Warhammer Fantasy: Divided Loyalties - an Advisor's Quest
- Thread starter Boney
- Start date
- Fantasy Users' Choice!
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- warhammer warhammer fantasy fantasy be gay do crimes (gay) female protagonist pansexual protagonist ck2 quest divided loyalties mountain vietnam ranald is real this is a dwarf quest (dwarfs) this is maybe an elf quest this is not a vampire quest this is not an empire quest try it and find out open voting
Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
- Location
- Earth
How sad were you that there are no tumbleweeds around, BoneyM?
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
"Shut up Pan, you aren't even in this scene to ruin my mystique."
We have our assorted oaths to the Empire. The Dawi aren't going to beGrudge us for seeking to follow them to the best of our ability, or spending effort determining the most valid way to thread the needle of our obligations.
Now if we insisted that the Karaz Ankor take the whole population if we somehow pulled off chain casting outright miracles to make that a physical possibility, that would be all kinds of no bueno. We're still at the 'seeing if there is anyone to save, or if this witch hunting hat is about to see a return to its roots' stage.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
It'd be a theory presented alongside several other theories. My concern is that it won't be mentioned at all.
@BoneyM am I right that if they wanted to use their Rune of Valaya to burn off Dhar - and cause an explosion like the one we think created the crater and desert - they'd have to turn it into the Rune of Valaya's Vengeance, first?
pucflek
Verified simpleton
- Location
- Czech Republic
Tbh, Mathilde can't know that. Runic Magic is not her purview, and Karak Dum is radical as hell. Who knows what kind of weirdness they fudged up.
Mathilde will mention several theories that got the most votes. Not just the one. The fact is that one of them just says "well these are countermeasures" without saying what the countermeasures are, the other says "this beastman got affected by burning of dharr" and well plethora of others. The fact that it might not, in fact, be a Beastman at all is so deep down it will probably not get brought up at all.
I kinda really agree with bunnies here.
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
We hold all the power here right now though. The Convoy isn't getting back to Kislev without Mathilde's Mockery of Death spell.
- Location
- Earth
Seems pretty clear to me, Snorri thinks he got bamboozled by Borek.
- Location
- Manchester, UK
- Pronouns
- He/They
THEORY: Karag Dum is using a fake Morghur to make the real beastmen fight for them.
Is currently fifth on the list, and third out of the ones that make any statement as to what "Morghur" is. It'll probably get at least a look-in, but I figure I might as well add it to my voting, and encourage others to do so.
[X] THEORY: There's some sort of strange illusion magic going on, and it's not visible even to extremely good mage sight. Out of all known sources of magic only Dawi Runes are capable of that - so the works of Dawi Runesmiths are still in use.
[x] Action: Pray for guidance. In this realm reality is more malleable, perhaps our gods will be able to reach us more easily here.
[x] THEORY: Karag Dum is using a fake Morghur to make the real beastmen fight for them.
[x] Action: Look for the source of the desert.
[x] THEORY: That's not Morghur. Morghur constantly changes his surroundings, Morghur does not make reality more stable near himself, Morghur does not display affection, Morghur would never stay here unless he was bound, and if he was bound he'd be struggling constantly to get out. The shuddering of reality can be faked by Runesmiths if they wanted.
[x] ACTION: Demand the Runesmith in the Morghur Fursuit presents Borek so you can scream at him for not mentioning he was taking you to the Capital of Dwarven Illusion Craft. You would have brought more ink and paper.
[x] THEORY: The dwarves of Karag Dum are alive and uncorrupted by Chaos, but have resorted to truly drastic measures to survive, probably undertaken by their controversial "Rune Masters", which involves having these beastmen or beastmen-appearing creatures defending the karak for the dwarves. We can assume that this is all in favour of the dwarves by Morghur's easy acceptance and non-destruction of Borek as well as Borek's mutual acceptance of the beastman. The idea of Rune Masters being critically involved is the certainty that some form of magic was used to create this whole situation, including the odd weather, and the Rune Masters' lack of corruption is supported by the lesser level of ambient dark magic in the area, even directly around Morghur himself.
