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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Phrux said:
On the fourth hand, nobody else is in position to do anything about the spellcasters and they're about to reshape the battlefield.
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The scouting force coming with us is in that position, as states in the update.

We won't be playing hide and seek with Ulgu because the forest won't let Drycha try - we can see her right now without even trying.

The details at this point have basically been settled - it's been circles since midday. Drycha is more dangerous to us unharassed than in a fight on our terms, and the army won't have an opportunity to react to her move, because speedy in and out has long been her MO and ulgu has lots of tools to let her do it.

We can flip that around because she doesn't know we're here. That applies to this vote and this vote only. After that, she gets to choose options more wisely and we do not want that.

Also, the battle doesn't matter to her except as a distraction to let her pull off the kill unopposed and unharassed. See the Chimera in particular for how she plans to kill Boris without him being able to fight back - it's a distraction carnifex in its purest form. So is the rest of the battle.

Please do not fall for the distraction carnifex. Go for the real threat: Drycha.
 
[X] Spellcasters

@Boney It's not directly relevant to our current predicament, or even our manner of worship, but I have a question that's been burning in my mind for a while.

What happens to the stuff that gets left at shrines as offerings? Does it disappear into the Aethyr? Is it used by the priests or claimed by the temple? Is it burnt?

Particularly stuff that's perishable like food or animal bits. I can't imagine it gets left to rot (because Nurgle if nothing else) but I'm not sure what happens to it.

I ask because youre very knowledgable about Warhammer and historical religion.
 
Oksbad said:
@Boney It's not directly relevant to our current predicament, or even our manner of worship, but I have a question that's been burning in my mind for a while.

What happens to the stuff that gets left at shrines as offerings? Does it disappear into the Aethyr? Is it used by the priests or claimed by the temple? Is it burnt?

Particularly stuff that's perishable like food or animal bits. I can't imagine it gets left to rot (because Nurgle if nothing else) but I'm not sure what happens to it.

I ask because youre very knowledgable about Warhammer and historical religion.
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Sacrifice: sacer fice, to make holy. The original meaning of the word does not actually imply destruction, it means to take something mundane and turn it to holy purpose. Sacrificed meat is eaten by the clergy or the faithful, sacrificed goods are used by the cult or sold to fund it.
 
Prime 2.0 said:
The scouting force coming with us is in that position, as states in the update.
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Pretty sure you are incorrrect?
Boney said:
On the path, a trio of the Dryads have not charged with their fellows, and Ghyran flows through them as they attempt to bend the forest to their will. When the scouts begin to return those three could prove easy prey for them, but to those without Windsight, they might seem a much lesser priority than the Dryads currently engaged - and if left unopposed, they could turn the tide of battle. Milica is closest to them, but is currently engaged with the Dryads in melee.
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When scouts begin to return.
They are not here yet and we don't have areliable way to leave them a message to point them at the casters.
We either hit the casters now, or risk them getting a spell through.
 
Valmond said:
They are not here yet and we don't have areliable way to leave them a message to point them at the casters.
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That is what they said, but I think the scouts aren't stupid. They can't see the winds but they can sure as hell see a group off to the side not doing anything obvious. And Kislev has fought chaos enough that I can't see them not immediately going "caster!" Or otherwise bad news that needs to be interrupted.
 
Valmond said:
Pretty sure you are incorrrect?

When scouts begin to return.
They are not here yet and we don't have areliable way to leave them a message to point them at the casters.
We either hit the casters now, or risk them getting a spell through.
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The scouts are near at hand though, they are closer to the battle than the reinforcements of Johann and co on which a lot of the plans for dealing with Drycha later hang. Right now we are in a position where everyone is busy except Mathilde and Drycha. Do we gamble on her messing about and not causing too much damage until the final reinforcements arrive.
 
Byzantine said:
That is what they said, but I think the scouts aren't stupid. They can't see the winds but they can sure as hell see a group off to the side not doing anything obvious. And Kislev has fought chaos enough that I can't see them not immediately going "caster!" Or otherwise bad news that needs to be interrupted.
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No, they said scouts are in that position.
Which they are not.
They will be, later, probably on time, but the update also specifies that "but to those without Windsight, they might seem a much lesser priority than the Dryads currently engaged".
Any claim that scouts are going to take care of the casters is overstating things.

DragonParadox said:
The scouts are near at hand though, they are closer to the battle than the reinforcements of Johann and co on which a lot of the plans for dealing with Drycha later hang. Right now we are in a position where everyone is busy except Mathilde and Drycha. Do we gamble on her messing about and not causing too much damage until the final reinforcements arrive.
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Or do we gamble on bunch of non wizards realizing that the three dryads hanging back might turn the tide of battle if not killed asap?
Gamble either way.
 
