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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Ericwinter said:
Considering how much gold we actually picked up, I would say it's a legitimate concern. Probably more than an entire village will see in a generation. :V
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According to Old World Armoury, the average peasant earns roughly 10 Imperial Gold Crowns a year (edit: book actually says 9-15, I simplified to 10, which is on the low side), which roughly converts to 9.5 Kislev Ducats. We found 1,350 ducats, which is the collective yearly wages of around 140 peasants. A quick search tells me the average population of a medieval village is about 250-300 people, so we stole about half a villages worth of yearly wealth.

Note that Old World Armoury also claims the average non-vow-of-poverty Wizard Lord earns between 300-800 Imperial Gold Crowns a year. So that's about two to four years worth of wealth for someone of our stature.

Suddenly the Vow of Poverty is starting to make a lot of sense.
 
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bigbow said:
2) The thread is still thinking like a Dwarf with all the talk of 'unacceptable ways' and how lost they are to even so much as look at potentially iffy ways of defending themselves (and in that same vein, taking Borek's word for it). Just because whatever they did would be deeply offensive to the pathologically traditionalist Dwarfs of the Karak Anzor (and even perhaps to the dwarfs of Karak Dum themselves) doesn't mean that it has to be deeply offensive to Mathilde. They could still be a valuable member of Order even if all the other Dwarfs in the Old World spit in their faces. Another instance of Divided Loyalties, but one which would present a clear choice at least as far as I'm concerned.
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LightLan said:
@BoneyM
Am I correct in the thought that even if they have enslaved/mindcontrolled/collared Morghur the reaction of the Karaz Ankor and the Empire would still be kill it with fire and those that went so close to Chaos too?
As far as Mathilde believes, of course.
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BoneyM said:
Most likely, yes. The precedent for Dwarves and minor Chaos deities isn't exactly fantastic.
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Even if the best case it is and Morghur is fully controlled by Karak Dum, neither the Karaz Ankor nor the Empire will like it or trust in it.

The only other precedent for Dwarves and Chaos deities are the Dawi-Zharr and we know how that went.
And that's what both Empire and Karaz Ankor will be thinking.
 
The fucking Shadowgave, and 100 pages of thread in a day. I am made of What The Fuck.

I don't have much actual comment but personally - bearing in mind I'm furiously studying for exams and don't have time to catch up with discussion - I'm all for turning everyone else the fuck around and gathering what information we can by skirting the edges, ready to immediately bail at a moment's notice.
 
Nerdasaurus Rex said:
Mathilde then: Oh no I hope my witch hunter boss doesn't catch me embezzling to pay off my student loans
Mathilde now: Oh no I hope the Bursar doesn't catch me returning from the wastes with more money than I left with
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She'd be much more concerned if we somehow acquired that many while in the Empire.
Stole it from the enemies of Order is an easy sell.
 
[X] THEORY: The Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Perhaps it had an effect on the Beastmen here, Cor-Dum included.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[X] ACTION: Project a message in the air: What the fuck Borek (but more politely worded.)
 
The answer for what's going on is clearly all of the above. Why pick one possibility when we can pick them all.

The environment is a result of a dwarf super-weapons + Chaos Wastes weirdness + Athel Loren Forest magic moving in.

Morghur is a result of a dryad wearing disguise runes + the real Morghur is chained up in basement.

The beastmen are real beguiled beastmen + woodland critters wearing disguises because they think it's funny + disguised golems.

Also Morghur is Borek's brother for some reason because why not.
 
Starting to get nervous about the truth being any good, honestly. I would sure like it to be! Is was convinced by the extant evidence! But at the same time, very nervous
 
HungryHamadryad said:
Using runes to 'purify' a Beastman would definitely be some serious heresy in the eyes of the Runelords. Nevermind intentionally creating more of them + whatever ghetto modification you had to make to your runes behind the local halfpipe in order to achieve it.
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According to dwarf culture,

Purging dark magic= Awesome, ancestor approved
Harnessing dark magic= shameful, grudgeworthy

Any modifications to runes to harness dark magic or create beastmen also don't fall under 'pugring'.


Sovereign Hunt said:
These are Dawi, remember. They have pretty warped standards for what constitutes "shameful", and putting the safety of an entire Karak in the hands of a beastman (even a purified one) sure as hell counts.
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Borek didn't hesitate to make a deal with the Chaos Dwarves in order to get here. Whatever this is, it's much, much worse than that.
 
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This is not a theory because I am just spitballing:

1. Where comes the forest from HERE?
Over a century time and access to a functioning and uncorupted waystone. Getting enough green wind to support it is nearly trivial.
2. There is a desert?
Drawf artifice to hem in the forest.
3. How could he cross it unaturally fast?
He did not. As a resident he was not slowed.
4. What is that demigod doing here?
They have been missing for a time that match to loosing contact with the Karak. Because their warning of the comming chaos was denied because of it the drawfs 'bound/sealef' it. When it got desperate it was used to defend the Karak.

