}}{2}*\frac{0.165GJ}{m^3}≈118,532GJ \]
A 3 kilometer diameter dome would have a blast of
Or 1.2 exajoules, or 280 megatons of tnt equivalent, minimum. AKA about 5 Tsar Bombas.LaTeX:\[ \frac{\frac{4}{3}π*\frac{3000m}{2}^{3}}{2}*\frac{0.165GJ}{m^3}≈1,166,316,272GJ \]
We can go further. If, instead of bringing the gas to room temperature, we bring it to a higher temperature, the initial pressure is bigger and the energy released is greater.
If we merely settle for the capabilities of EM, the temperature limit would be around +200 kelvin and the energy released would slightly less than double. If, however, we assume that '10x-100x' multiplier of runes applies to the temperature limit of CTM, and we use the ±200 kelvin of EM Nuke as a basis, then a rune could achieve impossible negative temperatures (danger)... or 20,000 degrees kelvin, more than three times the surface temperature of the sun.
Using that temperature as a set point, the pressure would increase to approximately
Or 5.9 gPa. This results in a energy per m^3 of about 14GJ-64GJ, or approximate a 85x increase. This is also a sufficient temperature and pressure that I suspect energy gains from fusion might be non-negligible, although it is difficult to calculate.LaTeX:\[ \frac{20270}{270}*78≈5858mPa \]
A 30m dome would have a energy of about 99TJ, or 24 kilotons at minimum.
A 3 kilometer dome would have a energy of 102 exajoules, or 24+ gigatons, or 480 Tsar Bomba equivalents. This is about eight times as much as the combined nuclear arsenal of the modern world. This is large enough to have a lethal blast radius of, among other things, "the entirety of Rain".
This is a potent defensive and offensive weapon, and so it takes little effort to suggest possible uses.
- Place a runic Ice Cube around the rift, conduct rift research and rescue missions from safety regardless of Akatsuki's attempts.
- Move the rift, and then place a runic Ice Cube around it. Let Akatsuki chase the red herring while we research.
- Create a seal version, deploy it during combat to catch our opponent in the effect or act as a defensive technique.
- Deploy it as a strategic weapon. Use the barrier technique as bait, and then when Akatsuki members investigate it, detonate it.
- Found the Village Hidden in the Fuckoff Huge Ball of Weird Ice
The thing about plans is that things don't like to go according to them. There are several assumptions underlying Project Ice Cube that could prove to be untrue, and would reduce functionality, prevent it from working entirely, or cause it to devolve into a generic CTM-Nuke. Here is a list of possible failure modes I foresee, as well as a estimate of their likelyhood. This is not a comprehensive list.
- CTM could be unusually difficult or impossible to recreate via sealing or runes - LOW, seals can do anything.
- CTM could function differently than thought, such as incoming air taking time to freeze - LOW, CTM-Nuke works, doesn't it?
- Air ice may not weld properly, preventing solid ice from forming and resulting in a variant of CTM-Nuke that produces snow - MODERATE, I think there's a decent amount of evidence in favor of it working as expected, but sonic flow is a pretty extreme condition.
- The forces resulting from the formation of the Ice Cube are stronger than the forces holding it together, preventing it from stabilizing - LOW, if it can make bulk ice at all I expect it to stabilize.
- Toggle-switch temperature manipulation is impractical, or works too slowly to result in a explosion - MODERATE, but it would have to be pretty slow to prevent a explosion, as it would have to take so long that it liquifies and mostly flows out of the area of effect. Several seconds at minimum.
View:
Well shit, this is amazing!
Both for the effort and.. well, the outcome. The important part is that its exceedingly simple and builds from basic principles so even if the end result ended up as a Jounin-Level Rune (unlike Elemental Mastery which didn't need to be levelled high to produce a nuke), we can still build veterancy on the road to make that. Steering Hazou to develop something like this would be difficult, of course, but potentially doable.
[X] [Hazo Training] Skills that matter
Primordial Sealing 11 -> 17 (184 XP)
...Please come up with more? Haha.
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