[x] ACTION: Project a message in the air with magic asking for a Parley.
[x] THEORY: Karag Dum converted their Rune of Valaya into a Rune of Valaya's Vengeance, and used it to burn away all of the surrounding Dhar, causing a cataclysmic explosion and presumably wiping out whatever threat they were facing. But having lost their Rune of Valaya, they no longer had a defence against the Winds of Chaos, and they knew it. They could not simply die, for they had a critical duty to protect their hold, for reasons that are secrets of my Guild and Karak Eight Peaks, and so they decided that if they could not survive to defend it as Dwarves they would no longer be Dwarves. They found a way for dwarves to become beastmen, and know that they must defend their Karak as though it were their herdstone. Pity them.
[x] THEORY: Morghur has been linked to Karag Dum's waystone, which is acting as a psudo-herdstone that is burning away Dhar instead of creating it. Morghur is possibly cleansed of Dhar, and sees dwarfs of Karag Dum as family. The waystone may have been the cause of the weird geography via Geomancy, and might be weaponized. Based on Boreks last words, this was a longstanding contingency plan held by the dwarfs of Karag Dum. He is ashamed because it's a desecration of one of the greatest relics of the Ancestor Gods, as well as binding the fate of Karag Dum to a Beastmen Demi-God.
[x] THEORY: Karag Dum worked with the elves to replace a section of reality with the warp, which they use to forcibly tame Cor-Dum and a herd of beastmen to use as protection against Chaos.
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Yes, and? Holding them hostage here for Mathilde's curiosity isn't exactly a good thing. If they want to start heading back, and I see no reason they won't want that, we shouldn't just abandon them.
- Location
- Philippines
[X] THEORY: The specifics are hazy, but this is a known contingency plan that Borek is entirely aware of, but hoped hadn't been enacted. The result breaks all Dawi notions of acceptability, but Karak Dum survives in some capacity and continues to inflict attrition on every local and visiting Chaos force that want to take a swing at them, so it is considered a lesser evil by the pragmatic Karak Dum.
[X] THEORY: The Beastmen and Morghur are illusions and runic trickery, The only evidence is that Morghur is not acting like his/her normal self, for instance, he/she is nonhostile, did not radiate chaos and Dhar aura, Borek is not mutated despite, Morghur supposed possesses a chaotic aura that can easily mutate, people. Morghur did not act hostile and aggressive enouch, he/she looks sane, he/she did not attack Borek, did not mutate the ground with he/she area of effect aura.
However if Morghur is just a illusion, that does not explain why Borek is greatly shamed by the contigency, a mere illusion would not be enough to shamed Borek.
Mere illusions won't be enough to withstand the constant attacks of the inhabitants here, and illusions would not be able to destablilize the reality or to be precise the unreality of the chaos wasteland.
[X] Morghur is helping the dwarves of Karag Dum, Morghur didn't attack Borek, and didn't attack us which supports that this isn't normal for Morghur, based on the bones and banners, He/She did attack the various tribes that went and came here to test themselves.
He/She does not stink of Dhar, and this area around the Karag has less Dhar concentration than the wasteland, which suggest that Morghur is for intents and purpose align with Karag Dum, the forest does not appear to be mutated or corrupted. Morghur may be under the control of Karag Dum, or even be willing in defending Karag Dum, which I will expand on why on my other theories but before that I will lead with my other theory which is:
[X] Morghur is a class of entity not a individual, a possibly a sort of Ghur and/or Gyran elemental, however this is contradicted by
[X] Morghur knows Borek enouch to be affectionate with him, although this might just be identification procedure, or just a security measure to determine the identity of whether or not the person is a dwarf of Karag Dum.
[X] THEORY: Omegahugger- And now for the reason Morghur may be allied with Karag Dum
[x] THEORY: Morghur was reborn as a dwarf and at least partially protected by the Valayan rites, subsequently those protections were relaxed to allow him to mutate physically while retaining self-control and his dwarven identity.
[X] THEORY: The Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Perhaps it had an effect on the Beastmen here, Cor-Dum included.
