Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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His experience would be quite relevant to this particular decision. There is nothing to indicate that the Burudin have anything all that special to offer us that we need.

I would expect revealing new opinions, perhaps even Alric's, and new commissions. While that sort of stuff can be valuable... eh. The Brotherhood seems to be much friendlier.
We don't know what they could give us because yorri wouldn't talk about it, they definitely have their good sides too but we have a unreliable narrator for the stories about them.
 
[X] [Home:] Embrace
Fine. Fine. If the idiots are choosing to be cheeky and finagle a way to stay in your home, they're going to at least pay for the privilege! It will require a good deal of work, and cost a pretty penny both in time and effort, but if it's going to be done, then it's going to be done right. Your southern colleagues may grumble and growl, but when have they not? You're over a thousand years old, they can suck on a particularly porous piece of pumice for all you care! Unlocks further options.

[X] [Burudin:] Yes:
Gain title, Member of the Burudin. Options Unlocked. Yorri is too plagued by his mysterious old hurts to see the truth. Accept Alric's offer, and join the Burudin.
 
His experience would be quite relevant to this particular decision. There is nothing to indicate that the Burudin have anything all that special to offer us that we need.

This is ridiculous - the greatest Runelords of the Golden Age, including those personally taught by Thungni, have nothing to offer us? All of whom are older and far better runesmiths than Snorri is?

A single cycle of rune trades with just one of their members would be incredibly valuable, because our rune list is frankly shit, to say nothing of the whole host of other potential benefits. Our breadth of master runes is tiny, which sharply limits the options for what we can make - Snorri's best items have been made in spite of that, through uncanny intuition and ridiculous reagents/forging conditions boosting them beyond all sanity. I, for one, would actually like to be able to pick their brains on some of the more bullshit master runes out there, because I want to make cool shit, and we're limited in the cool shit that we can make at present.
 
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We don't know what they could give us because yorri wouldn't talk about it, they definitely have their good sides too but we have a unreliable narrator for the stories about them.
If there was anything other than what Snorri mentioned, which, as I said was "revealing new opinions, perhaps even Alric's, and new commissions" then it is not just Yorri not talking about what we get from joining the Burudin, but Alric too, which really doesn't strengthen the argument to join the Burudin does it?

The Brotherhood of Dron made the obligations and benefits clear from the start up- this isn't going to be all that different.
 
[X] [Home:] Reject
-[X] Find new accommodations
[X] [Burudin:] Yes


I have to agree with Xepheria when it comes to the Burudin. But if we are to join, then it would be best if we don't bring a potential metaphorical Nuclear Warhead to the welcoming ceremony. Making new accommodations for the Runesmiths still reads as something to inspire debates, but at least it's not making what is supposed to be Snorri's home into, a some have called it, University. That's going to raise raise some redflags regardless of if we chose to join the Illuminati Burudin, implying that Snorri has carte blanche for being a member is playing with fire at best.
 
[X] [Home:] Reject
-[X] Find new accommodations
[X] [Burudin:] Yes


I have to agree with Xepheria when it comes to the Burudin. But if we are to join, then it would be best if we don't bring a potential metaphorical Nuclear Warhead to the welcoming ceremony. Making new accommodations for the Runesmiths still reads as something to inspire debates, but at least it's not making what is supposed to be Snorri's home into, a some have called it, University. That's going to raise raise some redflags regardless of if we chose to join the Illuminati Burudin, implying that Snorri has carte blanche for being a member is playing with fire at best.

Consider - University + Burudin is funny.

And that's reason enough to do it :V
 
So if we vote yes we don't get a say if the oats go "and you only shall teach 10 people in a century." or something like that?
What? No. The Burudin has no official power, they have an incredible amount of soft power yes, but they don't make or have the power to make official policy and Runelord and Runesmiths have gone against what the majority of them say before. I should also point out that the Burudin are not a Monolith and getting them to agree on anything is hard for anything with any level of nuance or complexity.

Durin's idea was that having all the greatest Runelords in the Karaz Ankor together in a room would inevitably lead to innovation and development through sheer exposure to each other, whether it be helping or one-upping each other.
 
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In my Experience, you don't change something form the inside unless you're so actively calling it out you're practically a pariah within in anyway. And that's without getting into Dwarves being inherently conservative by nature.

We have the option to leave and challenge the system without the unwritten rules that come with it. Ergo:

[X] [Burudin:] No

No really big stakes on the Students.
Long Answer: the name of the Rune means nothing. You definitely have a Rune that would accelerate a projectile, but idk what I'd name it. That actually highlights something and maybe I should change it. >_>
Clearly it'd be the Rune of Sufficient Velocity :V
 
What? No. The Burudin has no official power, they have an incredible amount of soft power yes, but they don't make or have the power to make official policy and Runelord and Runesmiths have gone against what the majority of them say before. I should also point out that the Burudin are not a Monolith and getting them to agree on anything is hard for anything with any level of nuance or complexity.

