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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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I wonder if the reason the Elemental can bind itself to our armor without problem is that it's not a normal "elemental" elemental. Instead of being aligned with one of the Winds, it's aligned with the Glittering Realm. We did briefly cross into the realm while working at the Anvil after all. We could have brought something back with us.
I'm jazzed enough about things that I'm looking for excuses to talk about stuff, and this what jumps out to me.

Snorri is right, that normal Elementals which were drawn in would've been made into more energy. Rather than binding themselves to his creations, as Mhorni has apparently done.

Yet, and this is where the wild theories come in, there was another entity that was drawn in. Something that felt what Snorri was doing, as he added the reagents and struck the Runes upon the Anvil during a Storm of Magic. That was drawn in, no, upward from beneath. Which, maybe, reinforced Snorri's Will. Even while Snorri lost all awareness of his surroundings, and his body was falling apart, maybe it was this entity that was urging him to endure and remember.

He didn't survive the encounter unscathed, the first apparent contact causing immense pain. Like something within him was being burned.

Yet, at the very end, the Glittering Realm manifested.

It's accepted that the Ancestor Gods are mundane beings that achieved divinity, and that they weren't even the first Dwarfs. Further, Thungni is credited with discovering the Glittering Realm. He isn't a being of the Aeythr, with his own brand of magic and the Glittering Realm as his domain.

Since this is how Runesmithing came to be, it seems impossible that Thungni could've created the imprint on the Aeythr to begin with. Unless, as Thungni disappears from the Karaz Ankor, he uses the height of his power in order to reach into the past and let his younger self into the Glittering Realm.

Um, I can't really speak on that. I don't think anyone really can. That said, this doesn't have to mean anything for Snorri. Whatever it's origins, all we need to know is that the Glittering Realm is tied to the Aeythr. With, perhaps, something like Daemons of it's own. That's not a reassuring connotation, but what else would you call it?

An Elemental of Runesmithing? What else would that be, besides something or an Angel? Which, out of everything in Fantasy, a Daemon is what most resembles that. Lesser entities tied to a larger power, sent to do their bidding.

I mean, what other alternatives are there?

Maybe, what if…

Could that original entity been a part of Thungni? With the statues and their glowing eyes, there's been instances where His attention is turned to Snorri as he works. And what else was the creation of Skarrenbakraz, but a greater version of all that came before? Which would make it more that Snorri was Mantling Thungni, as priest would.

As a priest of Sigmar and Ulfric saying prayers during battle to reinforce their followers, or to smite their enemies, maybe Snorri's chants and craft brought Thungni's attention to bear.

All this is well and good, but what does it mean for Mhorni? It's unique connection to his Runecraft would fit nicely if it was related to Thungni's presence, but it doesn't answer it's connection to Snorri and his thoughts and intentions.

Well, if I had to guess, perhaps it's an echo of when Thungni Mantled Snorri? The weight of Thungni's presence, no matter how small, was burning Snorri's soul. The Brana compared it to an ore being smelted and purified, and cooling as Snorri recovered, but it still seems like it was Snorri was diminishing from the experience. Maybe that left something of a void in his soul, one that was occupied by Thungni's attention. Yet when it was over, that void wasn't necessarily filled. So…uh, hmmm.

I'm coming up against a wall here, but I can't forget that Mhorni has a unique connection to Snorri himself. Seeming to have the knowledge to understand not just Dwarf culture, but Snorri's own unvoiced thoughts and feelings.

This, more than anything, suggests to me that Mhorni is connected to Snorri's soul.

So along with all the rest of this gobbledegook, along with the physical changes like Snorri's eye and his beard, Thungni's presence left a mark.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I have no clue what Mhorni actually is, what to call it, but I think it's a safe bet to say that it isn't an Elemental of any kind. Like, all I've got to compare it to are Arcane Marks. So, in this instance, perhaps a middle ground between those and Divine Marks. Like Snorri's eye and part of his beard.

