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Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest

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[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
 
Random question, but did we ever give Hubert that dragon bone for a staff, and if so, has he actually gotten it made into one yet? Because looking at his magic he's already at Five, and if this adventure helps him improve his Windsight—which it most probably will, our Windsight is probably coming out stronger—he might jump another point to Six. Add on a plus one for a staff, and he could theoretically start throwing around Battlemagic soon. Better yet, he's got that nice trait of everything less than that being safe, which is really cool for a guy trying to meld his magic with combat and who spends half his time in the air flying around.
 
DragonParadox said:
For the record I still think it is a diplomatic nightmare to try to talk to the Dun dwarfs. Say they aren't fallen, say they can get some help, how do we sell this to the Karaz Ankor? They are already in a fragile mental state (See Mathilde the dwarf). How are they going to react to 'pet Morghur'? I think the best we can really do is give them what help Mathilde herself can offer, maybe do and exchange of information if they have access to anything that isn't runesmith secrets and then go back.
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Also get some metal for structural supports on the mountainside for the wagons if possible, or wood + that chamon spell (when the conversation on dealing with the broken bit of the cliff is open again). But that hole is something we have to consider when we are looking at our choices here imo, 'cuz there's wood right there.


Ericwinter said:
Random question, but did we ever give Hubert that dragon bone for a staff, and if so, has he actually gotten it made into one yet? Because looking at his magic he's already at Five, and if this adventure helps him improve his Windsight—which it most probably will, our Windsight is probably coming out stronger—he might jump another point to Six. Add on a plus one for a staff, and he could theoretically start throwing around Battlemagic soon. Better yet, he's got that nice trait of everything less than that being safe, which is really cool for a guy trying to meld his magic with combat and who spends half his time in the air flying around.
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I brought this up a while ago, BoneyM's response (I was thinking a cool dragonbone sword that can act as a staff) was something along the lines of him being able to look after himself
 
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[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
 
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Kinruush said:
Instead, the theory I prefer is that somehow the dwarves and elves cooperated to replace the source of Cor-Dum's power. Rather than burn away the corruption after he starts spewing it, they're burning it away before it even gets to him. Instead of him treating the mountain like a herdstone after he'd been purified, it's integral to his purification because his power is being sourced through it in the first place. After all, that's what the mountain waystones are doing in the first place: they aren't pushing magic away, they're pulling in ambient magic and turning it into pure, dwarf-y power. If it was changed to do that in a bigger way, and they included a massive Rune of Valaya as part of the filtering system, then locked that in as the source of his power, it resolves the weirdness you'd get if you'd just bound him in a more standard way, and it sounds like a plan with fewer points of failure after it's put in place.
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...So just spitballing here but. I feel like part of that would mean doing the Rites of Valaya for him. To protect him from the influence of outside magic. And if so, hey, I guess the people who though he was a dwarf were right! Because that's what that'd mean. That they took one of the greatest gifts of the ancestors, and used it on him, effectively baptized him into dwarfdom.
 
Not able to catch up on everything that's been written, but if I had to make a best guess myself, then I'd posit "Karak Dum is acting as a Herdstone (as opposed to actually being one) attracting/something the (possibly also bound or controlled) Cor-Dum to this location, generating the suspiciously Empire-like dark forest full of beastmen."
(Someone implied, oh, dozens of pages ago that Herdstones could generate forest.)

The thing is, this tableau wasn't a revelation or shock to Borek- he seemed resigned, as if the Worst Contingency he'd feared had come to pass. Which links up with the friendly reception from Cor-Dum- maybe being 'piloted' by a Runelord, or maybe the a dwarf-souled Cor-Dum idea. But Borek wasn't surprised by this, which to me means Karak Dum did it. And the 'forgive us' plea speaks to it's... dubious honour.

Regardless, it seems... bad, and not necessarily anything that needs poking. They're serving as a battleground for Warbands to fight and die.

So, yeah, I guess maybe this one:
[x] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.

But I don't really care to take the risks required to find out, so:
[X] ACTION: Turn back
 
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Alliterate said:
Regardless, it seems... bad, and not necessarily anything that needs poking. They're serving as a battleground for Warbands to fight and die.
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If they're only defended by strange means rather than actively corrupt then there will be resources inside that are useful to us.

Primarily I want to recruit one or more of their runelords to take home and get more info, or an engineer or two to help with high pass.

If they're in the process of becoming corrupted, saving some or all of them before they become (part of) a new destro faction would be great.

To work out what is worth doing we have to poke at the clues.
 
kingreaper said:
If they're only defended by strange means rather than actively corrupt
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Seems like a very, very big If to risk the lives of the Expedition on, in the face of what might be an everything-corrupting, reality-mutating demigod.

What if Borek was safe to Cor-Dum only because of a Custom RuneMasterFlip variation of the Rune of Valaya protections given to every Dawi?

If any dwarves needed extra Chaos protection, it's these guys. Maybe the Rune Masters figured it out (at some cost, no doubt) while they were sending out all the warnings.

That'd explain why Borek didn't explode into Chaos Spawn, while everyone else might if they got too close (which would suck) including Mathilde- which would end the quest.
 
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Klaus said:
Reminder that whatever happened isn't something happy like "freed Cor Dum from chaos taint."
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By standards of Dawi it deffo is something shameful, yes.
Issue is, Dawi standards are incredibly stupid, as is their entire culture, so it may well be the Shameful Thing was "they learned how to purify world of chaos, but it was done with 1% alteration of one of Ancestor Runes, which means it's slayer-worthy shame" or something equally asinine. We just cannot rely on Dawi judgment of what is and is not shameful as anything remotely sane, reasonable or worth not spitting on.
 
