Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
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- She/They
FYI: You have already voted for the plan:
*concern*
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- USA
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- He/Him
No they-- (checks documents) ...oh, ffs. What was I thinking?
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
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- She/They
Sure. I'll edit that in and fiddle with some of the details after lunch in a few hours.
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- Book Fort
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- They/Them
*facepalm*
I...I need more coffee. Or maybe I should just give in and get an energy drink on my way to work? Bleh.
Lol, maybe I'm not the only one who needs more caffeine.
As for @Kiba's concerns about disproportionate response... I don't really think it is. The Hagoromo are using their socially-enforced-monopoly against us [a monopoly that we cannot break] while also furthering bigotry and intolerance, which is inherently against Uplift (not to mention the discord that will run through Leaf once it's known that the Hag are willing to do this, but I admit that's a secondary or tertiary concern). We're not murdering them in their sleep and we're actively trying to avoid casualties while maintaining a list of those who were wronged, so that we can go back and right things.
Will we be 100%? Probably not, we're only mortal and Gaku (administrative god though he might be) is equally fallible. But the Hagoromo aren't willing to speak with us about this in good faith, and the clan structure as a whole means that we can't just find a dissenting priest.
I don't like that we're targeting Hagoromo-affiliates (and we should probably prep for retaliation of some sort), but I can't think of a better way. They won't listen to our perspective, and we won't listen to their dogmatic perspective, and we're doing our level best (which is actually very good) to minimize the damage.
Edit: I suppose my opinions on the subject are a little like Haru's: uncomfortable but accepting, provided we take action within the next action plan or two in order to minimize damage.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
So my thing here is that any harm this does is... functionally superficial? So long as we dot our i's and cross our t's, that is.
It is functionally impossible to impoverish a major clan of 30 ninja and their dependents. 30 ninja of varying rank plus their family civvies just generate far too much income for them to be anything below "middle class". At worst, they are no longer wealthy or upper class. Sucks to suck.[1]
One could argue that damage to their pride and dignity is done in some form. I don't have much to say on that front other than that I don't believe I (or Hazou, or Clan Gouketsu) have a moral imperative to take these sorts of things into consideration beyond considering the ramifications of secondhand fallout. And if the Nara are already playing ball, then we're good to go there so long as we do as I said in the first line above.
We can get through this, maybe culminate the Gambit Roulette with some cool "sparring match with a bet" (that would be nice) or whatever (maybe not, we'll see), and then if we feel like being the bigger person when all is said and done, well, we have ample room to do that. Either way, the Hags get added to the long and ever-growing list of folks that will curse the day they ever crossed Hazou Gouketsu and his terrifying family.
[1] I mentioned I would be merciful if they apologized for being a bunch of jerks and stopped acting like jerks, right?
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- NY
This is a good summary.
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- Book Fort
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- They/Them
I mean, the Hag are about to be bankrupt, between the Printing Press, Keiko's Silk Scheme, and our own plots, so they won't be able to bail out any of their affiliates. But, barring any super stubbornness from Lord Hag, it should all be resolved quickly enough that the affiliates don't suffer from starvation or anything like that (esp not with the Church of Youth and the Goketsu doing charitable stuff... Btw, I wonder if we can coordinate with Lee to start the Free Food Day, or if that would make it less popular?)
Basically, yeah. I do feel bad for the more "liberal" Hagoromo who are struggling to reconcile their faith with the Leaf's "modern" sensibilities, but it's ultimately the leadership that needs to change direction.
I... Well, I know that I ramble a fair bit, so I've become pretty adept at summarizing my meandering thought process.
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- NY
Is there a way we can get in contact with them? I know we're not gonna swing them, but communicating that this isn't personal and that we'd really prefer they take the lead in the future would be a good thing to do.
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- The Void
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- She/Her
I don't want people who come from a homophobic culture taking the lead on anything. They can sit this one out
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- NY
Yes, people who have the moral courage to be believe in reform who were born into a paramilitary command structure led by traditionalists are just the worst
Emstar
The Shining One
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- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
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- She/They
Right, so the point of what I want to do in (the edits I will soon make to) my plan is determine how feasible it is to poach these affiliated businesses or otherwise buy them out (perhaps by proxy)after we financially ruin their owners.
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- The Void
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- She/Her
Yeah and if they actually had the courage to act on it I would let them in. But they aren't so they don't have any moral authority to speak from. If after they start doing the work they can get credit for that but as of right now they are just another type of trashYes, people who have the moral courage to be believe in reform who were born into a paramilitary command structure led by traditionalists are just the worst
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- NY
Cool cool cool, so let's just fight a war to the death with them and the Hyuga because "if you aren't with us, you're against us".
Remind me how well that approach worked for the last real-world politician to say that?
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- The Void
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- She/Her
You're really bad at understanding me. As of right now they have done nothing valuable to contribute to fighting injustice. So until they do they shouldn't have any position of influence or power in that movement. If they realize the error of their ways and put in actual work then they can be included
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- NY
And I'm not saying to just hand them the reins. I'm saying that I'd prefer we be able to hand them the reins, and we should take the initiative to offer them that opportunity. If they say no, well, so be it.
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- The Void
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Sure we can offer that opportunity after they have started showing they will put in the work. Right now they haven't and so should be kept away from it
Unaligned Player
Agony that desires to meet Extinction
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- Adrift between sanity and madness
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- Shrug
I have a feeling you likely won't care but you are arguing for putting me at the metaphorical and perhaps literal sword right now.
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- NY
In a military dictatorship? I'm not holding anyone to standards that high. Reach out, and if they say yes, trust but verify.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
I am supportive of offering them the opportunity to sell out/backstab/get away from their shitty family once Things Are Already In Motion. [1] This will probably require a lot of effort, but I am sympathetic to their (potentially) genuine plight and willing to aid them if they do wish to reform their clan into Clan Hagoromo of the No Longer Bigoted Jerks and are willing to commit to decisive action to do so.[2]
[1] You might have gotten better progress if you worded things along this perspective(and skipped talking around in circles), assuming it matches up with your general point.
[2] Under this framework, in the "They Betray Us" timeline, theres little to be done to avert disaster for them and we can just yeet them next anyway. *shrugs* doesn't matter to me if we change the order in the smite queue.
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- He/Him
If everything goes as planned the Hagoromo are another puppet of the Nara/Goketsu and it will barely matter who they have in charge
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Random idea. Make an announcement that goketsu are interested in cooperating with any hago ninja who want to topple their leadership.
Some things I'm looking for in plans:
edit: another random idea. checking out what the hyuuga did to the branch clan that split from them. as a ballpark proxy for how much we can do that the hokage will tolerate.
Some things I'm looking for in plans:
- Turning Hago civilians instead of (not after) financially ruining hago civvies. Like bribing hago civvies to not do business with the hago, adopting them into goketsu, etc.
- explicitly saying hazo won't stop the hago election deal payments unless mari and nara say it won't hurt our reputation. worried hazoupilot will do it otherwise.
- telling nara of our plans and coordinating with em
edit: another random idea. checking out what the hyuuga did to the branch clan that split from them. as a ballpark proxy for how much we can do that the hokage will tolerate.
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- Book Fort
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- They/Them
Judging by Yuno and Noburi's reactions in the last chapter, I'm not sure we should make it a public announcement... esp since that'll turn the Hag against each other, further radicalizing the clan (they'll go to yet further extremes to prove their devoutness). We could ask Mari and Keiko to quietly spread the word?