[X] THEORY: How and why does not matter. The expedition's responsibility is to bring word to Karag Dum of the state of Karaz Ankor if any yet live and to bring back any message, refugees, or other explanation from Karag Dum. Borek has fulfilled the first responsibility. We should attempt to to fulfill the second, even if just by observation and waiting a decent time for any messenger from Karag Dum to emerge.
[X] THEORY: The forest, that looks seemingly normal and Morghur indicates potential involvment of the wood elves and probably the high elves too, if the high elves were the last group to hunt Morghur down.
[X] THEORY: The dwarves of Karag Dum managed to, somehow based on the desert borders stabilize reality contradicting the nature of the chaos wastelands
[X] Base on Morghur not being his/herself and the forest, the dwarves may be allied with the elves specifically High elves and/or Wood elves, the elves have been hunting Morghur, and may be involve, plus the forest clearly isn't normal. Yet the forest and desert is present and Morghur is for a lack of better term not acting chaotic, not acting insane, not attacking us, and is either enslaved or allied with the dwarves of Karag Dum.
[X]THEORY: A pseudo-Herdstone - the dwarves managed to create or use their secret resoruces to reverse engineer it, which combined with Morghur, lets them control nomadic beastmen or even create their own beastmen from wildlife or livestock.
[X] THEORY:The terrain
A. The desert...
1. ... is a spacial disjunction to somewhere with a desert, like Araby.
2. ... is an effect intentionally created by Dum's enemies to restrict the forest.
3. ... is an effect intentionally created by Dum to cut Morghur off from other forests.
4. ... is a result of Dum burning away massive amounts of Dhar, like Mathilde's belt does.
B. The forest...
1. ... is actually present in the Chaos Wastes...
and was created by Morghur.
or was created by elven cooperation with Dum.
2. ... is actually a spacial disjunction to somewhere more forested...
such as Athel Loren.
3. ... is a closed off bubble of the warp that has had new properties imposed on it...
a. ... with runecraft, like Gazul's realm.
b. ... with runecraft and magecraft in concert.
c. ... by Morghur.
C. The surrounding mountains...
1. ... were annihilated.
2. ... are still present, but not visible due to spacial disjunction.
[X] THEORY: The burning of Dhar or purifying it by whatever process Karag Dum has makes the temperature higher, could potentially be the reason why the desert exist.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum radicalize themselves in a effort to protect the rest of the dwarves, by providing a secret resouce, that I'm not allowed to mention.
[x] THEORY: Magical signs and, less reliably, intuition about Borek, point to there being something uncorrupted in that mountain in the middle.
[X] THEORY: The dwarves of Karag Dum are alive and uncorrupted by Chaos, but have resorted to truly drastic measures to survive, probably undertaken by their controversial "Rune Masters", which involves having these beastmen or beastmen-appearing creatures defending the karak for the dwarves. We can assume that this is all in favour of the dwarves by Morghur's easy acceptance and non-destruction of Borek as well as Borek's mutual acceptance of the beastman. The idea of Rune Masters being critically involved is the certainty that some form of magic was used to create this whole situation, including the odd weather, and the Rune Masters' lack of corruption is supported by the lesser level of ambient dark magic in the area, even directly around Morghur himself.
[X] ACTION: Discuss the theories only with the council members and the wizards, and even then discuss only in a safe area, where enemy spies may not be able to gain knowledge.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[x] ACTION: Politely ask Morghur to be granted entrance into Karak Dum.
[x] ACTION: I'm going to have to check this out.
[X] Actions: Study
-bones: look for causes of death, evidence of mutation,
- plants and fauna, identify speciments, see if they are
linked to Athel Lorien,
- Investigate the desert, and look for the source.
- Have the wizards, find signs of chaos taints and Dhar in this enviroment, but be sure not to stray too far.
- Have the expedition fortify to play along with the kurgans' expectation of preparing for a fight.
- be sure for the rest of the expedition to set up a base somewhere a bit far in case a hasty retreat or even a emergency reinforcements.
- Get Asarnil to help you spot signs of elven activity, and even help you leverage the magical seed you got just in case, you need it to get the wood elves to parley.
