[X] Action Plan: Not Actually a Fleshed Out Action Plan
Word Count: ???
  • We would like to accept. Joining Akatsuki would align strongly with our goals, and it's only because of the severe consequences to the Dragonwar, our family, and our clan that we can't immediately accept.
  • Respectfully, we think you are underestimating our abilities as a Sealsmaster, and with it, our importance to the Dragonwar.
    • Our Bloodline allows us to permanently memorize the entirety of a seal from a glance and recreate it later, and we got a glance of it at great cost. Out of everyone in Leaf, we have the most detailed understanding of the Great Seal.
    • We are the most skilled Earthshaper in Leaf, which allows us to examine the seal safely from underground, and which enables future repairs to the Great Seal.
    • We also created the HOWs, which help stabilize the Great Seal, and we are the only one aside from a summon boss to have killed a dragon.
      • Do not elaborate on how if it can be helped. No need to poke at a sore point.
  • We would like to find a third option. Resurrecting our loved ones is a goal that everyone can support as much as peace, and we shouldn't have to give up the living to do it.
  • First, do we have permission to invite Ami? Ami is a third party who is trusted by both of us, and a world-class expert at finding third options in tricky political situations. We strongly believe that this situation would be better resolved with her help.
    • We should not reveal that you were planning to recruit Hazo. Just say that we want official cooperation with Leaf, particularly Hazo's help. Do not put her in a awkward position of choosing between Leaf and us.
    • Ami is OPSEC safe, we can trust her with this.
      • If necessary, reveal to Itachi that Ami already knows about Necromancy.
  • If we can't invite Ami, here are a few ideas.
  • First idea: Go to Tsunade together. Itachi bluntly informs her that Akatsuki will be able to bring back the dead shortly.
    • She has a few ways to respond to this:
      • Option 1: She rallies against it with all her might. Leaf gets bombed.
        • Anyone other hidden village she tries to convince to help will not believe Akatsuki's word against Leaf, it would be seen as a ploy to turn the world against Akatsuki moments after suffering harsh sanctions.
      • Option 2: She stays out of it and keeps Hazo. Akatsuki does what they want and recovers Pain.
      • Option 3: She cooperates and donates Hazo, who was independently researching resurrection. Leaf gets concessions, such as reviving Minato or other peace-aligned Leaf s-rankers.
        • Minato would share Pain's ideals, and is much-beloved by Leaf. This is win/win.
    • This is not actually telling her anything new.
      • You announced that you wanted 'dimensional research'.
        • We reported our mission in O'Uzu in detail as soon as we got back. She'll figure it out.
      • We told a variety of trusted people about necromancy, including Ami, summons, clan heads, the hokage, and s-classers.
      • Leaf will figure out what you got and what you want to do with it.
      • Really, this just gets ahead of the game, and proactively prevents any plans to interfere.
  • Second idea: Make this a public AMITY venture.
    • Publicly announce that the next AMITY project is opening the rift and reviving the dead.
    • Gains the assistance of Orochimaru and Hazo.
    • Any revivals must be someone who will positively impact the world, or swear to uphold AMITY.
    • Akatsuki will swear not to unilaterally perform super-rituals.
    • AMITY gets more force for peace, everyone else gets their loved ones back.
    • Definitely bring in Ami for troubleshooting if we go with this.
