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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[X] [Action] wait nearby and observe. It shouldn't be nearly as dangerous as it seems, and that allows us to gather additional clues.
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[X] [Theory] All we know is that it is friendly and non chaotic. That is enough for now.
[X] ACTION: Expedition: Digs in; Mathilde: Investigates

[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is using a fake Morghur to make the real beastmen fight for them.

Dammit, I can't make up my mind. All I know is, immediately jumping to "Dwarfs gone evil, we must condemn them and consider them Chaos", even though almost all data points otherwise, is not the way to go. Neither is giving up without even freaking trying to investigate.

The whole reason why we have been so successful, when so many Dwarfs haven't been, is that we are willing to resort to strange and counterintuitive solutions, especially for Dwarfs. It is so Dwarf to immediately assume the worst and declare a Grudge. It is Mathilde to investigate and discover or use something that the Dwarfs would have missed, to turn the tide. That cannot happen if we adapt Dwarf cynicism and just immediately give up without trying.
 
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So does anyone have a theory in which there are dwarves that need saving? Because if not, we should turn back, not gain more information. Really, my theory explains my reasoning:
Abhorsen said:
[x] [THEORY]: There are no dwarves to save. Either the "Cor-Dum" we saw is somehow fake, in which case the dwarves hold the place, and need no help holding it; Cor-Dum is real and allied somehow with the dwarves, in which case the dwarves are not worth our trouble as they have allied with chaos; or Cor-Dum is real and conquered Karag Dum, in which case there are no dwarves left to save.
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[X] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
 
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is fallen, and has made a pact with Morghur.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum has turned to forbidden arts, and Borek left in shame.
[x] [THEORY]: There are no dwarves to save. Either the "Cor-Dum" we saw is somehow fake, in which case the dwarves hold the place, and need no help holding it; Cor-Dum is real and allied somehow with the dwarves, in which case the dwarves are not worth our trouble as they have allied with chaos; or Cor-Dum is real and conquered Karag Dum, in which case there are no dwarves left to save.

[X] ACTION: Turn back
 
pucflek said:
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is using a fake Morghur to make the real beastmen fight for them.

Its the one i made up and it actually seems rather likely, or at least possible? I certainly want to get it to the top to get it mentioned, because it actually seems like a real possibility.
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If it's a fake Morghur, where is the real one that has been missing for about as long as Karag Dum?

Much more likely Morghur has revived here and has been here since he was last seen hunted down by wood elves 200 years ago.
 
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DragonParadox said:
Reality is flinching from this being, that is a sign of corruption, we just aren't seeing it to standard Morghur levels
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Reality flinching can happen by any wind of mag...ic...

Maybe... maybe that's the forbidden thing they did, maybe they tapped into the waystones and used magic even though they knew the Karaz Ankor needed them and that Dawi using magic=bad. Borek knew about the Waystones, after all.

How to put that on a theory though... its forbidden knowledge.
 
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Andres110 said:
The lower levels of dhar compared to everywhere else in the Chaos Wastes including around Morghur himself.
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This is misinterpretation tho. I mean, i am leaning closer to the fake Morghur theory over the Enslaved Morghur theory now too, because BoneyM said that the reality screaming around "Morghur" could be a Runelord vs Reality effect. Possibly, but not with certainity. The only Runelord we got description on as far as magical effect went said "reality congeals" in update when Kragg joins the expedition. So "The reality flinching" around Morghur could almost certainly point to his classical aura too. Its a coin toss really.
 
Well, this was an interesting update. My first thought: @BoneyM does this affect the money that we owe Borek in anyway? :V

My second thought is if we have any spells we can use to collect any more information. We have a lot of mages here.
 
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@BoneyM
Am I correct in the thought that even if they have enslaved/mindcontrolled/collared Morghur the reaction of the Karaz Ankor and the Empire would still be kill it with fire and those that went so close to Chaos too?
As far as Mathilde believes, of course.
 
I am now certain that they have tapped the Waystone juice and are using it to make strong magic, which would be shameful enough for Borek.

@BoneyM , how to put that on a theory without revealing forbidden knowledge?
 