- Get some wizards to help identify the nature of beastmen and compare it to Mathilde's observation of the supposed beastmen of Karag Dum.
[X] ACTION: Project a message in the air: What the fuck Borek (but more politely worded.)
[X] ACTION: Have expedition fortify near enouch to give a pretense of sieging and prepare fortifications, to give kurgans impression of 'testing' ourselves, but far enough to be able to run away if needed. Prepare a team that can investigate and make sense of everything to study specimens aquire such as bones, fauna, plants, if viable.
[X] ACTION: If its safe try to settle in least concentrated Dhar area, Keep Morale of the expedition up.
I updated the theories, and updated the actions to include better security for the council in discussion, won't want the Kurgans to know whats going on .
[X] THEORY: The Beastmen and Morghur are illusions and runic trickery, The only evidence is that Morghur is not acting like his/her normal self, for instance, he/she is nonhostile, did not radiate chaos and Dhar aura, Borek is not mutated despite, Morghur supposed possesses a chaotic aura that can easily mutate, people. Morghur did not act hostile and aggressive enouch, he/she looks sane, he/she did not attack Borek, did not mutate the ground with he/she area of effect aura.
However if Morghur is just a illusion, that does not explain why Borek is greatly shamed by the contigency, a mere illusion would not be enough to shamed Borek.
Mere illusions won't be enough to withstand the constant attacks of the inhabitants here, and illusions would not be able to destablilize the reality or to be precise the unreality of the chaos wasteland.
[X] Morghur is helping the dwarves of Karag Dum, Morghur didn't attack Borek, and didn't attack us which supports that this isn't normal for Morghur, based on the bones and banners, He/She did attack the various tribes that went and came here to test themselves.
He/She does not stink of Dhar, and this area around the Karag has less Dhar concentration than the wasteland, which suggest that Morghur is for intents and purpose align with Karag Dum, the forest does not appear to be mutated or corrupted. Morghur may be under the control of Karag Dum, or even be willing in defending Karag Dum, which I will expand on why on my other theories but before that I will lead with my other theory which is:
[X] Morghur is a class of entity not a individual, a possibly a sort of Ghur and/or Gyran elemental, however this is contradicted by
[X] Morghur knows Borek enouch to be affectionate with him, although this might just be identification procedure, or just a security measure to determine the identity of whether or not the person is a dwarf of Karag Dum.
[X] THEORY: Omegahugger- And now for the reason Morghur may be allied with Karag Dum
[x] THEORY: Morghur was reborn as a dwarf and at least partially protected by the Valayan rites, subsequently those protections were relaxed to allow him to mutate physically while retaining self-control and his dwarven identity.
[X] THEORY: The Dwarves of Karag Dum did something to burn away the taint of Chaos, much as your Belt of the Unshackled Mountain does, but on a far grander scale. Perhaps it had an effect on the Beastmen here, Cor-Dum included.
[X] THEORY: How and why does not matter. The expedition's responsibility is to bring word to Karag Dum of the state of Karaz Ankor if any yet live and to bring back any message, refugees, or other explanation from Karag Dum. Borek has fulfilled the first responsibility. We should attempt to to fulfill the second, even if just by observation and waiting a decent time for any messenger from Karag Dum to emerge.
[X] THEORY: The forest, that looks seemingly normal and Morghur indicates potential involvment of the wood elves and probably the high elves too, if the high elves were the last group to hunt Morghur down.
[X] THEORY: The dwarves of Karag Dum managed to, somehow based on the desert borders stabilize reality contradicting the nature of the chaos wastelands
[X] Base on Morghur not being his/herself and the forest, the dwarves may be allied with the elves specifically High elves and/or Wood elves, the elves have been hunting Morghur, and may be involve, plus the forest clearly isn't normal. Yet the forest and desert is present and Morghur is for a lack of better term not acting chaotic, not acting insane, not attacking us, and is either enslaved or allied with the dwarves of Karag Dum.
[X]THEORY: A pseudo-Herdstone - the dwarves managed to create or use their secret resoruces to reverse engineer it, which combined with Morghur, lets them control nomadic beastmen or even create their own beastmen from wildlife or livestock.