Durin's idea was that having all the greatest Runelords in the Karaz Ankor together in a room would inevitably lead to innovation and development through sheer exposure to each other, whether it be helping or one-upping each other.
Perfect, that's exactly what I hoped for. They only have as much power as prestige gives them and they wouldn't have any binding rules except reasonable ones (secrecy and maybe mutual help in case of catastrophe.)
 
[X] [Home:] Embrace
Fine. Fine. If the idiots are choosing to be cheeky and finagle a way to stay in your home, they're going to at least pay for the privilege! It will require a good deal of work, and cost a pretty penny both in time and effort, but if it's going to be done, then it's going to be done right. Your southern colleagues may grumble and growl, but when have they not? You're over a thousand years old, they can suck on a particularly porous piece of pumice for all you care! Unlocks further options.

[X] [Burudin:] Yes:
Gain title, Member of the Burudin. Options Unlocked. Yorri is too plagued by his mysterious old hurts to see the truth. Accept Alric's offer, and join the Burudin.
 
[X] [Home:] Reject
- [X] Find new accommodations: In removing one problem, that being the overcrowding of your home, you have created another. Perhaps it is no concern of yours, but you will do what you can to find a way to house them now that squatting in your home is no longer an option. Unlocks further options.

[X] [Burudin:] Yes:
Gain title, Member of the Burudin. Options Unlocked. Yorri is too plagued by his mysterious old hurts to see the truth. Accept Alric's offer, and join the Burudin.
 
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[X] [Burudin:] Yes:
[X] [Home:] Reject
- [X] Find new accommodations: In removing one problem, that being the overcrowding of your home, you have created another. Perhaps it is no concern of yours, but you will do what you can to find a way to house them now that squatting in your home is no longer an option. Unlocks further options.
 
This is ridiculous - the greatest Runelords of the Golden Age, including those personally taught by Thungni, have nothing to offer us? All of whom are older and far better runesmiths than Snorri is?

A single cycle of rune trades with just one of their members would be incredibly valuable, because our rune list is frankly shit, to say nothing of the whole host of other potential benefits. Our breadth of master runes is tiny, which sharply limits the options for what we can make - Snorri's best items have been made in spite of that, through uncanny intuition and ridiculous reagents/forging conditions boosting them beyond all sanity. I, for one, would actually like to be able to pick their brains on some of the more bullshit master runes out there, because I want to make cool shit, and we're limited in the cool shit that we can make at present.
Hm. That is a good point. I'm not sure if I am going to change my vote, but I don't think so. I'm mostly following Yorri's advice in regards to it. I regard the housing vote to be more important.

I don't want to cheapen Karstah's decision to live in our workshop by allowing other Runesmiths to (temporarily) live in our workshop. But I am fairly certain "Runesmith university" is going to win that one...
 
Snorri has the prestige and respect to turn down the Burudin position and make his own way.
The beardlings emulating him do not have that level of prestige.

Accepting gives them something to point to and say their actions are acceptable at the highest levels of the guild.
I think that kind of representation is important for people.

Also it draws focus to us for Skarrenbaraz big reveal.

[x] [Home:] Embrace
[x] [Burudin:] Yes:
 
Snorri's Thoughts and beliefs of the Burudin and Primer on Durin the Lost
Durin's stated goal for founding the Burudin was to gather the greatest Runesmiths in the Guild together on a regular basis to, in his words, "push the art of Runecraft forward." It was his belief that by having the brightest minds speak in what was essentially an open forum, then the best ideas and innovations would come out of the crucible of frank discussion and fair critique. Whether it would be through cooperation between colleagues or one-upmanship between rivals, the eldest son of Thungni reckoned Runesmithing would benefit from the results regardless. What Durin may have failed to account for, scandalous as the thought may be, was that the best Runesmiths in the realms were usually the oldest and most influential as well. So it was that as time passed, the prestige of those Runesmiths became the prestige of the organization, and soon it was seen that the Burudin were the best of the best because they were in the Burudin and not the Burudin accepting only the best. Not anyone could just join, for it required a majority agreement from the group itself, and because latter members conflated the purpose and prestige of the Burudin, the cycle perpetuated itself. Now only the oldest and most prestigious Runelords and very select Masters may join, for in the minds of the Guild and Burudin that is what it takes to be a member of the group.

