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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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Wait. Wait hold up.
@BoneyM how does mathilde know this is Cor dum?
She's never seen the shadowgave. Beastmen have never been her enemy of choice.
Yeah there's the yusak telling her he's there, but
 
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@BoneyM
What exactly does "reality flinches away" mean? Is Morghur corrupting something or someone around it, radiates Dhar, just makes Wind jump away?
DragonParadox said:
using Chaos you will inevitably fall to its corrupting influence
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In this case "inevitably" can very well mean "not yet" and might very well last "until the situation is no longer desperate enough for this" - if they do, in fact, use Morgur and Chaos.
 
lord_Bren said:
I can see two real possibilities here. I think Boreks words and actions to us hold the key. What we know is that borek knew this was a possibility, and didnt like it but still accepted it. Furthermore he said that they had tried as hard as they could, and told us to go home. They are obviously hostile to the local chaos tribes, and werent corrupted to the point where anyone could tell the difference with Borek.
1. The dawi here went into really dark shit to survive, and managed to chain/somehow ally with the shadowgave to fight chaos as the last option despite hating it. Kinda like parts of this thread using dhar at times, and probably with most of the same rationalizations. If this is the case, there is nothing else we can do. We cant rescue them because they dont want to be rescued, and everyone else will refuse to accept them anyway. If we kill the shadowgave it respawns somewhere else without its bindings, leaving chaos open to consolidate its power.
2. Borek was replaced by a greater demon of Tzeentch and what we see is designed to trick us in some way. If this is true it still doesnt explain quite a bit, and going forward would have both the shadowgave AND a greater demon of tzeentch on our asses. Should Morghur also be an illusion we might be able to win that, but any amount of inspection should be able to see through it. If it doesnt, either it's real or the demon is a massively strong on a scale far eclipsing us. In both options, rushing in is suicide.

I cant think of any other feasible options that could be going on. Continuting is suicide.
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There is a difference between Dhar and Chaos. The former is not sentient, the latter is. To make a deal with Chaos, to use it is to Fall.
 
Well, regardless what theory we come up with, in the end we can only gain certainty by further investigating, so that's where my vote will go.
 
So, random thought, but is it possible this is a perfectly normal, not chaos-y creation at all, and the chaos Morghur we all know and fear was an attempt by the Chaos Gods to pervert the concept for their own ends? That seems like something they would do.
 
King Arthur said:
Here's my theory.

Dum isn't actually in the chaos wastes.

You can only reach it and exit it via the wastes, but the actual location is somewhere in the south, its just that the roads to and out of Dum are in the wastes.

The beastmen are an illusion, and we can't tell because the magic of the illusion is happening elsewhere and we are only seeing the results.

My strongest pieces of evidence are the fact that the temperature is weird, I think I remember Mattie seeing somethin weird about the actual spatial distance between us and the Beastmen, and that the Beast men demigod showed Borek affection.

Even if Borek was a literal demon in disguise, we wouldn't see affection from this specific Beast men, its not capable of it. That's another Dwarf.
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Karak Zorn was actually Karak Dum the entire time?
 
agumentic said:
@BoneyM
What exactly does "reality flinches away" mean? Is Morghur corrupting something or someone around it, radiates Dhar, just makes Wind jump away?

In this case "inevitably" can very well mean "not yet" and might very well last "until the situation is no longer desperate enough for this" - if they do, in fact, use Morgur and Chaos.
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They still tainted the works of the Ancestors by turning them to binding Chaos. That they still have some lines they won't cross yet means nothing. There is no one to talk to in Dun, only monsters or monsters-to-be.
 
DocMatoi said:
@BoneyM how does mathilde know this is Cor dum?
She's never seen the shadowgave. Beastmen have never been her enemy of choice.
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She's heard stories, and his crest and his effect on reality are pretty distinctive.

agumentic said:
@BoneyM
What exactly does "reality flinches away" mean? Is Morghur corrupting something or someone around it, radiates Dhar, just makes Wind jump away?
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It means exactly that. Reality is something Mathilde can sense like we can lights and sounds, and it just shuddered.

Sovereign Hunt said:
Can we make out what kind of energies they are with our Windsight (Dhar, Wind, neutral, ???)? Or is it too distant?
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Too distant with the air this thick with Dhar.

Ekzentric Lohner said:
@BoneyM Mathilde could see reality breaking down around "Morghur" - did she see how that effect interacted with Borek, either via Windsight or via mundane sight?
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As far as she can tell, it didn't. But he was some distance away.
 
[ ] THEORY: The Dwarves do not serve the Beastmen, or else the Waystone would be corrupted. The Beastmen serve the Dwarves.
[ ] ACTION: Consult Ambers on what the fuck.

[ ] THEORY: The Dwarves have learned to tap the waystone to create something not unlike the Eonir, binding themselves to the land and reshaping the land and even space itself into forest. The desert is the dwarves stealing life from elsewhere to feed their forest. The Beastmen are super impressed by this pooling of raw Chaos and came to subscribe to their newsletter.
[ ] ACTION: Consult Cyrston on what the fuck.

[ ] THEORY: Borek was driven to find reinforcements of like-minded forest-dwarves. Dwarves who are willing to kickflip existing Rune doctrine and get radical. In 200 years, he never could. The Redbeards without a Karak like Snorri and the talented Clanless like Gotrek are as close as Dwarves come (he's never met Gotri, more's the pity). He wasn't worried about food on the way back because he hoped they would choose to settle here.
[ ] ACTION: Visit Borek, request explanation of what the fuck.

[ ] THEORY: There are stories of beings identical to Morghur stretching back throughout recorded history. This creature isn't acting like Morghur, and Morghur was last seen in Bretonnia. Therefore, the creature is not Morghur.
[ ] ACTION: Consult the Expedition Dwarves on history of what the fuck.

[ ] THEORY: Borek was resigned to see not-Morghur. Not-Cor Dum was created by Karag Dum as a weapon of last resort, using their radical runecraft and their extensive knowledge of Chaos to bind raw Chaos-stuff into a sturdy form, not unlike Bok is Wind-stuff bound by runes into elemental form. Borek is disappointed to see Plan Z deployed, but not surprised. Knowing that the Expedition Dwarves would never accept them for going beyond the moral event horizon, he gave up on returning Dum to the Karak Ankor and has decided to live out his days as a forest-dwarf.
[ ] ACTION: You have Windsage and Avatar. Get closer to Not-Cor Dum, see what the fuck.
 
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Hunter531 said:
No way. There is no possible way that Morghur has been bound/built by a bunch of crazy Dawi. He would never get the kind of respect by Beastfolk that he gets in canon if he was.
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He's insane there are all sorts of ways they might have tricked him. His binding might be similar to how we talk about binding an apparition. He might just be blind to anything that Dum doesn't want him to see or similar tricks.
 
The confounding factor here is the waystone. The fact that it's still there and uncorrupted throws everything into a weird perspective and I'm not sure what to make of it.
 
Kinda suspect the terraforming around Dum is part of whatever binding is enforced on Morghur.
The ring of desert serves to cut off this forest from all others or something along those lines.
 
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