  • Don't volunteer this, but if Itachi makes it clear he plans to kill us for refusing, agree to assist Akatsuki. Swear on Akane's Resurrection, and do whatever is necessary to convince them you will earnestly help them and not betray them.
    • Our death would cause all the same problems as if we left.
    • Obviously we'd prefer this instead of dying.
[X] Action Plan: I Am Once Again Asking For Your Diplomatic Support
  • Regretfully decline. You're more needed for the Dragonwar.
    • If Itachi decides to kill you: calmly reassert your importance for the Dragonwar. You've already been crucial for stopping fast degradation (HOWS). Last resort: reveal lithosealing.
  • Immediate debriefing with Tsunade: Share everything except what's necromancy-related. Itachi apologized, attempted recruitment based on supposed ideological compatibility, you escaped by arguing Dragonwar needs.
    • Schedule another meeting a few hours later. You have ideas regarding why Akatsuki wanted dimensionalism.
    • Insist on needing time to prepare, to run some preliminary analyses. Otherwise the whole thing'll sound incoherent.
  • Top-security meeting with Kei, Ami, Mari.
    • Brief them on everything, including lithosealing.
    • Three options:
      1. Try to out-race them. May still be viable: if you can crack rift-moving, you can steal it and replace it with a different one. If done covertly, they may not even realize there's been foul play: just the universe being cruel.
        • ...but you're not sure you'll be fast enough anymore, and they could have the rift guarded.
      2. Try to kill them. Lithosealing should allow novel superweapons, and with sufficient intel on their movements Leaf's forces could in theory assassinate each Akatsuki member before any of them know to retaliate.
        • But the death of Akatsuki would likely spell the end of AMITY, even if we resurrected a bunch of Leaf S-Rankers in their stead.
      3. Let Akatsuki monopolise the rift. Unfortunately, they don't seem inclined to resurrect Jiraiya.
        • With sufficient political manoeuvring, could we make it in their interests to resurrect a Kage for each country?
    • However, options one and two require:
      1. You to recover faster. Requires Tsunade and/or Orochimaru's focused attention.
      2. Leaf's buy-in. Can't kill Akatsuki without Leaf's S-rankers, and likely can't covertly steal the rift either (they likely placed guards/spies there).
      3. Your focused attention over a multi-month period. It's nontrivial: you have many different projects on your plate, and Clan Head duties and random smaller disasters (Hagoromo, suspicions about your culpability) don't help.
        • Ami: Can she handle that? Ensure over the next half-a-year minimum, you'd be solely focused on beating Akatsuki, with at most Dragonwar as distraction. Not to the extent of social isolation, that'd degrade your performance. But ensure there aren't fires only Hazou can put out, and ensure we never waste time pushing non-essential goals.
        • As part of that, Hazou could temporarily step down as Clan Head in favour of Noburi, even if it makes us look incredibly suspicious.
  • Meet Tsunade again. Optimize with Mari/Ami/Kei, take some of them along if that'd help.
    • Debrief her on the necromancy research, the implications of Akatsuki taking it, and lithosealing.
    • Outline your anti-Akatsuki options, and what you and Leaf would need to succeed.
    • If she's furious we haven't shared necromancy before: we weren't sure it'd even work, wanted a working prototype first (Rift Seal 0).
    • If she insists we destroy the rift: Agree it's a sensible precaution, and you'd develop a seal to for that, to use as a last resort if Akatsuki'd win otherwise... but plead with her to give us the chance to try.
[X] Yes
[X] Action Plan: No, but Yes
 