[X] THEORY:The terrain
A. The desert...
1. ... is a spacial disjunction to somewhere with a desert, like Araby.
2. ... is an effect intentionally created by Dum's enemies to restrict the forest.
3. ... is an effect intentionally created by Dum to cut Morghur off from other forests.
4. ... is a result of Dum burning away massive amounts of Dhar, like Mathilde's belt does.
B. The forest...
1. ... is actually present in the Chaos Wastes...
and was created by Morghur.
or was created by elven cooperation with Dum.
2. ... is actually a spacial disjunction to somewhere more forested...
such as Athel Loren.
3. ... is a closed off bubble of the warp that has had new properties imposed on it...
a. ... with runecraft, like Gazul's realm.
b. ... with runecraft and magecraft in concert.
c. ... by Morghur.
C. The surrounding mountains...
1. ... were annihilated.
2. ... are still present, but not visible due to spacial disjunction.
[X] THEORY: The burning of Dhar or purifying it by whatever process Karag Dum has makes the temperature higher, could potentially be the reason why the desert exist.
[X] THEORY: Karag Dum radicalize themselves in a effort to protect the rest of the dwarves, by providing a secret resouce, that I'm not allowed to mention.
[x] THEORY: Magical signs and, less reliably, intuition about Borek, point to there being something uncorrupted in that mountain in the middle.
[X] THEORY: The dwarves of Karag Dum are alive and uncorrupted by Chaos, but have resorted to truly drastic measures to survive, probably undertaken by their controversial "Rune Masters", which involves having these beastmen or beastmen-appearing creatures defending the karak for the dwarves. We can assume that this is all in favour of the dwarves by Morghur's easy acceptance and non-destruction of Borek as well as Borek's mutual acceptance of the beastman. The idea of Rune Masters being critically involved is the certainty that some form of magic was used to create this whole situation, including the odd weather, and the Rune Masters' lack of corruption is supported by the lesser level of ambient dark magic in the area, even directly around Morghur himself.
[X] ACTION: Discuss the theories only with the council members and the wizards, and even then discuss only in a safe area, where enemy spies may not be able to gain knowledge.
[X] ACTION: Gain more information.
[x] ACTION: Investigate further.
[x] ACTION: Politely ask Morghur to be granted entrance into Karak Dum.
[x] ACTION: I'm going to have to check this out.
[X] Actions: Study
-bones: look for causes of death, evidence of mutation,
- plants and fauna, identify speciments, see if they are
linked to Athel Lorien,
- Investigate the desert, and look for the source.
- Have the wizards, find signs of chaos taints and Dhar in this enviroment, but be sure not to stray too far.
- Have the expedition fortify to play along with the kurgans' expectation of preparing for a fight.
- be sure for the rest of the expedition to set up a base somewhere a bit far in case a hasty retreat or even a emergency reinforcements.
- Get Asarnil to help you spot signs of elven activity, and even help you leverage the magical seed you got just in case, you need it to get the wood elves to parley.
- Get some wizards to help identify the nature of beastmen and compare it to Mathilde's observation of the supposed beastmen of Karag Dum.
[X] ACTION: Project a message in the air: What the fuck Borek (but more politely worded.)
[X] ACTION: Have expedition fortify near enouch to give a pretense of sieging and prepare fortifications, to give kurgans impression of 'testing' ourselves, but far enough to be able to run away if needed. Prepare a team that can investigate and make sense of everything to study specimens aquire such as bones, fauna, plants, if viable.
[X] ACTION: If its safe try to settle in least concentrated Dhar area, Keep Morale of the expedition up.
I updated the theories, and updated the actions to include better security for the council in discussion, won't want the Kurgans to know whats going on .
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- Location
- Finland
This is a big and juicy mystery box that we have here.
I get people want to open it, i want to open it.
But not opening it and making sure we, and as many as possible of those we brought with us, get home, is perfectly valid and reasonable option.
I really don't see much benefit coming from trying to figure out this mystery, we do not have time for a lengthy study, and quick look is unlikely to be that illuminating.
