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RHUNRIKKI STROLLAR (Warhammer Fantasy Golden Age Dwarf Runelord Quest)

Voted best in category in the Users' Choice awards.
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Discord.

On Thread Etiquette:
I'm not going to weigh in on the logic of either side's arguments, but I will ask that everyone read over what they write and really consider if the words they used are polite and won't be inflammatory intentionally or not. You cant account for people's tolerances perfectly but at least try to say your piece without saying things that can be easily construed as overly dismissive of the other side of the argument, thank you.

Please endeavour to be cordial. :^)
 
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IronFist said:
It is more important to prevent grudges
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How do you think that happens?
The king micro manages everyones daily business? Intrudes into clan and guild matters?
How do you think that any of the current votes addresses this concern?

This is some fucking all lives matter type bait and switching.
E:

BungieONI said:
Gnu's version has the first two clauses which will work together to do that.
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I disagree.
Doing whats best for the hold may not be a fair settlement of a grudge. Dwarf ethics is far more deontological than utilitarian.
Knowing what you're good at and delegating everything else has nothing to do with fairness either.
And besides, even when you're shit at them, some responsibilities you cannot delegate.
 
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Dark as Silver said:
How do you think that happens?
The king micro manages everyones daily business? Intrudes into clan and guild matters?
How do you think that any of the current votes addresses this concern?

This is some fucking all lives matter type bait and switching.
E:


I disagree.
Doing whats best for the hold may not be a fair settlement of a grudge. Dwarf ethics is far more deontological than utilitarian.
Knowing what you're good at and delegating everything else has nothing to do with fairness either.
And besides, even when you're shit at them, some responsibilities you cannot delegate.
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If you're asking does any thing explicitly say "Grudges must be settled fairly." Then no, none say that precisely.

They don't need to for two reasons. One, Gimli isn't stupid enough to settle Grudges unfairly, in a dwarf sense of fair or unfair. Two, the dwarf concept of fairness is absurdly in their favor to begin with and does not match any kind of human sense of equality, seeing as how most of them end up with killing the offending party or seeking ruinous reparations so we'd effectively be stating the very obvious and gain nothing. Soulcake has already pointed out dwarves ain't human so some things you may want from them will just bounce right off. Fair Grudges in the utilitarian sense is one of those things given how bedrock basic it is to their culture for Grudges to be more deontological.

As well the second clause of Gnu's vote is not Delegation and was not what I was talking about. The combination of knowing your blind spots which in context are mental and physical blind spots plus the idea of communal honor means that Gimli is effectively being told to carefully consider his actions. Careful consideration of his actions from multiple angles is about the best I can think we can hope for in terms of utilitarian grudge application that actually makes sense within the culture of the dwarves.
 
BungieONI said:
If you're asking does any thing explicitly say "Grudges must be settled fairly." Then no, none say that precisely.
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I'm looking for advice that aids the decision of how to settle them. Gimli seems to be uncertain that he has the skill set so while "Just be fair lol" is unhelpful and obvious he is looking for how to understand things while still not being a thinker.
This whole conversation was prompted by him seeing his favourite uncle mediate a dispute and thinking "Huh is that what makes a king a king?" It just feels like offering suggestions that are immediately applicable to the situation are relevant.

I disagree with your characterisations of grudges. The very fact that we have a grudge scale in this quest shows that they do not begin and end killing or beggaring the other party. You're probably right that this totally revise how he deals with grudges however given the heavy disclaimers around the vote I feel like you're also downplaying the importance. And saying x while expecting y to happen is probably not good practise for quest votes.

I consider the second and third clauses intractable since the sentences runs on between them. They are obviously intended to be considered together. And considering that I think its less "Be cautious about what you're bad at" and more "Know what you're bad at and if you're bad at it, get someone who's good at it to do it."
IronFist said:
Just arbitration before things come to a head? Don't put words in my mouth.
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If you don't want people trying to interpret your words, explain them more fully. What vote would you consider most appropriate for early intervention?
 
[X] Character Moment: A Leader of his Own

[X] Social: Prince Gimli of Kraka Drakk
[X] Social: Logazor Bonestrider, Head Ranger of Karak Vlag
[X] Social: A Ranger from Uzkulak
[X] Social: She who Calls the Furious Cold/ Blizzardwing
 
soulcake said:
Plying the mountain slopes for creatures to slay and bring home for kin who, save for his sister
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Huh, I suppose this was why canon dwarfs mistook him as a Clanless dwarf. Though Gazul being the brother of Valaya is kinda interesting, and explains their esoteric focuses.
soulcake said:
A thing of endless mouths, terrible claws, and thick armour.
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Wonder what monster is this. A Jabberslythe?
soulcake said:
The tool of death, whose purpose is devoted solely to killing, a slayer of monsters."
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Welp, guess we now know the difference between Grimnir and Gazul. Grimnir is more on war and martial excellence. Gazul is hyper devoted to monster killing. Other than his duty as a guardian of the honored dead and the first Ranger, that is. Though I wonder how did Gazul have a crossbow if Morgrim was the one who invented it. Maybe Morgrim has already been born since then?
soulcake said:
the third and final Runes are the one only ones she doesn't recognize.
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Master Runes, I guess?
 
[X] Social: She who Calls the Furious Cold/ Blizzardwing
[X] Social: Logazor Bonestrider, Head Ranger of Karak Vlag
[X] Social: Lady Valma Stoneshaper

[X] Character Moment: A Leader of his Own
 
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[X] Character Moment: A Leader of his Own
[X] Social: Logazor Bonestrider, Head Ranger of Karak Vlag
[X] Social: She who Calls the Furious Cold/ Blizzardwing
[X] Social: Lady Valma Stoneshaper
 
[X] Character Moment: A Leader of his Own

[X] Social: Prince Gimli of Kraka Drakk
[X] Social: Logazor Bonestrider, Head Ranger of Karak Vlag
[X] Social: A Ranger from Uzkulak
[X] Social: She who Calls the Furious Cold/ Blizzardwing
 
Man how did I ever miss this quest? Incredibly solid writing Soulcake!
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Question for Soulcake and others:
We're "owed" favours from the clan and even individuals. Are there any clans or individuals we owe favours to? Or do we settle our debts asap?

How does our "DEFENSE. IN. DEPTH." mentality for Kraka Drakk jive with "NOT ONE MORE STEP BACK!" ? I mean. They're opposed philosophies..?
 
[X] Character Moment: A Leader of his Own
[X] Social: Lord Dwalin Thunderlung
[X] Social: She who Calls the Furious Cold/ Blizzardwing
[X] Social: Lady Valma Stoneshaper
 
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