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Also can you add this back in?
"First idea: Make our cooperation a concession from Leaf.
You have Leaf over a barrel. You can change the deal.
Call it a head for a head or something. Leaf took someone valuable from you, so you take someone valuable from Leaf.
Tell them you found our research more valuable than you anticipated, and you want our expertise and to keep a eye on us.
There is no need to tell them what or why you want us.
Maybe offer concessions to sweeten the deal? Demand less land?"
I think it's a decent idea

@Buggy I second this. It was one of the reasons that made your plan better.

If you remember, my entire reason for voting for it was:

Wouldn't mind a plan that floats the idea for Itachi to take us and Goketsu as 'prisoners' as part of the price for Kakuzu's death. I'd make said plan but then it'd be guaranteed to get no votes so....

I want the prisoners thing and I want Goketsu with us. I also feel like the other options are less likely to work.

I can also see the point about the Iron Nerve. We probably shouldn't just reveal that it's our bloodline, but that we do have a copy of it in our mind and can recreate it, and simply don't say how (Clan secrets even).
 
[X] Action Plan: Yes, For Your Own Good

[X] ABSOLUTELY DO NOT 'I Hits A Bits'

---

Speaking only for myself, I think it is a terrible idea and have voted accordingly.
@Buggy I consider "Asert that we're a better sealmaster than Orochimaru", which Hazoupilot believes, to do plenty of work on establishing that we're hot shit.
@faflec and others, if the Iron Nerve talk was replaced with a "Hazou > Snuncle", would that get your vote?

Um... I don't recall anyone who is currently voting on the plan but opposes sharing lithosealing off the top of my head, while there certainly is a bunch of people vocally wanting it back, and those who are voting on your plan and voted in the little questionnaire seemed to have voted with a quite heavy C preference - but I guess we will see. Could you reiterate on why you have the impression its unwanted? It appears to me that its much more wanted than the inclusion of bloodline secrets had been.

...This is very a divisive vote where half of the players are voting [Yes] and half are voting [No], so I think its pretty crucial for the leading [Yes] plan to actually end up with us on board with Akatsuki, rather than leading to a [No] in disguise as we fail to convince..
I oppose the hell out of this.
If you want to leak Lithosealing(terrible idea, buys us nothing, costs us a lot), there's already a fork for that. I notice that it is in fact, a less popular fork.

Also, given multiple-aproval voteing, the last paragraph makes no sense.
 
@Buggy I consider "Asert that we're a better sealmaster than Orochimaru", which Hazoupilot believes, to do plenty of work on establishing that we're hot shit.
@faflec and others, if the Iron Nerve talk was replaced with a "Hazou > Snuncle", would that get your vote?
I like the idea, if someone can assist me with coming up with a actual convincing boast I am willing to include or replace it. I need details; 'we collaborated with Orochimaru as equals', 'we offered him dragon parts he was insanely eager for', etc. Clear, honest statements (which Itachi will know are true because our Deceit sucks), that drive home that we're his peer or superior in sealing.


@Buggy I second this. It was one of the reasons that made your plan better.

If you remember, my entire reason for voting for it was:
Noted. I've readded it, but as the third plan to mention. Hopefully this means that it won't weaken our prior two arguments like someone was concerned about (if Itachi likes one of them, we may stop there instead of going to the other ideas). The risk is that we run out of Itachi's patience and he doesn't let us finish.


I can also see the point about the Iron Nerve. We probably shouldn't just reveal that it's our bloodline, but that we do have a copy of it in our mind and can recreate it, and simply don't say how (Clan secrets even).
I have modified it to be more vague. Saying that we got the Great Seal via clan secrets and Arachnid sacrifices.
 
Adhoc vote count started by RandomOTP on Oct 13, 2023 at 2:04 PM, finished with 326 posts and 44 votes.


Current Status of the voting cycle.
 
This is not easily repeated.
Maybe add even if we were to share the secrets, it is not easily repeated

Edit: and that oro specifically could not repeat it to our knowledge

edit2: I would actually moderately rather we just reveal our bloodline, or at least have a contingency to reveal it if we aren't convincing itachi. Can you put it back in? It is a gesture of good faith and more convincing. If people state they would be willing to vote for the plan if that part is omitted, or that they will stop voting for the plan if that part is included. Then I'd be fine with not including bloodline info
 
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I oppose the hell out of this. If you want to leak Lithosealing(terrible idea, buys us nothing, costs us a lot), there's already a fork for that. I notice that it is in fact, a less popular fork.

Also, given multiple-aproval voteing, the last paragraph makes no sense.
Its only the less popular fork because it got created when the plan already had most of its votes, and forks start with 0 votes so bandwagon effect. You are entitled to your opinion of course, but, what are your reasons for opposing it? If we are headed towards joining Akatsuki then we'd literally have no way of working on Lithosealing ever without them finding out, as we'll be cooperating with Sasori. What good is a shiny if we dont use it? Meanwhile its extremely valuable towards Rift research and my impression is we want that to succeed and save the world..
 
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A general shoutout to people who aren't voting for Buggy's plan. What changes in buggy's plans would be needed for you to vote for it?
 
