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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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My perspective on this is that essentially Karag Dum is lost to the Karag Ankor. But we still need to be sure that in the next say 50 - 100 years, a slowly more and more corrupted dum isn't going to poison the waystone network or lead to an army of dwarven equipped batsmen falling upon the empire at an ill-opportune moment.

I think an infiltration is in order
 
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Guys even if by some miracle we found sane dwarfs by Mathilde's reckoning in there the Karaz Ankor would never take them back. These people would be killed on sight by all dwarfs waystone or no waystone.
 
Pipeman said:
Kinda suspect the terraforming around Dum is part of whatever binding is enforced on Morghur.
The ring of desert serves to cut off this forest from all others or something along those lines.
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I think you're right about this. Hmmm... what if the forest is the result of Dum dwarfs chucking around Athel Loren acorns? Morghur's staying put because he thinks he's in Athel Loren?
 
desert around a forest, which is in a circle around one mountain. Borek was let in with an "affectionate gesture"

"Though Borek's pace is steady, his process across the sand is anything but, as the heat-shimmer embraces him and sends mirages of his image shimmering to and fro. "

...ok

Well, this is a real interesting pickle, and it's so tempting to get a closer look, but this place is full of magic radiation and no one in the expedition signed up for anything like this. Time to leg it back to reality.
 
Artemis1992 said:
Something there is real and powerful enough to move the Winds by its presence.

Unless you assume that is a Runemaster in a very good disguise, I'm not sure what else it should be.
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I'd bet on it being a radical Runesmith or the creation of one using a very good illusion. Reality is pretty mutable up here.

fictionfan said:
He's insane there are all sorts of ways they might have tricked him. His binding might be similar to how we talk about binding an apparition. He might just be blind to anything that Dum doesn't want him to see or similar tricks.
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You still don't want a guard dog who keeps running off to kill a demigod. Plus that still doesn't explain how Borek wasn't corrupted.
 
Guile said:
[ ] THEORY: Borek was resigned to see not-Morghur. Not-Cor Dum was created by Karag Dum as a weapon of last resort, using their radical runecraft and their extensive knowledge of Chaos to bind raw Chaos-stuff into a sturdy form, not unlike Bok. Borek is disappointed to see Plan Z deployed, but not surprised. Knowing that the Expedition Dwarves would never accept them for going beyond the moral event horizon, he gave up on returning Dum to the Karak Ankor and has decided to live out his days as a forest-dwarf.
[ ] ACTION: You have Windsage and Avatar. Get closer to Not-Cor Dum, see what the fuck.
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I mostly agree with this, except i think that it is Morghur. in which case, actually getting close or looking at him too hard is not really a valid plan.

Maybe we should ask Deathfang if he has ever seen anything remotely similar?

Hunter531 said:
You still don't want a guard dog who keeps running off to kill a demigod. Plus that still doesn't explain how Borek wasn't corrupted.
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Same way an Everchosen is not a blubbering mess of chaos spawn flesh despite having full weight of all four chaos gods. He did not want to corrupt him beyond recognition. We don't know if Borek sprouted tusks, so he actually could be touched.
 
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[ ] ACTION: perhaps seek parlay with the Yusak, Kvellige, kul, Khazag tribes to seek better understand8ng of the situation.

This is the only reasonable course of action I can th8nk of that investigates what happened with the dwarves without retardedly going into beast man territory.

We still have time to burn before we meet with the dolgn so it doesn't hurt to investigate the other tribes for info or the chaos grail.
 
DragonParadox said:
They still tainted the works of the Ancestors by turning them to binding Chaos. That they still have some lines they won't cross yet means nothing. There is no one to talk to in Dun, only monsters or monsters-to-be.
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We don't actually know this. Like, at this point, "they bound morghur" is just as likely as "this is an active defence that only looks like morghur" or "this is a weird illusion caused by whatever weird dwarven artifacts are in karag dum" any other number of possible explanations.
 
DragonParadox said:
There is a difference between Dhar and Chaos. The former is not sentient, the latter is. To make a deal with Chaos, to use it is to Fall.
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That's exactly what a significant amount of Black Magisters probably thought at some point, but in the end that doesn't really matter. If the Dawi managed to bind Morghur the Shadowgave to be affectionate and protect them, they are lost.
 