I don't totally believe that, because this is in no way predictable or standardized. Snorri's soul got mixed around and boiled and whatnot, with Thungni's stopping by to give Snorri a helping hand. Which, even if it didn't make things worse, definitely flavored the damage Snorri endured and thus the changes that came about.

That's all I've got.

What's up with Mhorni?

Well, I don't think it's an Elemental. It seems more like some sort of echo of Snorri's soul, that only exists as it does due to the attention of Thungni.

Maybe that part of Snorri's soul that was being burned up was given back to Snorri, as Thungni left.

Some choice quotes, to help explain where I'm pulling this stuff from lol.
Swing, chant, endure.
It heeds, called by the tune.
A fragment of eternity.
Swing, chant, endure.
Something, a part, a fragment of an existence that has always been, slowly begins to crawl up from the depths.
Swing, chant, endure.
The Smith does not know why he keeps hammering, only that he must continue. The beat, the rhythm guides him, the words a vague memory and impression that cannot break through the haze of agony he suffers. His name, his being, he knows are in some part of his mind, but they are too far gone for what remains of his consciousness to reach. It is harder to think, to remember anything aside from the rhythm and the pain. He does not know if his eyes are open, vision was discarded-was discarded at some point. He cannot remember anymore. All he knows is the pain and that he must keep hammering, must hold true to the words and the rhythm. He has forgotten why, but he knows that he must not stop, not until-.

-He does not know.

Eyes form and see that which calls it.
He keeps hammering, he does not know why, only that he must not stop.

Swing, chant, endure.
Brought onto mortal plane.
Swing, chant, endure.

He thinks about stopping, and is surprised to find that another emotion bubbles up. One that is not pain. It is a hot thing, roi-roi-bubbling and bursts like molten metal. Hot and pointy.
Anger.

Yes. Yes, Anger. Anger and shame, that is what this feeling is. He cannot stop, if he stops he will feel angry and ashamed. Angry and ashamed of who? He doesn't know. He only knows that he does not want them. The Smith holds on to that nugget of thought, adds it to what he refuses to forget. He must not stop hammering, must keep with the Rhythm, he must continue or he will feel anger and shame.

He must keep going.
Swing, chant, remember, endure.

The rhythm tells him to move, to grab something, to raise it to the proper position, and to pour.

Hands of rock reach upwards, grasping.
The Smith almost recoils, whatever has happened has only intensified the agony. His body suffers pain the Smith never thought possible, every finger, every speck of skin feels as if it's being plunged into lava, his swinging arm, already more a mass of suffering than a limb, feels as if it is unravelling, curling apart like a length of cordage being unwound. Yet even this pales in comparison to the bone-deep pain he feels from someplace he cannot describe, like a piece of parchment being put to the torch, the Smith feels parts of himself burn, tear and shrivel up from an intense not-heat that nips and bites off larger and larger chunks. Had he vocal cords capable of it he would be screaming, had he a curse to encapsulate his suffering he would bellow it for all to hear. He wants to stop, to let the pain end and let this ragged nugget of Will that stubbornly holds on fade to emptiness.

Legend and myth
But he does not, much as he wishes he did.
S-s-wing, c-hant, re-remember, endure.
C-ch-chant, remember, endure.
Knees finally buckle. Two blows. The hammer's haft disintegrates, the last vestiges of wood turning into blackened ash.
Zharrgal is raised skyward a final time, now held aloft by the tendril of molten flesh, it's head blazing with a teal light so intense that it shines bright enough to overpower the torrent of energy still rushing around it.

It falls, metal screaming as it travels through the air like a falling comet.

The work of the Smith.
Rest.
 
Yeah, what do you mean by that specifically? Cause the players are using...
-[] Waywarding: [Cost: 1 action or retainer action] Gain bonus to Waystone rolls and update on status of Waystones. Can be taken multiple times. [1 Retainer Action]. About once a turn I think.