SuperSonicSound said:
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum is fallen, and has made a pact with Morghur.
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This is a poor theory. If Karag Dum fell to Chaos, there'd be more dhar around the area, not less. If it simply made a pact with Morghur, there wouldn't be so little dhar, especially around Morghur. If Dum fell in the sense that all the dwarves are dead, then there'd be no one to make a pact with Morghur and Borek's actions would've been different.
 
Abhorsen said:
So does anyone have a theory in which there are dwarves that need saving? Because if not, we should turn back, not gain more information. Really, my theory explains my reasoning:
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Sure, the hold is full of Dwarves who are binding Beastmen and engaging in radical Runesmith experiments to survive, but haven't turned to Chaos.
The world isn't black and white, and I have no particular care if they've engaged in some manner of Runesmith heresy as long as they aren't aligned with Chaos; we've read the Liber Mortis for goodness' sake.
 
storryeater said:
This vote is kind of a clusterfuck. Multiple people seem to be voting for the same thing but different variations of it.
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Uncurated write-ins will be like that, especially in a vote this complex. F for BoneyM having to parse this out at the end.
Andres110 said:
Reality is not flinching from this being. It flinches from normal Morghur, but as Boney has said, dhar levels look below normal even around this Morghur.
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Yes it did. It's in the text of the update, and Boney clarified:
BoneyM said:
She's heard stories, and his crest and his effect on reality are pretty distinctive.

It means exactly that. Reality is something Mathilde can sense like we can lights and sounds, and it just shuddered.
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My take is "this is the real Morghur, they either captured and bound him for defense or he was reborn as a dwarf and they bound him that way, we need to leave," and I have voted for the options that seem most in line with that rather than add my own write-ins to this mess.

[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[x] [ACTION]: Turn back.
[x] THEORY: Karag Dum may have found a way to create and control beastmen.
[x] THEORY: Gor Dum is either a mutated dwarf or controlled by a dwarf, look at how he reacted to Borek.
[x] THEORY: Karag Dum is fallen, and has made a pact with Morghur.
[x] THEORY: Karag Dum has somehow tricked or compelled Morghur to fight the Kurgan tribes.
[x] THEORY: Omegahugger
 
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DragonParadox said:
More likely they weren't able to see through the aftermath of the Incursion.
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Yes, because there was Dhar and magic everywhere. Like it is in the middle of Chaos Wastes. Where we currently are. I know the Dhar levels are lower than they should be here, but they are still way higher than anywhere "not chaos wastes". Including Karak Vlag. Mathilde also mostly found out by infohazard, not actually seeing.
 
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pucflek said:
This is misinterpretation tho. I mean, i am leaning closer to the fake Morghur theory over the Enslaved Morghur theory now too, because BoneyM said that the reality screaming around "Morghur" could be a Runelord vs Reality effect. Possibly, but not with certainity. The only Runelord we got description on as far as magical effect went said "reality congeals" in update when Kragg joins the expedition. So "The reality flinching" around Morghur could almost certainly point to his classical aura too. Its a coin toss really.
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Can you gimme a link to the post where Boney said reality's screaming around Morghur? The only post I've seen regarding that is the update, and that read to me more like what Mathilde has heard of Morghur reputation-wise than what she was actually seeing.
 
Quest said:
Well, this was an interesting update. My first thought: @BoneyM how does this affect the money that we owe Borek? :V
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Depends. If he and his Hold are judged to be enemies of the Dawi, it's null and void. If not, then the matter should be turned over to Loremasters at Karaz-a-Karak for them to trace the family trees to work out who is the closest living relative.

LightLan said:
@BoneyM
Am I correct in the thought that even if they have enslaved/mindcontrolled/collared Morghur the reaction of the Karaz Ankor and the Empire would still be kill it with fire and those that went so close to Chaos too?
As far as Mathilde believes, of course.
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Most likely, yes. The precedent for Dwarves and minor Chaos deities isn't exactly fantastic.

storryeater said:
I am now certain that they have tapped the Waystone juice and are using it to make strong magic, which would be shameful enough for Borek.

@BoneyM , how to put that on a theory without revealing forbidden knowledge?
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If you don't want to share the information with the Council, don't vote for it.
 
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