That is the best I have
 
"What the rest of Karaz Ankor and the Empire think about Karag Dum," seems not actually that important given their remoteness? I'm honestly not sure how anybody kept up the lines of communication with these guys before the Great War Against Chaos. I guess like Karak Azul, they got the occasional heavily armored caravan every decade or so.

If there's anybody at Karag Dum who desperately wants to "get out" I would support taking them. If they think the situation is long term untenable and they need help to plan a mass evacuation at some point in the next century, I'd like to open lines of communication and help them plan for that. That's the sort of thing I think is important here.
 
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.

I think this is the most accurate explanation of the data available to us. Still not sure if investigating is better than cutting our losses or not.
 
Briefvoice said:
"What the rest of Karaz Ankor and the Empire think about Karag Dum," seems not actually that important given their remoteness? I'm honestly not sure how anybody kept up the lines of communication with these guys before the Great War Against Chaos. I guess like Karak Azul, they got the occasional heavily armored caravan every decade or so.

If there's anybody at Karag Dum who desperately wants to "get out" I would support taking them. If they think the situation is long term untenable and they need help to plan a mass evacuation at some point in the next century, I'd like to open lines of communication and help them plan for that. That's the sort of thing I think is important here.
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The Empire's opinion is important because half our troops are from the Empire.
The Karaz Ankor's opinion is important because the other half of our troops are from the Karaz Ankor.

Any Dwarf walking out of Karak Dum is at serious risk of a lynching.
 
Why can't we all present all the theories to the council instead of a single or two theories, the vague the dwarves gone radical resort to desperate measures to survive, it will give the council group more info and help persuade them to get the exact measure of Karag Dum. The more theories we present, the more the wizards and the council members will be able to contribute by supporting or debunking some of them.

We have to know what is going on. What happens to Karag Dum may impact Karag Vlag, which we just rescued, hate to waste all the hard work Mathilde did.
 
Katahiraga said:
Why can't we all present all the theories to the council instead of a single or two theories, the vague the dwarves gone radical resort to desperate measures to survive, it will give the council group more info and help persuade them to get the exact measure of Karag Dum. The more theories we present, the more the wizards and the council members will be able to contribute by supporting or debunking some of them.

We have to know what is going on. What happens to Karag Dum may impact Karag Vlag, which we just rescued, hate to waste all the hard work Mathilde did.
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Narrative space. If we presented everything we would have 4k words worth of reformulating votes and that is not fun for anyone.
 
Katahiraga said:
Why can't we all present all the theories to the council instead of a single or two theories, the vague the dwarves gone radical resort to desperate measures to survive, it will give the council group more info and help persuade them to get the exact measure of Karag Dum. The more theories we present, the more the wizards and the council members will be able to contribute by supporting or debunking some of them.

We have to know what is going on. What happens to Karag Dum may impact Karag Vlag, which we just rescued, hate to waste all the hard work Mathilde did.
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Because we are the expert (horrifying thought) on the subject and in leadership position, there is no need, or use, in loading them with every possible thing that might have happened, so we go with the most likely/popular ones.
More theories we present, less informed and authorative we appear, and less control we have of the situation.
We are the Wizard Lord and Lorekeeper, this is our job and responsibility, and asking others to do our job is like a general putting their battle plan up to a vote with the common soldiers.

No we do not. Knowing what happened is not necessary, possibly useful, if possible (not guaranteed), but we do not have to know.
 
Katahiraga said:
Why can't we all present all the theories to the council instead of a single or two theories, the vague the dwarves gone radical resort to desperate measures to survive, it will give the council group more info and help persuade them to get the exact measure of Karag Dum. The more theories we present, the more the wizards and the council members will be able to contribute by supporting or debunking some of them.

We have to know what is going on. What happens to Karag Dum may impact Karag Vlag, which we just rescued, hate to waste all the hard work Mathilde did.
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We are presenting the leading theories. Not all of them, but not just one either.

BoneyM said:
No, the leading possibilities will win.

Mathilde will present the leading theories and courses of action as possibilities to the rest of the Council.
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The Lone badger said:
Or maybe you put up your own banner before you go to challenge it, so it can speak for your courage if you don't return.
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We definitely gotta do that if we decide to go in for more info.
@BoneyM Does Mathilde carry anything like a banner or a different item with her heraldry on it? I know she has one at her Towers, but not if she carries one around like almost every knight (which is something that she is) would.
 
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
 
Deathbybunnies said:
It's going to be so embarrassing/infuriating if Mathilde gets taken in by a trick and doesn't even bring up the possibility that it's not the real Cor-Dum, when it's missing its most defining characteristics: A hyper-mutation aura, and being so insane it literally couldn't interact with Borek in the manner demonstrated.
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It will be even more embarrassing/infuriating if Mathilde just tells the others that it isn't the real Cor-Dum based on very little evidence and it turns out that it is the real one.
 
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