Valmond said:
Or do we gamble on bunch of non wizards realizing that the three dryads hanging back might turn the tide of battle if not killed asap?
Gamble either way.
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I mean if the armies of Kislev cannot hold against one relatively weak Ghyan battle magic spell how are they going to deal with Drycha unleashing her mastery of Ulgu? I think that even if that spell goes off (and it might not) it is less dangerous than Drycha on the loose.
 
DragonParadox said:
I mean if the armies of Kislev cannot hold against one relatively weak Ghyan battle magic spell how are they going to deal with Drycha unleashing her mastery of Ulgu? I think that even if that spell goes off (and it might not) it is less dangerous than Drycha on the loose.
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I'm not sure that "relatively weak" and "battle magic" belong in the same sentence, even before the spell is being cast by three casters as a group, which presumably is going to boost its power.
And the idea that getting plants fight for you, when in a forest, is weak, even relatively, sounds not like a safe bet to make.

Drycha is a mystery box, we do not know what they do next, it might be terrible, it might not, we know what the dryad casters are doing, and that it could turn the tide of battle if they get it off.
 
So I was re-reading some of the quest and noticed this from we interviewed The Stirlander as a candidate to handle the EIC for us:
Boney said:
"The last Haupt-Anderssen sought help where he oughtn't've, though he botched it in the end. His help let them get their claws in deep. Been working towards dismantling it. Got enough information that having to run was worth it, and soon enough there'll be pyres aplenty in Thalheim."
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She probably was hunting the Chaos cult who ended up helping Alberich when he returned and a few got away even with the info she collected. We could have finished the job if we captured him (though that would have been very difficult and dangerous with the buffs he was getting):
Boney said:
Alive he will be the more impressive prize, and he could be convinced to reveal who taught him decades ago and who has sheltered him since.
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Just a fun connection to old events. Also failing to eradicate the Chaos cult a second time is probably going to end up causing problems for someone down the line.

Also while reading this I realized it could have been fun to have to bring The Hochlander with us to Kislev if he was still around. He is a good woodsman and marksman so would have been at least a little useful. He might have left after delivering his report to us at the beginning of the investigation and this kind of fight may not be something we want to drag him into but it could have been fun.
 
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Valmond said:
I'm not sure that "relatively weak" and "battle magic" belong in the same sentence, even before the spell is being cast by three casters as a group, which presumably is going to boost its power.
And the idea that getting plants fight for you, when in a forest, is weak, even relatively, sounds not like a safe bet to make.

Drycha is a mystery box, we do not know what they do next, it might be terrible, it might not, we know what the dryad casters are doing, and that it could turn the tide of battle if they get it off.
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I mean it is relatively weak for battle magic, we know that because of the casting number, we also know Drycha is a Lord and we know just what high level Ulgu looks like. Methinks the armies of Kislev will have more of an issue if their prince gets killed or if they fall screaming into a Pit of Shades than if they have to fight trees, even a lot of trees.
 
LawsOfRobotics said:
Also while reading this I realized it could have been fun to have to bring The Hochlander with us to Kislev if he was still around. He is a good woodsman and marksman so would have been at least a little useful. He might have left after delivering his report to us at the beginning of the investigation and this kind of fight may not be something we want to drag him into but it could have been fun.
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We did bring in the Hochlander to help with the investigation, and he did leave after delivering his report. It gave us very litte:
Boney said:
Lots of data, but no context to make sense of it. The EIC has zero presence in Ostermark so it was basically the Hochlander flying solo, and he uncovered pretty much what Johann said: something's up, but nobody can agree on what. His contacts or reports might come into play later, depending what Mathilde finds out or who she gets in touch with.
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He also gave us some information on the political situation in the Cult of Taal:
Boney said:
"And that they are still hidden is why so many are concerned." He nods to you. "You asked to see the Longshanks, and I can see why you would think they would help. But the hierarchy of the Longshanks makes that difficult - there has not been a Guardian of the Greifwald for generations, and ever since these woods have fallen under the authority of the Guardian of the Schattenwald, whose attentions are focused on Ostland. The Longshanks here are all but independent, and act according to their immediate concerns only." A fact that the Hochlander's reports highlighted for you, and it also included that High Priest Dobromir has been one of the loudest voices pushing for the Guardian of the Greifwald to be restored. These events are, perhaps, a good demonstration of why that should be the case, but that also means that he has a vested interest in ensuring that you find the local Longshanks to be of no help.
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Using the EIC action on this was just a bad choice on our part. The Hochlander is not a hero, he is the manager of a network, and bringing him in to do a job solo in a place where said network has zero presence was a complete mismanagement of our resources.
 
mathymancer said:
Using the EIC action on this was just a bad choice on our part. The Hochlander is not a hero, he is the manager of a network, and bringing him in to do a job solo in a place where said network has zero presence was a complete mismanagement of our resources.
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The results might not have panned out, but it corroborated what Johann found, and if there had been actual activity in Ostermark to find, things could have been very different. I don't consider it a bad choice at all.
 