Sure, none of these actions are being taken....
[ ] [Simple] Re-warding Work: [Cost: 2 actions] Peerless Production will proc. Gain 1 Waystone reroll. There's work to be done, repairing damaged wards and adding new Runes around the monolith and otherwise. Your master most certainly did a bang up job, but there's nothing wrong with contingencies upon contingencies.
[ ] [Difficult] Mysterious Mystery Stones: [Cost: =2 actions] Master of the Odd will proc. What are these things? That is the first question on your mind, the second is what in Grungni's name do they do? These large rocks that the Ancestors bid your folk protect, an enigma in a mystery wrapped in a riddle. Dig through every scrap of lore and knowledge you possess and see if something can be brought to light.
[ ] [Difficult] Wardstones: [Cost: (5 -2) =3 actions] Master of the Odd will proc. These Wardstones, the last creations of the Runesmiths of Karag Dum before they were wiped out, are capable of concealing the presence of a Dawi from the scrying of enemy magic. From Valka's testimony it wasn't perfect, but it made survival possible instead of impossible. That, and given the state of their resources, is a testament to their skill and canniness. A bit too quick to put to use in any other circumstance, uncovering the secrets of this Rune shouldn't be too difficult. Your epiphany after seeing the Rune of Valaya has given you ideas.
- [ ] Prod Yorri: [Cost 1 prod] Gain 1 progress. Yorri has an odd and contemplative look in his eye when he looks at these stones.

But you only want "Mysterious Mystery Stones", right?

Would wardstones be able to protect the waystones if we got the research completed?
Wardstones have nothing to do with the network. They'd be very useful for protecting the network, but they have nothing to do with it. The waystones are the ancient things messing with magic that we've been charged to protect, and that are being attacked and need repairs (and maybe on day rebuilding?). Wardstones are the stealth field rocks the runesmiths of the fallen eastern hold made to hide from the chaos dwarfs.
 
Wardstones have nothing to do with the network. They'd be very useful for protecting the network, but they have nothing to do with it. The waystones are the ancient things messing with magic that we've been charged to protect, and that are being attacked and need repairs (and maybe on day rebuilding?). Wardstones are the stealth field rocks the runesmiths of the fallen eastern hold made to hide from the chaos dwarfs.
A better protected network would mean we lose less waystones each turn. Sure we can repair them, but what good is that if Snorri can't repair them faster then the network is getting torn down?

So wardstones are related to the waystones, indirectly. Meh, something for the future project list.
 
A better protected network would mean we lose less waystones each turn. Sure we can repair them, but what good is that if Snorri can't repair them faster then the network is getting torn down?

So wardstones are related to the waystones, indirectly. Meh, something for the future project list.
Yeah I said that, but I was just laying things out since people seemed to be getting the two mixed up.
 
Yeah I said that, but I was just laying things out since people seemed to be getting the two mixed up.
Well, even if we got the wardstones research begun. There might be more to the wardstone research than what we're seeing.

How well would wardstones work in the war agianst the fimir, or just against the forces of chaos in general on the other campaigns the dawi are participating in? Could an dawi army on the move be hidden?
 
Well, even if we got the wardstones research begun. There might be more to the wardstone research than what we're seeing.

How well would wardstones work in the war agianst the fimir, or just against the forces of chaos in general on the other campaigns the dawi are participating in? Could an dawi army on the move be hidden?
Oh for sure. Hiding troop movements, small encampments, defences, and supply caches. Rangers and Brana would love cloaks and talismans with it. Combining it with the fate related runes to royally screw with Tzeentch's daemons and some elves. It's just that where it sits on our priorities we're not likely to ever go more than a couple stages into researching it.
 
Rune Suggestion:

Master Rune of Drakes
Inspired by the prowess of dragons, this armor rune was created by Fafnir Hreidmarson. Not only is an armor strucken with this rune capable of turning away mighty blows like a dragons scale, it also greatly increases the strength of whoever wears the armor.

Rune of Stockpiling
Stores energy when the object it's runed on gets hit, the energy can later be released to improve nerbying friendly runes.
 