I get people want to open it, i want to open it.
But not opening it and making sure we, and as many as possible of those we brought with us, get home, is perfectly valid and reasonable option.
I really don't see much benefit coming from trying to figure out this mystery, we do not have time for a lengthy study, and quick look is unlikely to be that illuminating.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
Some people just can't handle the truth...
- Location
- Earth
Wrong.
There are no cows on the steam wagons right now. BoneyM answered that question often enough.
The Wolves and Griphs are gorged instead and we have enough food for 4 weeks.
If they leave right now, they'll make it if barely.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Its not *just* curiosity. Understanding what has happened here is incredibly important from a strategic perspective. A knee-jerk reaction if fine in general but we need to know what happened her so we can make proper reports. THat information will be essential to preparing any potential counter-measures and guiding stategic planing. For example if that *is* the "real" Morghor then that means that he is unlikely to reappear in the Old World and forces don't need to worry about him attacking their homefronts.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I thought we where buying more food on the way back because the food we had was enought to get us to Dum. With them still needing Mockery of Death to preserve the cows on the way back for the full jouney?
- Location
- Earth
- Location
- Philippines
Intelligence gathering, assessing potential threats and allies,
Assessing on how it will impact Karag Vlag, the Karag we just saved, the Karag distributing energy to the high king Dwarf.
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Thanks. Not sure how I missed that.
Mathilde is one voice amongst many. I see no reason any other important member of the expedition will want to remain for a while. While quest format makes Mathilde's opinion more important I don't think it can or should overtake the desire to return now that their job is done. I'm also skeptical of how useful information on a potential threat weeks away from Kislev will be.
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- Location
- Utrecht
Objectively, Borek wasn't a bad leader. Perhaps not on the same level as Belegar, charisma wise, but then again, few are. But he has a good head on his shoulders, is pragmatic enough to compromise. We just witnessed his reaction to seeing his hopes for the last almost two centuries disintegrate in a matter of minutes.
That he didn't set his affairs in order before accepting a very bitter pill is forgivable.
- Location
- some computer lab
Wether a potential threat will remain weeks away from Kislev is very important, because if it is here for the Long haul, then we don't have to worry about it rampaging through the empire, and the Chaos Dwarves have had huge negative effects on the old world in spite of being a few weeks north of Kislev, so seeing what we're dealing with is imperative.
Mathilde is the Eight Peaks Loremaster. We should try to find out what's going on so we can properly assess if we need to level any grudges against Borek and Dum.
- Location
- Philippines
Karag Dum may be a important ally, provided, we don't alienate them, by shunning them, Mathilde probably has enough political clout to make at least the dwarf leaders consider listening to Karag Dum and may be accepting them, provided that they aren't twisted, evil or insane.
Plus Karag Vlag is tied to Karag Dum, so we want to assess the situation and if possble offer a possible alliance or reunite the Karage Dum and Karag Vlage with the dwarves, as long as we can prove that they are safe, to be around and not a lost cause, which we need to investigate to determine.
Plus Karag Dum possesses the old ways of the Dwarves from the golden age.
Plus Karag Vlag is tied to Karag Dum, so we want to assess the situation and if possble offer a possible alliance or reunite the Karage Dum and Karag Vlage with the dwarves, as long as we can prove that they are safe, to be around and not a lost cause, which we need to investigate to determine.
Plus Karag Dum possesses the old ways of the Dwarves from the golden age.
- Location
- Upon the back of the Great A'Tuin
Leaving is not a knee jerk reaction, it is a measured response to a very dangerous situation. Unless any of the dwarfs come out to explain things, we are not going to get any solid answers. Personally, I think that our best option for information gathering is not wandering around in the wastes but returning home and consulting experts on what the hell could be happening, and developing a more informed hypothesis. Trying to get information out of the tribes on the way back would also be helpful.
It's the Chaos wastes, there is always a potential threat weeks away from Kislev. Considering how long the hold has lasted I think it's safe to say that it is here for the long haul, at least in the eyes of men.
We already know that there are going to be grudges leveled. Why would we ever want to burden the Dwarves with more grudges they can't settle?