mathymancer said:
We did bring in the Hochlander to help with the investigation, and he did leave after delivering his report. It gave us very litte:
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I had seen that, it doesn't say that he already left, though it is implied.
mathymancer said:
The Hochlander is not a hero, he is the manager of a network
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He might have been useful if we wanted to send him as a messenger for this action:
Boney said:
[ ] Contact Ostermark
The Tsarevich can grant you the authority to reach out to Ostermark to request their aid on behalf of Kislev, and their military is already mustered at Bechafen. Ride there and request Elector Count Hertwig pushes into the Shirokij from the south as Kislev's forces do so from the north.
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mathymancer said:
bringing him in to do a job solo in a place where said network has zero presence was a complete mismanagement of our resources
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While I agree that what we got from the action was a sub-optimal use of the EIC I was just thinking of ways he could have been a little more useful rather than focusing on the negative of an imperfect decision by the thread.
 
LawsOfRobotics said:
While I agree that what we got from the action was a sub-optimal use of the EIC I was just thinking of ways he could have been a little more useful rather than focusing on the negative of an imperfect decision by the thread.
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Fair.
ReImagined said:
The results might not have panned out, but it corroborated what Johann found, and if there had been actual activity in Ostermark to find, things could have been very different. I don't consider it a bad choice at all.
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There would have been more to find, but there would still have been just a single person to find it. A single person who, while competent, isn't some incredible spy. Using the manager of an organization to do grunt work is just silly, even if said manager happens to have some experience doing that work. I mean at this point why use the EIC action at all? If you feel that the organization is so useless that that we're better of using its manager as a lone agent just disband the information network and hire the Hochlander as a personal employee.
 
DragonParadox said:
The problem is Drycha can also teleport, if this turns into a running battle it is more likely to be a mage duel than anything else and we do not have much in the way of offensive magics.
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Mathilde does however have much in the way of offensive guns.

Codex said:
I will not vote for Leader. Even discounting Metagaming, I genuinely don't see how Mathilde can think that it's a good idea to engage with the mastermind without anyone at her back.
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Mathilde's single most character-defining trait is Grey Wizard. Mathilde's second most character-defining trait is Brave.
 
Andres said:
Mathilde's single most character-defining trait is Grey Wizard. Mathilde's second most character-defining trait is Brave.
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There's that WoG about how Mathilde's dooming was "when abandoned and alone, Morr shalt befriend thee", so she adopted a cat and called it Morr.
Boney said:
It might explain a lot about her, that she considered her doom fulfilled at age 10 and she's been completely free of the strings of fate ever since.
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I headcanon that whenever she faces death, Mathilde just thinks to herself "I called a cat Morr, therefore I am now invincible."
 
mathymancer said:
There would have been more to find, but there would still have been just a single person to find it. A single person who, while competent, isn't some incredible spy. Using the manager of an organization to do grunt work is just silly, even if said manager happens to have some experience doing that work. I mean at this point why use the EIC action at all? If you feel that the organization is so useless that that we're better of using its manager as a lone agent just disband the information network and hire the Hochlander as a personal employee.
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Because there are other things we want to do with the EIC in the future, and this happened to be one time where we valued the Hochlander's skills as an individual over his networking efforts. Sometimes the most efficient path(maximizing synergies) isn't the optimal one in reaching a particular objective (goal-oriented), and we were very focused on the Waystone favour trading actions this turn.

mathymancer said:
There's that WoG about how Mathilde's dooming was "when abandoned and alone, Morr shalt befriend thee", so she adopted a cat and called it Morr.

I headcanon that whenever she faces death, Mathilde just thinks to herself "I called a cat Morr, therefore I am now invincible."
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Shameless omake self plug before I head off :whistle:
 
ReImagined said:
Because there are other things we want to do with the EIC in the future, and this happened to be one time where we valued the Hochlander's skills as an individual over his networking efforts. Sometimes the most efficient path(maximizing synergies) isn't the optimal one in reaching a particular objective (goal-oriented), and we were very focused on the Waystone favour trading actions this turn.
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The EIC action turned out to be bad, and we had every reason to expect it to be bad. If we can't admit our mistake here I can't see how we can ever agree that any action was sub-optimal. Let's just agree to disagree.
ReImagined said:
More Shalt Befriend Thee
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That was lovely.
 
Boney said:
There's two sets of incoming forces: the krugs who were scouting who will show up right behind Mathilde, and the Winged Lancers who are coming down the path with Johann who are further off. The krugs are coming in from the 'side' like Mathilde did so they'd be able to attack the magic users directly, but the Lancers will be coming from the other side of the battle from them.
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On the scouts, we have WoG here that they're coming up right behind Mathilde. They'd be in position to see the spellcasting trio, but we don't have guarantees on what they'd do, and we cannot communicate with them without giving up a 'turn' of battle.

I believe they'd take that free shot at the spellcasters, just a turn later.

Kind of amusing that the Forest Spirits are the ones who left their spellcasters exposed to unscouted inbound forces for a change. Normally they're the ones who do this shit.
 
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