One piece of sorta good news is that is we likely have control of the Expedition now, of the rest of the council neither Knight would accept the other being above them so they're both out and that leaves Snorri, who I feel we likely outclass on the earned respect front after everything we've done.
 
I feel that scouting it out is absolutely not worth the risk of even the slightest chance of mutation. Getting mutation's is basically bad ending for the quest considering and I really don't think we should risk the chance at all simply for curiosity's sake.
 
Here's a potential proposal.

Go up to the edge of that ring and call Borek out.

If their bad guys .... weirdly, even Chaos respects the calling someone out thing and doesnt interfere with it, and Borek would be obligated to respond or be thought cowardly/weak which will not fly in that environment. If they aren't evil ... Borek owes us enough that as long as he isn't absolute scum he's still obligated to poke his head out for a converation.
 
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Yeah look like Borek tought his home would try to fight Chaos with Chaos as a last resort and it happens here.

They seems to have make a ritual to change the environnement around to create a forest around their hold which has Morghur trap in it to defend them (by making him thinking the Hold is a massive herdstone) and Karag-Dum as his allies. The desert around is to stop the progression of the forest.

So Morghur is now trap in this location and defend it from Chaos warbands. It protect at the same time Karak Dum and Karak Ankor (by blocking some warbands who would otherwise have attack the Orders realms) but they pretty much doomed themself by doing this and are in pretty much Slayer-mode trying to kill the most ennemies they can and cutting themself from the rest to not contamined them with their corruption.
 
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The Bird said:
We don't actually know this. Like, at this point, "they bound morghur" is just as likely as "this is an active defence that only looks like morghur" or "this is a weird illusion caused by whatever weird dwarven artifacts are in karag dum" any other number of possible explanations.
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Have we ever seen dwarf runes make illusions, much less illusions this effective? The Kurgan have bene fighting Moghur for years.
 
Wait. Why exactly Mathilde thinks that that is Morghur? She knows very little about Beastmen, and of Morghur, yet immediately jumps to that conclusion:
BoneyM said:
And as you stare and as the Alriksson continues trundling forward, you see a figure at the edge of the forest, standing taller than a man and taller still when you consider the skull-adorned frill that juts from its skull.

In a flash of realization, you know why your question had confused the Yusak Shaman. When he spoke of Dum, he did not mean the Dwarfhold of Karag Dum.

He meant Cor-Dum.
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As far as we, the players, know, Morghur is more of a force of nature than beastman, with mind constantly chaotically reforming. He hardly could be considered sapient being. He shouldn't be capable of actions like ruffling Borek's hair with his hand.

I can't formulate a full theory here yet, but I think that being we see here isn't Morghur, but some "stone is an excellent insulator of magic"-kind effect tells everyone (including Kurgan going to fight here) that it is. Yes, there's seemingly no illusion, there are beastmen of flesh and bone standing here, but there's an induced misdesignation.
 
The floor was thick with a carpet of bones. This isn't just an illusion and dwarven runic magic isn't capable of that style of output. No, this is real, they some how bound Morghur, Borek was resigned when he saw this. He felt this was within expected outcomes that were possible. We should turn around and go home.


matvprok said:
I can't formulate a full theory here yet, but I think that being we see here isn't Morghur, but some "stone is an excellent insulator of magic"-kind effect tells everyone (including Kurgan going to fight here) that it is. Yes, there's seemingly no illusion, there are beastmen of flesh and bone standing here, but there's an induced misdesignation.
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I don't think so, or Borek wouldn't have walked forwards into it as he did.
 
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You know, if he's not actively coming at us we could just...

[] Action: Use Illusion to amplify your voice and ask Morghur from a safe distance what has become of Karag Dum.
 
I mean, we can actually take on Morghur. We have Deathfang. Morghur is actually not impossible to kill. But yeah, lets not actually try that, because it would not be a riskless fight.
 
lord_Bren said:
That's exactly what a significant amount of Black Magisters probably thought at some point, but in the end that doesn't really matter. If the Dawi managed to bind Morghur the Shadowgave to be affectionate and protect them, they are lost.
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If we threw them down the stairs, then yeah, no doubt they are lost.

How many people could have actually made good use of those forces if their allies didn't abandon them whenever they did?
 
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