Could you wear a prosthetic arm on a harness and use it like a third arm?
Or a prosthetic eye on the back of a helm be used to gain 360 vision?
Or a held eye be used as a periscope? (or a fibre optic camera to peep down holes)

What is the range of the rune of direction? And can it be used to control a rune of speech?
1. I swear I answered this, lemme check before I get back to you.
2. Rune of Direction maybe a few regular sized rooms? Nothing too far.
@soulcake How does Snorri deal with the possibility of his own equipment potentially being self aware enough to be a breech of his vows of secrecy?
Not sure what this means. Mhorni doesn't speak.
..Huh. Would it theoretically be possible to inscribe the Rune of Siphoning onto the Anvil of the Earth to refill its Major Charges?

Maybe, but don't expect the Rune of Siphoning to do it very quickly.

@soulcake
Rune Suggestion:
Rune of Wicking: When activated any liquid touching one end of the runed item will be pulled to the other.
Maybe. Ill get back to you on this
Rune Suggestion:

Master Rune of Drakes
Inspired by the prowess of dragons, this armor rune was created by Fafnir Hreidmarson. Not only is an armor strucken with this rune capable of turning away mighty blows like a dragons scale, it also greatly increases the strength of whoever wears the armor.

Rune of Stockpiling
Stores energy when the object it's runed on gets hit, the energy can later be released to improve nerbying friendly runes.
Drakes: I think this already exists in effect.
Stockpiling: Can't add due to reasons.
 
[X] Let them come to you. Random Encounter.
[X] Sven Baragmaker nodding in satisfaction as a truly gargantuan Bolt Thrower is hauled into camp.
[X] Brynna quietly watching a group of Zornish warriors go about their duties.
 
[X] Let them come to you. Random Encounter.
[X] Sven Baragmaker nodding in satisfaction as a truly gargantuan Bolt Thrower is hauled into camp.
[X] Brynna quietly watching a group of Zornish warriors go about their duties.
[X] Gimli boisterously speaking with several other Dwarf nobles from other Holds.
 
The opal would be smaller, and there'd be a cutout ring around like a kinda like a halo to let the light shine through from the back. There's also be the sort of patterns, knot and linework you see in a lot of Dwarf stuff all over the eyeball itself and on the gold as well, if only to break up the surface monotony somewhat.
So something kinda like one of these? Pick you fav color combo.
This would be the iris I guess?
 
[X] Let them come to you. Random Encounter.
[X] Sven Baragmaker nodding in satisfaction as a truly gargantuan Bolt Thrower is hauled into camp.
[X] Brynna quietly watching a group of Zornish warriors go about their duties.
 
Could you wear a prosthetic arm on a harness and use it like a third arm?
Or a prosthetic eye on the back of a helm be used to gain 360 vision?
Or a held eye be used as a periscope? (or a fibre optic camera to peep down holes)

Okay someone brought this up on the Discord in passing and I replied there, and that's why I couldn't find it in the thread. I was against it then, but on reflection, I have no real basis to actually stop you besides my own ideas on what's "Dwarfy" aesthetics-wise, which is pretty flimsy and can be overcome in the grand scheme. Basically, I had considered it, and may make the option open to you to research but it's the sort of thing I wanna keep an eye on for aesthetic and characterization purposes because of how it fits into my understanding of the Dwarf mindset. Adding limbs and organs onto yourself as a Dwarf has a pretty big stigma attached, even if said limbs are not biological. There's a bit of a mental gap to bridge. Not insurmountable but it's the sort of thing someone more radical than Snorri would think about, not you.

TLDR: No but it's an avenue of research for you potentially. The caveat is that it has to be brought to you rather than something Snorri would consider on his own.

My mind may change again, given how I realize I'm being weirdly reticent on the idea. Just to be clear though don't expect Dwarf tech-priests with mechadendrites or it to ever be commonplace.

So something kinda like one of these? Pick you fav color combo.
Its a bit different than that. It's the Silver base but the knots are an off-silver/grey rather than gold and sort of completely cover the eyeball rather than act like a ring. Kinda like these.


The pattern would be something like this or similar enough (ignore the colored spheres around the second image) and then the pupil and triangles of the second image you posted would be in the middle of it.
 