Or at least that's what Snorri believes, after having listened to Yorri rant and rave about the Burudin becoming a political creature that has grown to ignore its founding purpose.

I've been told that there may be recency bias with how the Burudin were portrayed by some concerned voters, and upon review, I can see the argument has some merit. I'll add the above blurb, or some form of it to the update though, just as an FYI.

Thanks. :^)

EDIT: On Durin,
Durin Thungnisson, the Eldest, the Greatest, the Lost.

The firstborn son of Thungni would be claimed to be Radical and Conservative by both sides, then again he started Runesmithing well before any such sides had formed. Mighty were his deeds, and revolutionary were his works. Durin was obsessed with pushing the art of Runecraft forward, and after learning all he could from his Father and being deemed worthy of Mastery, he set about that goal with gusto. Developing many Runes that today are foundational to the art, though never as much as his father. Similarly, many of the traditions Masters follow that were not set by Thungni were set by his son. Durin travelled Northwards with his family as they forged the path northwards, settling Dwarf Holds as they went. The eldest of Thungni's children was prolific because of the number of students he personally taught, teaching promising young Kinsmen until shortly before his disappearance several hundred years ago. His was the mind that first found the Consternation that was named after him. His was one of the first hands to bend and forge Gromril, taught by his Uncle, Grandfather and Father after its discovery. During his long life, he founded two groups who are famed and remembered to this day, the Burudin, and later the Brotherhood of Dron. The first, as all know, to be a forum that fostered the development and innovation of new Runes and combinations of thereof, and the other to, unofficially, find a material that could bear more than three Runes of power. Of the many things that can be said of him, all could agree that Durin was a pioneer. A visionary who was not content to follow in his father's footsteps, but wanted to truly walk beside Him.

When the second moon joined the sky, and Daemons began to stalk the land, Durin was already old enough for his mighty white beard to reach around his waist seven times over. A Runelord, the first to achieve such a rank and one proudly bestowed to him by his father, who was equipped in some of the finest gear of his age. At a time when Runelore was not yet as advanced or complex, Durin accomplished feats modern Runesmiths could not with a far greater repertoire of tools. Alongside his siblings, but more often on his own, Durin broke the back of armies and slew numerous champions of Darkness. He was the slayer of two lieutenants of foul Ku'gath, it was he who smote the Elder Wyrm Fellfang and fashioned the Warhammer, Rhungrund, and the Runestaff, Dumokri, from its body. There are numerous tales that tell of him cracking the earth asunder, of sending the highest peaks tumbling to the ground with but a single tap of his staff, and of splitting the sky with cascading pillars of flame with these mighty, now lost, artifacts.

Of his fate, none can say. Only that centuries before the Pillars of Valaya were built within Karaz a Karak, Durin disappeared Northwards, farther than any Dwarf would go for hundreds of years yet still. The war against the daemonic hordes, it is said, drove him to search for a definitive answer with the use of Runecraft. The Dwarfs did not despair when one year passed and he did not return, nor when it became one decade, then two, then three and four, but half a century after his disappearance did the last embers of hope die when Thungni finally claimed His son was gone from this world. He was not the first of the Ancestor's children to lose their lives, but he was certainly the most keenly felt among the Guild he had been a part of since its inception.
 
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[X] [Burudin:] Yes:
Gain title, Member of the Burudin. Options Unlocked. Yorri is too plagued by his mysterious old hurts to see the truth. Accept Alric's offer, and join the Burudin.

I stated my views.

[X] [Home:] Embrace
Fine. Fine. If the idiots are choosing to be cheeky and finagle a way to stay in your home, they're going to at least pay for the privilege! It will require a good deal of work, and cost a pretty penny both in time and effort, but if it's going to be done, then it's going to be done right. Your southern colleagues may grumble and growl, but when have they not? You're over a thousand years old, they can suck on a particularly porous piece of pumice for all you care! Unlocks further options.

And I'm a softie. Sue me.
 
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[X] [Burudin:] Yes:
[X] [Home:] Reject
- [X] Find new accommodations: In removing one problem, that being the overcrowding of your home, you have created another. Perhaps it is no concern of yours, but you will do what you can to find a way to house them now that squatting in your home is no longer an option. Unlocks further options.
 
sounds like we should reject the organization that no longer serves its original purpose and instead is working against it instead.

[X] [Burudin:] No:
[X] [Home:] Reject
-[X] Find new accommodations: In removing one problem, that being the overcrowding of your home, you have created another. Perhaps it is no concern of yours, but you will do what you can to find a way to house them now that squatting in your home is no longer an option. Unlocks further options.
 
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