Maybe add even if we were to share the secrets, it is not easily repeated

Edit: and that oro specifically could not repeat it to our knowledge

edit2: I would actually moderately rather we just reveal our bloodline, or at least have a contingency to reveal it if we aren't convincing itachi. Can you put it back in? It is a gesture of good faith and more convincing. If people state they would be willing to vote for the plan if that part is omitted, or that they will stop voting for the plan if that part is included. Then I'd be fine with not including bloodline info
I'm really worried that what will end up happening is every meaty part will be edited out of the plan for fear of offending this or that voter (which has already happen to a large degree), and then you end up with an unworkable plan that people won't vote on anyway. Note how the plan as it was yesterday already had most of its current votes and was leading by a mile and a half at the time - and then it got cut into pieces, and has barely received any new votes since then, while votes for other plans flow in en-masse. Things are looking quite grim. There is no plan that will avoid touching everyone's sensibilities, and what is left needs to actually be convincing and workable and the current shape of it, well, isn't. I would probably switch my vote at this point if there were any alternatives with any votes that aren't dead set on Leaf Clan Politics - The Quest.
 
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You could always start your own quest. With blackjack and hookers.

(Actually, MfD already has those; Hazō probably did a lot of the former and has not been allowed to do any of the latter.)

...Hmm.

This makes me want to muse about the possibility of the Goketsu Clinic being favored for sex workers over going to the Leaf Hospital. Because you know Noburi doesn't judge, and Hazou is pro-civilian, and Uplift doesn't discriminate in that way.

And while Leaf Hospital's medics might be willing to defy Tsunade and refuse to render proper aid to civilians, Hazou would do a Pretty Damn Far if he found out someone was doing that in his Clan's Clinic.

So the Goketsu Clinic, on top of handling a large amount of the overflow from Leaf's Hospital, might also be the preferred location for many civilians (sex workers and non-sex workers alike) simply due to the standard of care/humane treatment they receive there.
 
I haven't been keeping track of versions too much. What meat besides the bloodline has been removed?
Lithosealing and Bloodline stuff (which Itachi is likely aware of regardless, its possibly part of why he wants our cooperation in the first place, he mentioned bloodline clans and mutants like us literally this chapter) are the main ones, but the plan got shaved off most of its initial concessions and ways to convince Itachi we are valuable, while keeping the intent to raise all the wild ideas on how to make "not betraying Leaf" work, to the point it barely resembles its original (brainstorming) variant which gave Itachi compelling reasons to consider us valuable and take us seriously, first.

Personally... I'm skeptical we can even pick the conversation back up right now without throwing Itachi a bombshell straight away, it seems to me that barring major reveals he has made up his mind already and is just waiting for our final decision.
 
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Essentially I'd like you to at the following up front:
  • Go check what notes Itachi took from the compound. Do that until interrupted and told to officially report.
    • While there, debrief with Mari.
    • Include Kei/Snowflake/Noburi if present.
    • Sanity checks the Tsunade debrief.
Added this section in modified form, although I'm a little concerned that Tsunade will be pissed if we're tardy. I'll remove it if other people object.

And the following at the end:
  • Reveal lithosealing to Team Uplift.
I don't want to include this, because my plan is designed to be the least controversial, lowest common denominator way to decline Itachi's offer and do nothing else significant. We can debate this next voting cycle.

[X] Action Plan: Politely Decline
Word Count: <300
  • Decline Itachi's Offer
    • Our work on the dragonwar is too important
  • If Tsunade doesn't demand our presence immediately
    • Debrief with Mari, and Kei/Snowflake/Noburi if present
    • Optimize debrief with Tsunade
    • Leave when/if Tsunade summons us, don't delay too long
  • Debrief with Tsunade
    • Tell her everything about the meeting with Itachi and anything she wants to know about necromancy
    • If she suspects/accuses us of treason
      • We are not willing, and were never willing, to betray Leaf to join the Akatsuki
      • We wanted to
        • Not get killed by Itachi
        • Give a sufficiently good reason to decline without getting killed
        • Get information about Akatsuki's short and long-term plans without getting killed
  • Check what notes Itachi took
 