Complete aside, but I wonder what the Dolgan shaman guy thought when he first saw the Expedtiion coming. Because this:
BoneyM said:
I had suspected that the metal longboats that sailed upon a sea of fog was your pilgrimage."
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Is just so pointed, and as I mentioned a while ago, excessively impressive. Dolgan quest was probably freaking out at the sight.
 
ctulhuslp said:
By standards of Dawi it deffo is something shameful, yes.
Issue is, Dawi standards are incredibly stupid, as is their entire culture, so it may well be the Shameful Thing was "they learned how to purify world of chaos, but it was done with 1% alteration of one of Ancestor Runes, which means it's slayer-worthy shame" or something equally asinine. We just cannot rely on Dawi judgment of what is and is not shameful as anything remotely sane, reasonable or worth not spitting on.
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With respect even if that's 100% true us learning it makes no difference, whom exactly do you think would learn how to make those runes other than other Dawi that would have the same reaction?
 
Alliterate said:
What if Borek was safe to Cor-Dum only because of a Custom RuneMasterFlip variation of the Rune of Valaya protections given to every Dawi?
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Nah, doesn't fit. He'd be mutating the ambient environment. If there's such a rune in play, it's on Cor-Dum himself, otherwise the effects of his aura would be visible from here.


ctulhuslp said:
Issue is, Dawi standards are incredibly stupid, as is their entire culture, so it may well be the Shameful Thing was "they learned how to purify world of chaos, but it was done with 1% alteration of one of Ancestor Runes, which means it's slayer-worthy shame" or something equally asinine. We just cannot rely on Dawi judgment of what is and is not shameful as anything remotely sane, reasonable or worth not spitting on.
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Maybe take a chill pill, please? The thread really doesn't need this kind of vitriol when we had a banner up for days telling us to tone it down.
 
So, how are people thinking of gaining more information, and what is the rest of the expedition meant to do on the meantime?
I am as curious as the next person, often more so, but i just don't see much to be gained here without major risks, we have number of reasonable hypothesis on what has happened, and nothing we can really do about it.
I think it's best to turn around, get out, and report to Karaz Ankor that Karag Dum is, for all practical purposes, gone, and what remains is best left alone.
 
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Ericwinter said:
Complete aside, but I wonder what the Dolgan shaman guy thought when he first saw the Expedtiion coming. Because this:
BoneyM said:
I had suspected that the metal longboats that sailed upon a sea of fog was your pilgrimage."
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Is just so pointed, and as I mentioned a while ago, excessively impressive. Dolgan quest was probably freaking out at the sight.
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Dolgan Shaman of the White Moon: "Well, you tell me how else should Norscan sailor-warbands get their longboats across the steppe? They should carry them?" :V
 
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SuperSonicSound said:
With respect even if that's 100% true us learning it makes no difference, whom exactly do you think would learn how to make those runes other than other Dawi that would have the same reaction?
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If all Dawi ever will have the same reaction, yeah. But it's better to know whatever happened, plus there's always the off chance more innovative Holds win the cultural war between Dawi.
HungryHamadryad said:
Maybe take a chill pill, please? The thread really doesn't need this kind of vitriol when we had a banner up for days telling us to tone it down.
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Kk, but Dawi culture being cripplingly conservative is still kind of a thing which has to be kept in mind when we consider what might be considered "shameful".
 
Alliterate said:
Dolgan Shaman of the White Moon: "Well, you tell me how else should Norscan sailor-warbands get their longboats across the steppe? They should carry them?" :V
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Funny as this is, the White Moon shaman was a Yusak guy, not Dolgan. I was talking about the Ghirbi's shaman we originally met when setting up the deal with the Dolgan, and then met again just now who made that comment.
 
Valmond said:
So, how are people thinking of gaining more information, and what is the rest of the expedition meant to do on the meantime?
I am as curious as the next person, often more so, but i just don't see much to be gained here without mahjor risks, we have number of reasonable hypothesis on what has happened, and nothing we can really do about it.
I think it's best to turn around, get out, and report to Karaz Ankor that Karag Dum is, for all practical purposes, gone, and what remains is best left alone.
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I layed out my prefference in my action vote. Even if no one else voted for it. :V

The expedition circles the wagons and waits 24 hrs while we sneak in and try to find out more details.

Which *yes* are important because we need to know if the Waystone (we shouldn't share that with the other expedition members) will *stay* uncorrupted or if it will serve as a trojian horse and needs to be disconnected as fast as possible. That example of a reason to stay is just of the top of my head while eating lunch. I'm sure people can think of other things to look for.
 
So on the topic of 'how to keep up with the thread.'

I pick several key posters (BoneyM, picklepikkl, Mopman43, chocolote12 etc.) and effect posts (long posts with a lot of quotes.)

and I basically only look at those posts and skim the rest until I'm in punting range of the end of the thread (4-5 pages)

ya, I miss some stuff, but it's rare that I miss anything big. if it's important, it will come up again.
 
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HungryHamadryad said:
Nah, doesn't fit. He'd be mutating the ambient environment. If there's such a rune in play, it's on Cor-Dum himself, otherwise the effects of his aura would be visible from here.
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Karak-Runes of Valaya exist. And ward against Chaos.
Could (their custom RuneMasterTM version?) be somewhat stabilising the environment around (both) Dums.
Ericwinter said:
Funny as this is, the White Moon shaman was a Yusak guy, not Dolgan. I was talking about the Ghirbi's shaman we originally met when setting up the deal with the Dolgan, and then met again just now who made that comment.
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Yeah, I know. It was meant to be 'random Other Dolgan Shaman replying', I probably shouldn't have picked the white moon...
 
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