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My mind may change again, given how I realize I'm being weirdly reticent on the idea. Just to be clear though don't expect Dwarf tech-priests with mechadendrites or it to ever be commonplace.
My main goals with the questions are:

A) the potential windsight eye, and avoiding the squick factor of removing a prosthetic eye and putting in a new one with any degree of frequency. Could Snorri, for example carry said eye as a talisman, and then activate windsight by holding it in his hand and closing his eyes?

B) A camera equivalent, similar to the eyes of Grimnir from Divided Loyalties. Which would be very useful for Khazgar in times of peace (as a sort of cctv room).

C) a communication device with the rune of Direction and the Rune of Speech. But the range limitation on the rune of direction makes in less suitable for long range communication and limited to an intercom system or an announcement system. Perhaps we could figure out how to increase the range of the rune of direction by studying how waystones transmit energy to the vortex (through the earth) and hitch our rune to that?

I think i kept the quest tag "slave to the aesthetic" in mind when coming up with these.
 
playing around with the idea of a third arm seems like a reasonable stigma when Mutation is a real threat they have to deal with.
 
I'm curious what happens if we put the armor on the elemental; I know its non-physical for the most part unless we are wearing said armor....but its worth a shot to find out no?

...well, maybe not; maybe the armor is what controls the elemental? then again we know the elemental follows us even when we are away from the armor so its self-evident it's still tied to us even without it.
 
I'm curious what happens if we put the armor on the elemental; I know its non-physical for the most part unless we are wearing said armor....but its worth a shot to find out no?

...well, maybe not; maybe the armor is what controls the elemental? then again we know the elemental follows us even when we are away from the armor so its self-evident it's still tied to us even without it.
or maybe craft a shield for the elemental you mean? I mean we have something that is theoretically as strong as snorri with literally infinite stamina, the perfect meat shield/pack mule.
 
Okay someone brought this up on the Discord in passing and I replied there, and that's why I couldn't find it in the thread. I was against it then, but on reflection, I have no real basis to actually stop you besides my own ideas on what's "Dwarfy" aesthetics-wise, which is pretty flimsy and can be overcome in the grand scheme.
Haven't we actually done all of these already when Yorri was teaching us the Runes of Sensation? I distinctly remember Snorri having to go around with a third arm, if only to drive home the point that having a third eye or an extra arm without the accompanying motor skills sucks.

The most sensible solution for Witchsight is probably just a monocle that can shut off your normal vision while it's active so you only have to deal with two eyes.
 
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On additional prosthetics, personally the only one that really makes sense to me as a permanent attachment is a third eye on the forehead for Witchsight.

Apart from that, my thoughts of such things were limited to temporary things. Such as a Rune of Forged Eye on a helmet so that you didn't need eye holes and instead the helmet itself served as your eyes, which would give you a vastly greater range of vision and so situational awareness than wearing a normal helmet. This is surprisingly important, particularly for a commander on a battlefield, as they'd otherwise have to take their helmet off to properly see what was happening at scale, but wearing a helmet literally causes tunnel vision.

I did thing of things like armour with additional limbs attached, such as a limb coming from the lower back like a scorpion's tail that can hold a crossbow. I do my really see them as something a dwarf would modify them with, just as tools they'd learn to use in battle, just as regular weapons are.

Of course, with the right runes, for a real madlad runesmiths such additional limbs could be wings…

playing around with the idea of a third arm seems like a reasonable stigma when Mutation is a real threat they have to deal with.

Mutation is a real threat that humans in WFB have to deal with, but dwarves and elves have much less of an issue with it, apparently.
 
or maybe craft a shield for the elemental you mean? I mean we have something that is theoretically as strong as snorri with literally infinite stamina, the perfect meat shield/pack mule.
I suppose thats a option to; but I'm pondering if it would give the elemental a degree of independence since *us* wearing the armor lets it be more corporeal/physical and more proactive in helping us.

send it off with the retainers for example. (I assume it has a range atm).
 
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