I'm really worried that what will end up happening is every meaty part will be edited out of the plan for fear of offending this or that voter (which has already happen to a large degree), and then you end up with an unworkable plan that people won't vote on anyway. Note how the plan as it was yesterday already had most of its current votes and was leading by a mile and a half at the time - and then it got cut into pieces, and has barely received any new votes since then, while votes for other plans flow in en-masse. Things are looking quite grim. There is no plan that will avoid touching everyone's sensibilities, and what is left needs to actually be convincing and workable and the current shape of it, well, isn't. I would probably switch my vote at this point if there were any alternatives with any votes that aren't dead set on Leaf Clan Politics - The Quest.
I've been trying not to trim out the meaty parts and I think i've been successful in that regard.

We no longer specifically mention our bloodline, instead we just swap it out with 'clan secrets' and mention that we can't repeat it. It has a similar effect; we still state that we memorized it, and that we best understand the seal.

The Lithosealing was always a "we could do this, but its really risky" thing. Specifically something i mentioned for the players. Its a contentious topic and i did not mean to give the impression that the plan was absolutely going to mention it, and I hope voters didn't come away with that impression.

As well, i re-added the part about making it a concession from Leaf, placing it third instead of first to try and mitigate the possibility of weaking the other arguments. This is pretty much the same unless we get a Itachi Interrupt half way through our spiel.

And i think a lot of those early votes were simply because there were people to vote. Everyone who was ready to vote, has voted. At this point its just a matter of getting one or two holdouts to resolve the tie.
 
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This makes me want to muse about the possibility of the Goketsu Clinic being favored for sex workers over going to the Leaf Hospital. Because you know Noburi doesn't judge, and Hazou is pro-civilian, and Uplift doesn't discriminate in that way.

And while Leaf Hospital's medics might be willing to defy Tsunade and refuse to render proper aid to civilians, Hazou would do a Pretty Damn Far if he found out someone was doing that in his Clan's Clinic.

So the Goketsu Clinic, on top of handling a large amount of the overflow from Leaf's Hospital, might also be the preferred location for many civilians (sex workers and non-sex workers alike) simply due to the standard of care/humane treatment they receive there.
I think there are a lot of assumptions there. I can't recall attitudes to sex work coming up much in the quest. I'm not sure you know any of the Gōketsu's attitudes to it except (obviously) Hazō's and possibly Mari's, and while Hazō's made his stance on LGBT equality public, he's never spoken out about sex work or its role in relation to Uplift.
 
And i think a lot of those early votes were simply because there were people to vote. Everyone who was ready to vote, has voted. At this point its just a matter of getting one or two holdouts to resolve the tie.
I'm not sure. The opposing plans are receiving a fast trickle of votes all day, why would this one stop receiving any new ones if that's the case? I'm not trying to sow doom and gloom, but... read the chapter. Then read the plan as it is now, right afterwards, and gauge if it has any chance of working out well for us based on the contents of said chapter. I did that half an hour ago and I just don't think so anymore. And if a plan is not likely to work well anymore post edits, then it naturally won't receive new votes from people who just read the chapter and looked at the leading plans, trying to make a decision.
 
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I'm really worried that what will end up happening is every meaty part will be edited out of the plan for fear of offending this or that voter (which has already happen to a large degree), and then you end up with an unworkable plan that people won't vote on anyway.
I guess I'm a little worried about that. But overall a responsive plan maker is good, especially when votes are this divisive. You mentioned a plan that people won't vote on anyway which is the important part. we should make sure the Changes actually successfully wins new voters
Lithosealing and Bloodline stuff
Didn't realize lithosealing was originally in, which confuses me more why it was removed. But I really don't want to lose mutants vote now, and I haven't heard anyone saying their vote is dependent on lithosealing. Hopefully mutant can explain reasoning and we can persuade
 
[] Action Plan: Politely Decline

Yeah if I was gonna vote acceptance I'd want it strong, explicitly mention iron-nerve, probably leak lithosealing, anything to make the play during this conversation.
 
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